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"self unhooks don't happen very often"
Maybe I'm just unlucky, maybe someone like @Nazzzak is lucky. I really can't tell.
I have played about 20 games of survivor over the last week and a half, my swf ranging from 2-3(majority 2). In probably 12/20 games a random gave up without penalty.
You might say "oh they were being tunneled, camped or the game was already over" that's not a valid argument but only 2/12 games met any of those conditions and I am being generous towards that quote to factor out any bias that could be called out.
It's tiring to oh so barely lose a 3v1 or even clutch out a 2v1 after someone pulls this crap. Neither me or my friends do anything that would could warrant the random to "freely leave the game via self unhook without punishment" were all just doing gens, healing and taking chase. People just give up, that's it, that's all it is, nothing was done to them, nothing remotely toxic or tilting even touched them besides playing the game.
I just can't believe the devs said they had no intention to remove this "mechanic" when it is 95% of the time used to leave the game freely. What's the point of the miniscule dc penalty? Why don't killers get the same bs option? Imagine you load into game as survivor, 2 gens pop and the killer just disappears 1/3 games. How boring would that be?
Yet to a see a single valid argument on this topic. If you do directly respond to me though I would heavily appreciate logic and reasoning on top of your opinions instead of just dropping one sentence and leaving, or even coming back for a reply just to yet again restate your argument with no backing(happens all the time on this forum).
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Probably want to define "valid argument" as someone else has already made a topic about the 4% swing with a whole list of reasons its in the game. This is just a different direction of dislike.
We don't deny that lately people have simply abused the mechanic but there are valid reasons its there such as swinging a match and turning what would be a loss on its head. It makes sure the match doesn't end until the survivors are actually dead and can cause some excitement in matches. There are also perks and offerings that turn this from (what should be) a last ditch effort into a semi-workable way to relieve pressure off the team.
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This is why I am mixed on DC penalties - at least if someone DC's you have a bot but there is an incentive to go next on first hook rather than just DC.
The reality is that you cannot make someone play a match they don't want to, that isn't to justify it as people want out for all kinds of stupid reasons including no obvious reason at all.
I don't know what to suggest as I don't see the first hook mechanic going anywhere soon and you cant possibly make everyone want to play every match. Sad but true
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I mean, I've also said countless times on here that I don't see camping or tunnelling as much as everyone else apparently does. I keep stats on my games, and seeing something in like 10% of my games = not alot to me. Maybe I am just lucky. Not sure what to tell you.
Recent killrates aren't all that different to the ones we got in 2022. I feel killrates would reflect a 'letting go on hook' epidemic, much like in the way I can agree they probably have for Skull Merchant's killrates.
Not sure what else you want me to say, or why I got called out, but I'm sorry my experience is different to yours?
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Alright.
"Turning a loss on it's head" sure that can happen but realistically the chance is so low and such an uncommon use for it that it doesn't matter. It can cause excitement in a match but what happens most of the time regarding the 4%? You guessed it, leaving the game. The devs probably have the same idea as you, but the average player doesn't have inkling of your idea.
Perks:
Deli: Would work the same.
Slippery meat: just as outdated as the the mechanic itself.
Can't think of anything else.
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"The reality is that you cannot make someone play a match they don't want to, that isn't to justify it as people want out for all kinds of stupid reasons including no obvious reason at all."
This is correct at a base level but not informed. I have played league of legends for 11 years now. You leave the game? First strike in that regard is two weeks suspension. You afk? You get two chances within months or you get bare minimum two weeks. You troll and via stats plus reports get suspended for you guessed it two weeks minimum. You can make someone screw themselves for not playing the game. They always have the choice to leave just like league but it's possible to make repeats suffer for their actions. This notion in the dbd community has gone to far and is flat out wrong.
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As far as we know letting go on hook directly affects kill rates, not to say it's as prevalent as I've seen it in my last 20, that would be presumptuous of me.
I didn't expect you to say anything, I @td you because I have repeatedly seen you say you haven't experienced this phenomenon much. That's it. I didn't at you to call you out, but only because I've read your replies and nothing else.
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Disregarding it outright would simply remove a feature (thats been here since atleast 2017) people can use and there are ways to increase it from 4% [had to do the math and its 32% with 6 tries at maximum]. Your of the opinion that it doesn't mater and thats fine, but your opinion isn't the only one that maters here since this affects everyone and we personally don't want things removed, especially when its because the players are the root cause and not the mechanic itself. There have been ways others have said to tweek it to not be abusable which is more what the devs should do than outright remove it, but thats our own opinion on that mater.
