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Invocation should probably be kill-switched
I don't think there's any other perk in the game that is as likely to guarantee your team will lose if you use it. I've tried using it a few games and I simply can't escape. The 2 minutes is way too long for the minor 10 second BNP it provides. It regresses fast if you pause like when the killer is nearby. The broken status is like rewarding you with punishment. It's simply too many negatives for it to be viable.
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That's not what the kill-switch is for. The kill-switch is exclusively to be used to shut down something that is currently bugged in such a way it makes the match completely or practically unplayable for one side, somehow. It is not something used on things that are perceived as bad.
Think Weaving Spiders is bad all you want, but it won't be kill-switched, because it is functional.
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It practically does make the game unplayable when someone on your team uses it though. Try using it yourself and see if you can escape.
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The perk is in a functional state. It works entirely as designed. If your teammates suck at using it, then that's unfortunate, but that isn't grounds for deactivation. No Mither doesn't get kill-switched, and the selling point of that perk is being injured forever.
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Yeah, it works as intended so no need to kill switch it. It's just very bad, particularly in solo queue and if the killer is even a quarter competent, it's a guaranteed win for them.
I think even SWFs don't bother with it because there are much more viable ways for them to have success. Just a gimic perk that will probably be least used within a couple of months once everyone has done the Sable Adept achievement .
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This is what the Perk is supposed to do. It is not bugged.
It is a Killer-Perk. Nothing more. But it does not deserve to be killswitched, because it is not broken in the sense that it does not work as intended or causes game-breaking bugs.
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"If your teammates suck at using it, then that's unfortunate, but that isn't grounds for deactivation."
I mean, you cannot really use the Perk and not suck at using it, lol. The skill issue here is to try to use the Perk. But whoever tries it, will not make it work.
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This attitude of "it is a killer perk" is completely misguided.
Let me ask you, do you TRULY believe, that the perk designers at behavior, sat around and said: "######### survivor players, let's make a survivor perk that is so bad that it actually is a killer perk, that'll show those losers"
Or is it more reasonable that because this is a brand new mechanic to the game, that they are being super conservative with it because they aren't fully sure how it is all going to work out?
The perk is likely going to get buffed at some point, and pretending its not, or pretending that BHVR is in some way intentionally doing this is disingenuous.
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The perk sucks, that is all that matters
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And everyone knows it. Did you miss the part where i said that it probably is going to get buffed?
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They cant buff it without making it Overpowered.
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selling point is you can't be slugged.
Weaving Spiders is working how it meant to it just really bad designed perk for survivors.
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They fixed the missing score event in the hotfix today and people are likely seeing how much you get for completing the ritual. Give it a day and the perk will again see no use, because it's still a bad perk.
If it really bothers you, just play killer or take a break from the game.
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I spawned in with Invocation+No Mither against a Blight on Lerys last night and there was no circle in the basement
I think the game did me a favour
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It already got buffed and still sucks I highly doubt the devs are going to do anything to it again.
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Because it isn't possible to buff it again? Everything in the game only ever gets one change allowed and then they can't ever change it again?
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There's no way I can believe that the devs play-tested this perk and then decided it's viable. The only conclusion is that they made it bad on purpose, probably so they don't have to worry about it being overpowered. Even if a perk is bad, at the very least a survivor perk should be a net benefit for the survivor and not a net benefit for the killer.
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Right, so please read what i said. Yes, they made it "bad" on purpose, because they don't want this perk to come out too strong, because it is an entirely new mechanic and they aren't sure the direction they want to go with it. So better to start off a little weak, and figure out where it falls in line and how the mechanic is working, and then make changes to the perk or the mechanic itself.
So, in a way, yes, i'm saying they made it bad on purpose. But there is a good reason for that.
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In the long run its for the better, I guess. There are still crowds who have never forgiven BHVR for changing COH from its live release.
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I just had a match where it honestly did help our team. A meg was running tyr killeer for quite awhile at the start. I finished a gen while a mikaela was doing the invocation and i joined and helped her. We finished all that by the time the meg went down and we did managed to finish all gens. But it really is a very situational perk and the person who uses it has to be aware of when to use it
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I don't think there is an argument for kill switching the perk. But I do think there is a solid argument that it should be drastically buffed. They could give the perk the ability to be immune to aura reading, screaming, and killer instinct while invoking and increase the reward by 50% and I would argue that it would still be bad.
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From a Killer pov please don’t killswitch it. It provides a great side objective with ample slowdown.
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This attitude of "it is a killer perk" is completely misguided.
Let me ask you, do you TRULY believe, that the perk designers at behavior, sat around and said: "######### survivor players, let's make a survivor perk that is so bad that it actually is a killer perk, that'll show those losers"
To be fair, @Aven_Fallen did not say that.
As it stands, Weaving Spiders is essentially a killer perk, because it hurts your team and actually helps the killer. Whether or not it will be buffed eventually remains to be seen, but this isn't what is being discussed here.
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Saturday night I finished my first ever invo finally. The server crashed and everyone was booted.
I dunno, baby steps are great. But This should have been more toddler steps instead of baby steps. Over cautious comes to mind regarding BHVR with this perk. Hopefully they do buff it. But from release, just like Skull Merchant on release, Ill say it again.
They should have known better.
