Tunneling! Because reasons!
Does it have a place in the game?! Do our heroes have what it takes to evade the ravenous psychopath?!
So, the question is, do you feel tunneling is hurting the game as a whole? Just fine? Need more like cowbell?
A lot of players say tunneling is used because it gets the best results. Do you agree? Does this matter for the overall health of the game?
If you want tunneling gone due to feelings and such, sorry, you won't find that here. Dbd is not for the faint of heart. Please head over to the dbd roblox forum.
Lastly, when you play (Either side), do you play to win, have fun, or try to have both? Thanks!
Comments
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i love how you worded this as a fun story
id say it hurts the game as it has made many people stop playing it as a whole
killer/surv i play for fun i couldnt care less if i win or not
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Every killer strategy is just compromising the game. None of this was intended by design but just became more and more fluently during the course of actions taken to "develop" the game. Wrong decisions all along the way to now, ignorance paired with greenness. Somehow trying to fix it just made it worse.
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oke im not sure what you mean by this.
kinda sounds like killers should not have strategys aka they should be for the survivors entertainment.
not saying thats your opinion just that it sounds like that
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Let me elaborate. Tunneling isn't fun, for survivors or killers. It is severely efficient as they simply pick a new player or weak link, and bury them. Thats real talent and skill, let me assure you. One cannot simply tunnel without the skill needed to appease the Entity.
Strats for killers are around, but no one will use them because why would you be less efficient? I get why they do it and I myself don't mind as I can hold my own. New players and most others cant.
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BHVR coercing killers to care more about the destination than the journey in their matches has probably irreversibly damaged the expectations of that playerbase.
I forsee there will always be immense pushback to any nerf to total victories and people will always try to make an efficient path to 4king.
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I think my 'strategy' of doing 8 hooks before moving onto kills isn't compromising the game but I know that's not what you mean :D. The recent change to three gen and to face camping is unintentionally teaching more players how to play the game efficiently.
Also I'm not sure that certain things weren't intended. After all Almo who made a lot of decisions early on is... quite honestly... well... how do I say this without getting my post deleted... missing some tools in the shed? Maybe that's nice enough? I don't know.
In any case, anybody who says 'I think Insidious Bubba is really quite cool' should have nothing to do with gameplay design. Yet they did and their influence can be still felt in numerous parts of the game which are absolutely miserable.
Tunnelling is hand over fist the strongest strategy. Only a fool would argue otherwise. Killers don't need to do it to win, but there's no denying it is the most optimal for two simple reasons. 3 hooks across 3 survivors is 6 health states and nobody eliminated. 3 hooks on one survivor is 4 health states and one survivor removed from the game. The fewer survivors there are, the slower everything else is which increases the chances of the killer winning.
However it's equally obvious it's awful for the games health. Only reason DBD succeeds the way it does is lack of competition. The base concept is absolutely excellent but the potential is absolutely squandered for the sake of greed and constantly dumping new content on the game every few months and not giving the game the polish it desperately needs.
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I'm not here to argue a point other than the fact that DBD has had like a dozen competitors and they all died
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True but I didn't get into that because I'm trying to cut down on my post length :D. Some were unlucky but most made pretty bad mistakes and some were just overtaken by greed either pressing their customers too hard or not giving the game the support it needed. It is still staggering to me that there isn't real competition for DBD.
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I have no problems with tunneling being possible, but the current state of the game is making the situation miserable.
Back in the day we had DS, and survivors had more resources to work with. Tunneling was possible, but there was a risk, and that is how it should be.
Now there is very little you can do if the killer decides to eliminate you as soon as possible. I'm hoping the upcoming DS buff (and it better be a buff) fixes this problem.
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Exactly. I remember the time when people were afraid of DS, including me because this perk really did its job well done, the killer could still tunnel you, but a good player with the old DS could be quite risky.
The tunneling situation is so miserable that I want even the most broken version of DS back ( 1 minute immunity without conpicuous action).
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Id say it belongs in the game because otherwise its a truckload of work to actually balance removing it without just saying well now you have to play nice and lose anyway have fun because matches move pretty fast in dbd and removing one of the best ways to pressure survivors (just having less of them) is a big gap that affects almost every match depending on the definition you use
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Nah.. DS doesn't need to be buffed. It needs a complete rework into something else and it's current effect - with 5secs - needs to be basekit. It's not healthy to be forced to use a perk to counter tunneling
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Now THIS is a helluva idea! Well, I've not really thought about it. But I'm sure I'll feel the same way after some thought lol.
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Tunneling sadly does have a place here (it's an elimination game after all) and our heroes often don't have what it takes to escape the violent killer. Many changes were made to make playing as a "normal" killer more bearable, but the side effect was it made tunneling easier too.