"Up the anti" increases luck by 12% and technically the upcoming "Wicked" uses the same method as deliverance unless changed.
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We kinda wana poke this too.
League is a "more competitive" or "serious" game (don't really know another way to describe). In dbd there are ways to screw around while still playing normally (red herring may intentionally or not screw over teammates, you can throw rocks at things to attract the killer, you can put yourself on the ground to try and heal, etc) while in league we cant think of anything that fits without screwing over the team (sans feeding the poro). Another thing is league is a much bigger game than dbd and can afford to be harsher with its punishments. How many people would stay here if their internet went out and got suspended for 2 weeks?
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Agreed. I haven’t played league or even seen gameplay outside a couple clips but their punishments sound overly harsh and almost outright unfair. I don’t think these type of punishments would go over well at all with the community this games built.
Like 2 weeks for a disconnect that could potentially be something out of their control?
You got to remember that sometimes life just gets in the way. Imagine getting suspended from a game for 2 weeks because your baby was crying and needed attention or any other of lives various issues that can pop up at a moments notice. Just last night I DCd from a game because my girlfriend came home crying and she deserves my attention and time way more than the 4 other people playing a video game did. DbD should not and never has been taken that seriously.
Sometimes people are just having a rough time too. People play video games as a form of escapism, they want to enjoy said escapism. If you had a bad day and wanted it to get a little better by playing some video games, it’s not exactly enjoyable to get someone who can clearly be out to give you a bad time.
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Even if it means interfering with other players' escapism? Regardless of the degree of punishment, it is absurd to say that there are no penalties that should be meted out.
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Yeah except BHVR have to reach a balance between reasonable punishment and negatively impacting queues with excessively long bans.
If you remove people from the queue you either increase matchmaking wait times, or in the case of DBD what I suspect is that the quality of matchmaking goes down as it will try to get you in game rather than make you wait a long time for compatible MMR team mates.
I don't think excessively banning people will work, they will simply play something else instead and if you hand out long bans they will have no choice but to play something else. I do not think this is the way forward with the DBD community, it simply wont work and will have negative long term consequences imo
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I never said no punishment should be dealt, I simply said leagues are too harsh
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“I @td you because I have repeatedly seen you say you haven't experienced this phenomenon much. That's it. I didn't at you to call you out, but only because I've read your replies and nothing else.”
Still tho, was a pretty big @
Kinda pulled her in to the discussion from the get-go in a less than flattering way.
There are more positive ways to voice the intent and incorporate others into the mix; or just not.
Just sayin
fwiw, self unhooks don’t happen very often in my matches either
…Guess we’re both Lucky, Nazzzak and myself🤷🏼♀️
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At least from my experience, self-unhooks depend on the killer and their playstyle quite a bit. Dull merchant for example almost always has self unhooks but I've very rarely experienced that against someone like huntress.
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Because then you'd have to change perks like Deliverance, Slippery Meat and the luck offerings? Idk.
I personally just BM someone if they are killing themselves on hook and don't bother to rescue them. Does it irritate me? Yes, but the game is pretty much a clown fiesta.
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The mechanic needs to go. There's too much RNG in the game as is. And the devs need to take an honest, objective look at what self-unhooks positively add to the game vs the negatives they introduce.
Someone might love the mechanic. Cool. They might think it's a comeback mechanism for survivors that provides a memorable moment and swings trials. But that's not how the mechanic is being used by players. Similar to MMR. It's been explained ad infinitum. We understand what the devs think it does. But that's not how players are using it.
The 4% is rare, and it's not even wanted in many cases. If I'm trying to give a teammate hatch because the game is effectively over, the last thing I want is to 4%. It's actually going to irritate me if I get stuck in the trial longer at that point and I have to lose 5 minutes from now instead of immediately.
The mechanic serves almost no relevant purpose in higher level play in a 4v1 or 3v1. It's used to get around the d/c penalty. I genuinely can't recall the last time a 4% turned the game around for me. It's not memorable. The downsides don't warrant the mechanic being there. Keep it around in a 2v1 so trials can actually end (something the game struggles with).
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That's rough. I see some hook suicides too, don't get me wrong but for me it's nowhere near as bad. I see it in maybe 1/4 of my matches (sometimes more, sometimes less).
But I agree that something should be done. ScottJund actually suggested something that I think could improve this situation. Instead of being allowed to dc / suicide instantly, how about there is a countdown before you can actually do it? Many times, people that are unhooked after trying to suicide on hook still play the game, so it's likely that many just do it in the heat of the moment. This suggestion would however give them time to reflect and calm down before they ruin the match.