This isn't a science experiment. BHVR knows how to do their job (And most do!), mostly. But the whoever said "Ok, this perk looks good to go. Little on the downside of power, but we'll work with it and see." will hopefully learn from this.
This is just the company showing, once again, they are so far away and out of touch with the
playerbasegame. All my opinion of course!3 -
This perk is so bad, it's like it was designed by a council of 'forum killers' specifically so the devs wouldn't have to hear any whining this chapter about 'overpowered survivor perks'.
It literally is the answer to the question: 'what if corrupt intervention also made a survivor permanently broken?'
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The devs will probably keep an eye on its stats. If it's use coincides with a noticeable high loss rate then it'll probably get a buff.
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Yeah I think he was implying that the perk is legitimately so bad that the game because unplayable when someone runs it, which has been my experience with it as well, but I understand what you are saying. It's just too bad cause I would probably actually prefer the perk didn't exist in the game at all as well, not until it either gets a proper buff, or they add 3 more invocation spells to stack with it and actually give it some true real value for completing the invocation.
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They are not fixing it.
It is clear this perk was designed with the first concern in mind being 'this must not obstruct the killer too much'. It was in a worse state on the PTB, and it didn't get a straight buff, it got one coupled with a nerf, keeping the perk in its absolutely abysmal state. They specifically took steps to ensure it wouldn't get out of that position.
We know that BHVR is very stubborn about mistakes they make, as they haven't fixed Ruin or DS, nor did they ever fix Boons. They're not willing to deviate from convention, as none of the boons got any parameter adjustments to make them function better. Hell, they don't even seem willing to consider letting Weaving Spiders phase through gen-blocks.
So we're stuck with 120 seconds of charge time, which means BHVR has painted itself into a corner. Nothing you can come up with as an effect can justify 120 seconds of charge time, without also unleashing a tidal wave of killer complaints. This perk type is going to either be trash for survivors or perceived as OP by killers.
And they don't want the latter to happen.
So it -must- stay throw tier.
It's not what the killswitch is intended for, but I do think that All Things Wicked would be better if Sable just had 2 perks.
Post edited by Firellius on9 -
BNP on every gen is not a weak perk.
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^
Demonstrates my point.
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I think there's a bit of a problem with that, though. It'll probably mostly get picked for Adept challenges, and if people want to win, they won't actually use the perk. They'd need to isolate the loss rate of games where the perk actually fires, as opposed to where it's picked.
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If they do not want to change the down or upside of the perk I could see one change that would not hinder the game too much. They could drastically increase the bp gain. This would incentivize newer players who might be tunneled out often another way to gain bp. It is not a solve but it is an option.
Side note when I play killer and see either no mither or Invocation it’s a free win. That is why I personally identify it as a Killer perk.
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They make a lot of bad perks or weak perks but this perks has so many downsides that it's practically a killer perk and there's absolutely no reason to do that.
The interruptible time investment alone makes it a bad/weak perk then the permanent broken, basement requirement, and the fact that it won't take effect if gens are blocked make it so the downsides are significantly higher than the benefit
They're perfectly capable of making weak perks but to make a perk so bad it benefits the killer greatly is horrendous
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How are we "stuck with 120 seconds" like is it impossible to change for some reason? Has the perk become self aware and the devs aren't allowed to change it now?
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If they never bothered messing around with the parameters of Boons to make them work better, why would they start now with Invocations?
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For the most part yes I'm sure they will just make another invocation perk before this ever even gets a thought of being looked at again. It works exactly how they intended why would they change it.
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They didn't work them to work better they worked them to work worse fyi. It was really problematic to killer like hugely that's why they nerfed it and nerfed it again I cant even remember the last time bhvr buffed something then buffed it again let me know if i forgot a perk like that.
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Honestly, YES.
This perk and No Mither completely throws a game. If you are in an SWF, sure those 2 perks are fine. However, in solo queue, it wastes 3 other players time and their enjoyment of the game.
Those 2 perks are just as bad as suiciding on hook for the other 3 players in solo queue.
SWF, those 2 perks are fine.
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As others said, that's not what killswitch is for.
I agree that something needs to happen but that should be something like only allowing a player to equip this perk in a 4SWF or notify players in the lobby that someone has equipped it so that you can dodge the lobby if you don't want to lose the match.
In the meantime, I'm dodging all lobbies with a Sable. I tried accepting one a single time and instantly got a Sable who did literally nothing (well at least not touch a gen) until everyone but me was dead on hook but still three gens left ... and then she disappeared in the basement for an invocation ... I'm never again accepting a lobby with a Sable until the devs do something that I can be sure nobody brings this perk.
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I am tempted now to play as Jill Valentine and bring the perk and hope you get matched with me. Not going to, but I'm tempted. Dodging every Sable just in case they have a perk that most players don't want to use.. That's funny.
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When I see survivors using that ritual perk I just go on to the next match, its so silly. One that really annoyed me was one person went down and was placed on hook, I am in chase with the killer, what are the other two doing, drawing their chalks on basement floor letting that person on hook hit 2=who gave up, which I did not blame them at all.
I thought urban/sprint burst users annoyed me but this perk takes the cake. Also hate to be bias here but 80% of these sable players really irritate me, they tend to do nothing or do things like open chest/cleanse totems(when there is no hex or anything) they are about to be the new nic cage players( I dodge them all the time cause of way too many bad experiences)
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