As a whole tunneling is probably hurting the game just due to sheer rampancy (though it's atleast going down recently). It should be a option, just not the go to one. It definitely needs more cowbells just ask our heroes here.
It doesn't always give the best results but it's the easiest way to usually get the best results.
We have feelings?
We play to have fun (though we play rough) and as long as it's exciting we don't care about the outcome.
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Fundamentally, tunnelling is just a name people give to a particular aspect of player agency. It's a game about chasing people, and part of that has to include the choice of who, when, and how. The moment the game starts dictating any of those three is the moment it may as well just do the other two and eliminate the player entirely. You can mitigate the effectiveness of tunnelling, but it's mechanically impossible to remove it.
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If a killer is unable to target a single survivor in the worst of situations then the game will be broken at its core.
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I believe people should play how they want and use the tools that are given to them by the developers. This includes proxy camping (penalty for face camping now) and soft tunneling (because they can't down someone instantly at base kit). It use to be a lot worse. They're trying to make it better - but there is only so much they can do. It took me awhile but I now go into each game as survivor knowing that me or someone on my team is going to be tunneled. It's just part of the game and you have to adapt. So I'll try and take hits, or if they are on death hook and I can still be hooked without dying, then I will go down for them and take that hook state for them. However, solo queue - good luck trying to get your team to do this for you....
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It falls into that unfortunate state of being oppressively strong while also being the most efficient way of winning as killer.
I sadly can't think of any way to rectify it without making miserable for either side. Limited amount of hook states shared between survivors? Then some unlucky sod gets insta-killed on hook because the reserves ran out, and that's not fun. More basekit advantages for survivors? Then it becomes too one-sided and punishes killers just for trying to play the game. Hooks that teleport when you linger too close, like the cage? Then defending a hook becomes nigh impossible.
It's a very, very difficult problem to solve.
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I think tunneling does have a place in the game. Just not as the go to strategy in every macth.
If a survivor is stupid enough to sit on a gen right next to the killer, then they should pay the price for that. However, you shouldn't go into a game knowing that whoever goes down first will be tunneled immediately. That's not fun to play against and in my opinion playing like this is also quite tedious.
There should be more incentives for the killer to go after different survivors. Perks are a step in the right direction but they can't completely fix the base game issue. So there need to be base kit changes on both sides to incentivise killers to go after different survivors.
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At this stage tunneling is just a blanket term used by survivors when they get killed.
You can tunnel or go out your way to make sure you don't tunnel and still be abused by salty survivors in end game chat.
Most often I'll get called a tunneler when I hook someone, leave the hook, start a chase with someone else and down them as the other survivor is being rescued, hook the new survivor and then look for a new survivor. If you happen to be the unhooked survivor and I see you I'm going for you. You've had you opportunity to escape and heal up. I literally done every step in the survivor rule book and you still think it's tunnelling.
Also if you let one of your team mates go to 2nd stage and they happen to die after a few hooks that's not tunneling.
I probably play 80/20 killer/survivor ratio. When I play survivor you might get 1/5 killers that actually tunnel. So when I see these claims of people getting tunneled every game for 30 games I just don't believe it. The problem is the people making these claims having completely delusional criteria for what warrants being tunneled.
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If you mean tunneling as In camping the hook going after the same survivor to secure 1 kill while putting no pressure on gens so the other survivors can get an easy win with no chase time making the game boring for everyone then yes this sucks.
But if I'm playing killer the "meta" way and have got a few hooks survivors have done couple gens and I'm giving the option to chase a survivor that's on death hook vs a survivor that's not, I'm going to get that sacrifice, even if survivors are taking protection hits or running around injured unfortunately the risk of leaving a survivor alive to do gens vs getting them out of the game can mean the slowdown difference between getting a 3-4k vs all the survivors escapeing.
The real "issue" I see is the games not designed to reward killers for paceing out and hooking survivors evenly it's up to survivors to decide who plays stealthy who takes on the chase ect.. which can be extremely hard in soloQ's and ya even doing so survivors can waist time taking protection hits to ultimately get slugged an having the other survivor killed anyway. But that's just the game most of its RNG baisd anyway.
Plus If you wanted to make it so survivors can only get hooked evenly then you'd need to balance with more slow down which would make games take way longer and nobody wants hour long matches.
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Tunnelling is quick and easy way to win. This wouldn't be so bad if the counter was equally easy. However, countering tunneling is hard and this is in my opinion the main issue: doing it very easy, as it requires no specific perks, killers or add ons and can be done at any time with minimal skill requirements. Meanwhile in order to counter it, you need specific perks, a good map, you need to be a skilled looper and ideally you'd have teammates who take hits for you.