It wouldn't fix everything but I know that feeling when something absolutely doesn't work your way and you just want to end the game but then you calm down and keep on playing.
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It's just unrealistic to expect BHVR to rework the 4% mechanic as well as all the perks and items that would need to be changed.
BHVR could try and police it, but that would require resources for just that, which would be a lot of man hours considering how often it happens.
There's a bunch of things I would like to see changed in this game, but I don't bother asking unless there's some chance it might actually happen. If perks being displayed in the lobby will take years to implement, how long would it take them to fix this?
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It's not personal and I made that very clear. Any reasonable person would understand that. Does @ing them hurt them emotionally in any way? I've seen them say that often, I'm essentially contrasting my own argument with what I've seen to be their experience via this forum. That is a very common way to write arguments and they happened to be a good example as well as them self proclaiming to be a casual player in every way.
It's simply how you make valid arguments, there was no ill intent at all. I @ed them because they are the most relevant person on this forum I've seen regarding this discussion, should I just not bring in an extra resource? Was it that traumatizing in my attempt to make an argument that sent no negativity in their direction?
The first step to better games is to remove consistent problem childs. If you remove people who consistently solo lose the game for one side, eventually matchmaking will equal out for the better. Those people will play something else or eat the penalty, that's the point. You don't allow game ruining bhvr to exist FOR THE BETTER, not because I am so hateful.
Most of the games I am referring to were against acceptable killers, with very little tunneling/ camping. Even if they did tunnel/ camp we were winning the game and the randoms weren't on the receiving end of it. Only 2 games out of the around 20+ were just gg early on and guess what, no one "took a chance" in those games. One game me and my duo literally got through two gens and were at end game to find no way out, we would have won if someone didn't just let go for 0 reason.
As always you are right, truly the most unbiased and knowledgeable vet on this forum from my pov.
Yep, for sure. Not sure if I mentioned it in this post but in league people will say surrender @ 15, 4 min in and then go on to play the game normally seconds later. DBD simply has a bad playerbase compiled with the fact that the game lets them leave, it's just a bad combo.
Rework the 4%? You mean remove the mechanic, change slippery meat to another meaningless perk design, leave deli the same and luck offerings can just be deleted as they are only bloat for the bloodweb anyway.
Ok.
You haven't seen or played league which can be far more tilting than this game in it's current state.
I'm not saying the penalty needs to be as harsh but yes if you leave the game in any way lets say 4 times in one month that should be a week. Life gets in the way but at some point you realize when you should be pressing play on the game within the context of your life right?
I get the bad day thing, I get the life thing. At some point it's just your fault for pressing the ready button at the wrong time.
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Alright, we removed a feature that I'd guess 95% of the means someone is intent on throwing the game or the game is already a minute away from being over.
I have clips of 4% when it's literally not possible to get off hook from a teamate just because of the game state, not due to poor teamates. I enjoyed those moments but they literally don't matter, the ability to 4% only servers as a detriment to the game and community.
Imagine for a moment that survivors could just kill each other for the lolz right? That'd be funny for 3 games with friends. But then you realize you lose everytime that happens even in a full party. A different scenario but the same result as someone giving up on hook.
The devs have spent too much time focusing on rng that at this point only serves to disrupt the real gameplay. Make everything consistent, the rng of tiles, survivor spawns and 4%s doesn nothing but swing the game instantly to one side so overwhelmingly that It's an instant loss.
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I think part of the issue is that if you remove the self unhook option, most of these people are either going to just AFK or actually go out of the way to sandbag your team. I’ve witnessed this multiple times when you save somebody who’s trying to kill themselves on hook.
I’m honestly not sure where I stand on this issue in terms of which one is worse to have as a teammate.
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Should we remove things because of the players? No. Fix or tweak sure but removing things because people can't be decent shouldn't be a thing. The 4% itself is not detrimental on its own.
If they don't matter then why bring it up?
We'd imagine that either everyone wises up or it happens enough that the devs tweak the mechanic (shocking) or everyone leaves. The difference is that a survivor is removing another survivor from the game, not themselves. The result is different because one person is removing the agency of another, this is probably more equivalent to the killer tunneling than swinging.
Tell us what is "the real gameplay". There's enough RNG here that it's effectively part of the gameplay. If things get consistent then things get predictable then things get boring really damn fast. Currently there's already a lot of consistency with how people play. [Think you might have triggered him Abit...] Add to that no, it's not instant loss one way or another. We don't deny it can swing a game one way or the other, but calling it an instant loss is false.
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