Dead Dawg Saloon (Grave of Glenvale)
We'd like to know what you think about Dead Dawg Saloon map, part of the Grave of Glenvale realm. Please leave any feedback you have concerning this map as a comment on this thread. Your feedback can be as brief or detailed as you'd like!
Dead Dawg Saloon (Grave of Glenvale) 215 votes
Comments
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The main building gen is extremely annoying as the killer and the main itself has two good windows even if you break the walls if you go against a good survivor he can "abuse" the RNG, my only problem with this map is the main building, overall the map is fine I think
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This is one of my 3 most hated maps in the game. Chasing survivors through dead dawg main is the least interactive experience you can have in dead by daylight. Every survivor knows the loop by heart, it's practically impossible to mind game, and it just wastes an extraordinary amount of time with no counterplay. There are two mandatory breakable walls in main that just shouldn't exist. Survivors can just see through the shack walls making mindgames impossible. The only reason this map is killer sided is because the gen spawns are really bad.
The entire map practically plays itself. Every game on dead dawg feels like it's exactly the same. It desperately needs much much much much much more variation.
The one thing I like about DDS is that the shack has a breakable wall. I wish more shacks had that.
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The map itself is good and rewards more skilled players with its' tile design, but has two problems: extremely strong main building and the tightest 3 gen in the entire game that can spawn on the gallows side. Here's the example of the 3 gen this map is capable of spawning:
So the best way to fix this map's flaws would be to remove the ability to spawn setups like this and nerf the main building.
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This map is ok overall. Most of the map is slightly killer sided since it is smaller than most and a lot of the loops are weaker once you break the walls, except for the main building which can easily waste a lot of the killer's time so that kind of makes up for it. Plus it does take time to break walls on this map since there are quite a few of them.
It may be a good thing if the main building got some adjustments to give it more mindgames and be less of an autopilot loop for survivor, but then depending on what you do with the building, other parts of the map might need some minor buffs for survivor to make up for that, or else the map might end up killer sided.
Gen spawns around and behind the gallows can be a little rough for survivors sometimes and create a tight 3-gen, such as these:
Especially because this is in a back corner of the map it can end up being a pretty unsafe area later on in the game which can make this 3 gen difficult to break even with the new system.
Shack being weaker than normal on this map is a good thing though btw, with this map being one of the smaller ones and shack being fairly easily accessible in a location near the center, shack would be extremely strong on this map (stronger than on other maps) if it was a normal shack.
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i think that outside of the main building, which can be very strong vs some killers (until walls are broken) this map doesnt offer much safety for survivors. ik the entire right side (if we take saloon is left) is windows and pallets across the entire map, but none of them feel very good
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the best map in the entire game.
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Lockers shouldn’t spawn in narrow walkways, where it’s impossible to avoid the lockers while chasing a survivor. It just encourages coordinated head-on SWFs to purposely send killers to this map, so they can see how many times they can head-on the killer.
And the main building for this map is filled with unavoidable lockers.
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The poll votes are kind of shocking me, this is easily one of if not the most killer sided map in the entire game.
Yes, main buildings strong, but if you simply don’t chase there or break the walls you just win the vast majority of the time.
Smallest map in the game that’s made even smaller by its lack of safety on the edges, not to mention the easiest shack play in the game with the breakable wall.
Regression perks shine on this map, tight gen spawns, almost every killer shines on this map, etc.
If this maps not killer sided, what is?
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I probably won't be wrong if i'll say that it's most broken main building in the game. At least on of them. But i love this map on both sides.
Main building should be significantly weaker, 3 gen behind gallow should be wider, filler pallets on two tiny rocks on the same field should be slightly stronger, because now it's useless even for attempt to stun killer. And it will be in a perfect spot imo.
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Temple of Purgation and Rancid? Whole area before the main is very good for survivors, some of my best and longest chases as survivor were here, you can chain loops here long enough, there are many not too weak and not too strong pallets. It was killer sided, when there was nothing in the field behind gallow like two or three years ago, but now it's in a good spot. Only thing i agree with is a breakable door on shack, maybe they can get rid of this.
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The most killer-sided map of the entire game, but obviously trolls are gonna vote for survivors.