Also, to answer the main question, yes, I do think it is not good for the game. As explained above, even a completely new killer can tunnel pretty effectively, but new survivors stand practically no chance to do anything against it, which probably turns a lot of new players away.
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pretty sure its a thing people revert to when people are showing toxicity or there being gen rushed
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Tunneling:
It's needed in the comp game because 92% of killers can't win against strong survivors. In normal dbd it helps if the survivors bring overpowered stuff. Tunneling usually achieves the best results. From the killers point of view. As a survivor it sucks if the team isn't good, but other than that I think survivors have enough counterplay for tunneling.
I'd be happy if tunneling wasn't necessary sometimes, but right now weaker killers don't have enough time to hook everyone.
I play both sides, mostly Survivor, and the feelings of playing Killers and Survivor are very different. As a Survivor, I can bring everything and still easily win the game if my teammates have some smarts. As a Killer, I don't have the luxury of bringing what I want to play and bringing perks that let me really play the game.
So the feeling of playing Survivor is very relaxed while having fun.
While Killer is very stressful, very competitive and very frustrating
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I do feel that it's hurting the game.
I feel that it's causing so many different issues that I couldn't possibly begin to explain how they all interlink.
We need a Forum Debate Podcast or something; I swear I can't type as well as I talk.
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It would be chaotic, but also pretty fun.
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It's been something I've been thinking about for a while.
I don't have the means nor the knowledge to do it; but I do think it'd be fun and would likely encourage some better arguments, free from the misunderstanding that text can bring.
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I'm a little conflicted on it.
I think it's probably the worst part of playing survivor at the moment. It's pretty unhealthy for the game and really not fun for everyone else in the match.
I think some bigger changes to the game would be nice -- remove collision from survivors with endurance, longer endurance off the hook, not skipping to the next hook stage if the survivor is rehooked consecutively within a certain time frame, more rewards to the killer for spreading hooks (Grim Embrace, BBQ, and Pain Resonance are fantastic examples of healthy perks imo).
On the other hand, almost nobody brings any of the perks that help make it not the best and easiest option to do. DS + Off the Record + being half decent at being chased should make the killer lose if they tunnel you outside of a couple of S tier killers like Nurse, Blight, or Spirit unless your teammates just aren't touching generators.
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Remove tunneling by survivors being on deathhook by default right in the beginning, give them 3 or 4 health states to compensate. That way even camping would be removed mechanically from the game.
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Wait... are you saying DBD Roblox doesn't have tunneling? That they care about other people's feelings? Damn, I'm playing the wrong version of this game!!!
As a proper response, I don't notice tunneling as much as some others say they do. Even when I do get "tunnelled", I can say there's a significant amount of "wrong place/ wrong time" moments, where I have unluckily or stupidly crossed paths with them, and most quite rightly take advantage of that.
Of course, then there are those trials where it's very obvious that's what is going on. And sure, it could feel annoying, but in those cases (which don't happen nearly that often) it's time to switch the mindset to using it as adapting to chases and practicing more. Tunnelling doesn't mean they'll get you. It means they can try.
What I would say though is that people going for the unhook do need to be more careful of getting the save. No need to save a.s.a.p, and they're fine to hang about a bit. Unhooking them in front of the killer is asking for it and should only be done if time is really short. Likewise, body-blocking with the hook endurance will often result in the killer targetting that unhooked player, so cries of "tunnelling" then really feels like whining.
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Tunneling is fine if the tunellee isn't a potato but killers tunnel because they think they are chasing a potato.
OK, it isn't really fine. It's an annoying but valid strategy but what I think exacerbates it are the sweaty killer builds designed to slowdown the game as much as possible while they guarantee their 1st kill. It's perks like Dead Man's and Deadlock that make me want to slap myself across the face with a frozen trout.
Tbh, tunneling isn't always the play. I just hate to see it work out anyways just because of genblock perks.
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As I write this, DBD is currently #13 in the top games on steam charts, seems like it's doing fine for an old buggy game even after all these years of tunneling.
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If the new killer is played by a skilled player of another killer, and the new survivor is truly played by a new and inexperienced player, then it's a skill issue.
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It should not have a place in the game. Tunnelling is too effective and it ruins the fun for the survivor that had one chase and then was deleted from the game. It is highly effective and removing it completely from the game may require that killers get other tools to make them competitive. Let's just hope those new tools are fun to use and to counter.
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If I'm getting tunneled I have 3 chases.
I have still fun, game is just shorter but I got my bloodpoints and can go into the next.
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Nah, I'm not that good but I'm trying to live as long I can. And mostly your mates coming to help before the third hook.
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