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Okay, let’s say those two are worse. Two maps out of 40 are worse than Dead Dawg?
There are for sure chainable tiles on this map but they’re all on one side and a bunch of LOS blockers to let you catch them off guard, knock out a couple of the pallets and you genuinely have little to nothing to worry about.
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You didn't ask which map is worse than Saloon, you asked which other map is killer sided, if not this.
knock out a couple of the pallets and you genuinely have little to nothing to worry about.
Yeah, this is how gameplay in this game works. If killer destroys resources, area will be unsafe. What's wrong with it?
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They’re unsafe even if the killer doesn’t destroy them. This map has the 2nd highest kill rate avg in the game. It’s 2nd to midwich.
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This map feels fairly balanced to me. I definitely play more killer than survivor but I'm never upset when I load into this map. First of all, visually it's amazing. For gameplay it definitely feels unique, it's structures aren't obnoxious (except mayyyybe the main building) and feels like a good change of pace from many other maps. It's got it's unique staircase buildings and the gallows which bring some variety, and none of the pallets are too strong. The breakable wall at shack is also very unique and nice as a killer.
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Yes that is how gameplay in this game works lol, the tiles you talk about can be strong when chained but unsafe once one or two of the pallets are thrown / walls are broken depending on your RNG.
To piggyback off what Ayo said, it has the second highest kill-rate in the game, if that’s a balanced or survivor sided map then my question stands for what maps are killer sided. The goal posts have clearly been shifted if this is the case.
Apply the slightest fraction of macro gameplay on this map and you win.
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According to Nigtlight, it's only on 15th place, last official stats were long time ago, if i remember it correctly. And i don't think stats show that much, when we are talking about maps. Like most balanced maps like Storehouse or Ironworks have the same escape rate as Saloon. But obviously killer sided Rancid even higher escape rate. And Tompson house somehow has a one of the highest escape rate in the game. That's why i don't take "oh but stats" аrgument too serious, when we discuss maps.
Okay, let's pretend it's killer sided. What changes should it get?
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Less tight gen spreads and a little more consistency with filler spawns. There's some variations of this map that are just huge deadzones in the corners depending on the RNG you get. Adding fillers to the edges of the map like Autohaven would not provide much safety, but would at least increase the size of the map as the current version is smaller than it already is due to the corners being dead.
Very small maps like this should not have too much filler variation as if you don't get them to spawn you're just stuck running the fixed structures which already aren't the best outside the main building.
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Big fan of western movies and such so I will always have this map as one of my favorites. Create another western map yes please! Cowboy survivor with cowboy hats let's go!
Survivor sided or killer sided I don't care but probably killer sided since it's not a huge map?
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As ridiculously strong as the main building is, and I mean, played well by a Survivor and it can lose the Killer the game, ridiculous. The gen spawns on the map can be heavily in the killer favour so all things weighed up, I'd say its balanced.
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Dead Dawg Saloon is considered one of the most balanced maps by many, it is quite the peculiar outdoors map so analyzing its issues is indeed harder. The two outliers of the map are the generators spread and the main building.
The main building has several very strong windows that require removing breakable walls and even then they are still troublesome. On the other hand it has 2 guaranteed pallets (in the front and in the back) and 2 that are inconsistent and don't spawn all the time. The generator is not worth defending as most killers, unless it is done remotely through certain perks.
The generators don't always spawn in a predictable pattern, sometimes there are quite many on platforms, sometimes you only see the ones in main building and gallows elevated; sometimes there is even a generator in the middle of the road between shack and main building. The biggest problem is found in the filler loop area near gallows, where a perimeter of generators can be defended sometimes, but with the recent update to combat such strategy maybe the greater evil is oriented towards how easy it is to defend a hook from afar in that area that is so open and cornered. The road is also a relevant hook defending spot where many territorial playstyles flourish around.
The shack has several gaps that allow the survivor to keep track of the killer and prevent mindgames. On the same note, there is a non sloped step around the outer corner of shack that is near the road and gallows, which gets players of both roles stuck at times. While most pallets aren't completely safe, the fact that the killer has to break so many walls adds up like if they were breaking safe pallets.
The many bushes that can be found around the map allow very passive and uninteractive stealth playstyles from the survivors, which can be a problem depending on the killer's tools.
Main building could receive some adjustments that make the windows more interactive and it could also get all 4 of its pallets guaranteed instead of leaving two of them to luck. The shack should get its minor issues addressed.
The area around gallows could maybe get some structure like a mazetile to reduce the hook-gen defending strategies around it. The over saturation of bushes should be reduced.
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Main is very survivor sided and main as well as rest of map have too many breakable walls (which are kinda boring/not interactive). Otherwise the map is finde balance-wise. I like the breakable wall in shack and that shack plays a bit differently because of this. gates can be annoyingly far from eachother
aesthetics are fine, would like to see new maps for this realm! Music in main is cool, vultures are great, the sky is beautiful (though not really creepy)
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Other than that 3gen behind the gallows, I like this map a lot. The area behind the main building is pretty barren, I think you could move a gen from the 3gen and put it by the outhouse to lessen the grip killers have given the size of the map
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Like this map regardless of which side I'm playing. It's not the most interesting but honestly considering how bad one way or the other some maps are... yeah...
I too wouldn't mind more maps in this realm but on the other hand it'd mean that offerings wouldn't always take us here. However I don't like offerings as a concept in general. Too easy to abuse.
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All it needs really are changes to the main building, remove the breakable walls that you HAVE to break to start with and it'd be a bit better.
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I Love this map its my Favorite map in the entire game as both sides, the only annoying thing about this map is the main building, the breakable walls that you gotta break especially the ones next to a window but it's a great map overall
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And that's why I write under each maps posts that there should be some stability in the number of pallets. It's stupid that, depending on RNG, same map can strongly lean towards one side, and the other time to other, like Coal Tower. So i agree with consistency with fillers.
In my comment below i said that 3 gen behind gallow should be wider, i agree, but others i have no problem with. And i don't think it's possible to spread them even more.
Fillers on the edges? Maybe somewhere here, but other edges already have a pallets. Don't think it will make much different, but ok, i'm not against it.
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Main building effectively being an infinite against M1 Killers doesn't feel good. At the same time, it feels like 90% of the map is a deadzone (outskirts and gallows side are much too weak), so it feels like you can only run main or windmill as Survivor. Make the gallows side of the map playable as Survivor, and swap the upstairs breakable wall/window locations. (see picture)
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It's amazing how many "balanced" maps are "this map feels awful for killers AND survivors" not "this map feels good for everyone."
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Great map, I would spread out gen spawns more and nerf main a bit tho. But honestly other than the odd extremely brutal 3 gen the map is fine as is.
Main is strong but you can easily avoid running it as killer. Would again have to be nerfed if you plan to spread out gens a bit to fix the god 3 gen that spawns near shack.
You guys should 100% reduce the amount of breakable walls tho.
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The issue of the map is that it's balance gets decided by how the killer plays. If he decides to hold the 3gen in the outskirts it Is usually really killer sided, however with the introduction of the anti 3 Gen mechanic this may not be the case anymore. On the other hand if survivors take the chase to the main building you just lose, the structure is way to strong, a normal m1 killer will take minutes to get a hit and the Gen up there offers so much time to pre run that you should never get hit like this unless the killer has a good chase power.
So to counter this problem tune down the main building, add some more windows in the outskirts so the map does not dry out that easily over there, maybe tune down the town loops, in case it is too strong otherwise.
And please for the love of God make it so people cannot just sit in one of the many bushes and just turn invisible, it is just so dumb. You just don't have the time to check each and every bush, it is tedious it is annoying and just boring. I know stealth is part of the game, but it should at least need some form of skill... The bushes are just too easy to hide in and too many... Sometimes you get stuck and don't even think of it as a survivor but just bad collision.
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Whatever you do, please keep the breakable walls. I like this map for challenges where you have to break walls/pallets. I know there is also The Game, but I prefer this one as it's not pallet heaven.
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To be honest the Breakable Walls in the Main Building are kind of useless in most situations. If the Survivor runs upstairs and vaults, if they go right, it doesn't matter if you vault or go through the broken Wall.
I really like the Breakable Wall in Shack. Adds some variety.
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Main building very strong for survivor
However, the map is very favorable for the 3gen situation.
Need adjustments for both sides
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I think that the map is too small. It’s way too easy for the killer to patrol each generator while it’s too difficult for survivors to escape the killer and get them off their back. Making the map bigger and adding more buildings on the outskirts (or just something to loop the killer with on the outside of the main area + generators being more spread apart) would help tremendously :)
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Map with a very strange RNG, that can lead to a very annoying main building or a super ridiculous 3-gen. Also, remove some of the breakable walls of the main building, the 90% of the matches the killer will break them, so remove them in the first place, its just a waste of time for the killer.
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This map is one of the most balanced, imo. Main building is strong but as soon as walls are destroyed, it's more bearable for killers. The houses loop are confusing but it makes them fun. It has a long alley with clear line of sight so it has some risky areas for gens and safer ones. Only part that I don't really like is the desert, it feels empty (like a desert, duh, yeah I know) so it's not all too interesting. It has a breakable wall in the shack as well so it's quite unique in this regard. I think this map should remain untouched OR maybe could use some variations because it's one of the players' favorites!
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Amazing map with very interactive loops, super fun and balanced to play on for both roles. It's also a pretty small map which is great for low mobility killers. However, it has a couple of glaring flaws.
One, theres a three gen that can be extremely favoured towards the killer in the gallows area by shack. It can feel impossible to get anything done there if the killer decides to protect those three. Not only are they close together, but the loops there also pretty killer sided. Add stronger loops there and split up the gens a bit, and it'll fix the problem.
Two, main building. For strong chase killers such as wesker, huntress, chucky, etc. this place isn't a problem. However it IS a problem for m1 killers due to the strong setups it can have. The three windows can be pretty oppressive and aren't very hard to loop. Additionally, theres a section on the top floor with a bunch of breakable walls that don't serve much of a purpose. If a survivor vaults there, its a deadend. There's no incentive to interact with that section at all for either side.
So, heres an idea. Make that area a bit more accessible by removing the breakable walls there, and then add a breakable wall on one of the walls facing the corner of the map, right above the wooden pathway and next to the two staircases.
This way, the oppressive window on the top floor isn't as good, as the killer could take a different path to cut them off. It could keep survivors on their toes and generally make the building a lot more fair for killers lacking a chase power.
Apart from those two issues, great map.
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Great aesthetics. Main building is crap to play on, needs work.
Every shack should have a breakable wall like Dead Dawg's.
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Small map. allows for easy gen control and 3 gens. Mainbuild is very strong for survivors but rest of map can be on the weaker side, making it theres no point for the killer to chase to main most cases. Makes for let interesting gameplay loop of survivors always running to main soon as a chase starts.
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Dead dawg feels pretty good imo, the size is nice and doesn't feel too strong for either side, even the main building. I think this map is a good example of how to do multiple buildings right (looking at badham) while also doing a daytimeish lighting right
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I think it favors killers because of how small it is and how close some gens are, but despite that, I actually dislike playing on it as killer because of two things:
- Too many breakable walls, and unlike what happens on other maps, you HAVE to break most of these walls to be able to properly play around some loops.
- The main building is really annoying. It has a gen that is pretty much impossible to properly defend if you're not playing a killer with special mobility. Survivors will have a huge headstart on you and run away before you can get close to the gen, there are two breakable walls that you just HAVE to break (one beside the window at the lower floor, the other beside the window at the top of the stairs) and one that you don't always need to break, but it can slow you down a little if you don't (the one beside the window near the gen). Also, the bigger loop around the bulding is pretty strong even after the wall is broken.
There's another thing that is not so easily noticeable when playing killer, but it can benefit SWFs: it's quite easy to track the killer from the top of the main building, because it has a good view of most of the map. The killer can move stealthily behind and inside the other buildings, but will be easily spotted and tracked when near the middle of the map. That means that, if survivors are playing with comms, anyone at the top of the building can tell all the others were the killer is going a lot of the time.
So, to sum it up, it's a killer-sided map, but I don't think playing killer on it is fun because of those annoying things.
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