is DS really as bad as people proclaim?
i saw otz's opinion on DS, and it really made me wonder, is DS really as bad as people make it out to be? it still does its job great, though i do understand how short the stun feels on the survivor side. since its obviously being changed, what do you guys think the change(s) could be? a timer pause, timer removal, stun increase?
Comments
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Yes the perk sucks, stun time is just way to short. The perk is only good for resetting endurance for dead hard
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In most cases, it is a bad perk.
You have to pretty much go down at a really good loop to maximize its use now not to mention certain killers can catch up the second they recover from the stun.
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Its only really bad if you get zoned or dead zone yourself. If you have a pallet or window nearby its still a VERY good perk.
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The reason old DS was so strong wasn’t because of the stun time, it was the fact you could use it end game and paired with Unbreakable survivors could pretty much guarantee a free escape,
even killers who didn’t like to tunnel would often time be forced to just to get rid of DS early
But now you can’t use it end game the stun duration nerf felt like overkill, it takes a second or so to finish the animation and start running again so all in all you’ve got about 2 seconds to escape, and that against any killer with any form of movement ability is absolutely useless
In my opinion they need to revert the stun time back to five seconds, maybe a second or so more to further discourage tunnelling, and finally buff the duration from 60 to 80 seconds to bring it in line with Off The Record
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Which means its pretty bad. That scenario seems to never be a thing. Ofc it is, but its not consistent enough to be viable. If the stun time isn't fixed, or whatever other great idea bhvr comes up with isn't good enough, it'll remain in the graveyard.
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Decisive Strike is good if it is used in the correct location, especially with the right exhaustion perks equipped. However, it's an anti-tunnel perk, and Off The Record is generally better. Most people don't want to run two anti-tunnel perks.
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It’s still a good perk, especially if the killer is tunneling you when 4 or 5 gens are still up. You will gain distance whether the killer waits out the base-kit BT or procs it by hitting you, letting you get to a pallet and continue the chase. If you get downed within DS’s time limit, you’ll get another opportunity to waste even more time.
It’s only bad when you have dummy teammates who use up all the resources before you get targeted. I’ll concede that it’s bad against good Nurse and Blight since you have to be an exceptional looper to go toe to toe with them. But that’s a problem with them and their abilities and not DS.
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Yeah, it's pretty bad.
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Its really not that hard to go down near a tile... I swear in this community the perk better be super duper good or broken or else its useless.
Post edited by Brimp on5 -
It's OK with Plot Twist. It really does need the 5 second stun AND the og skill check.
Why is it OK for DS to discriminate against Survivor who play on Toasters, but Power Struggle can just be a button? Legit makes no sense
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The only thing that made DS broken was the lack of the Conspicuous Action mechanic. Outside of Deliverance, there always is a Survivor that had to unhook them that the Killer can chase instead. Now that CAs exist, it is fair at 5s (and imo working in endgame). Otz unfortunately was forced into more and more sweaty gameplay due to MMR and his challenges, and thus he aggressively tunnels when he never used to strictly rely on that. Anything that counters the specific playstyle you plan on using is going to feel bad to go against, and in this case a near useless anti-tunnel still is a speedbump against tunneling.
Also reminder that he already proved how useless DS is against any non-M1 Killer or fall stagger, so if anything, DS should equally punish all Killers for tunneling. My recommendation is to disable Killer power for 5s per gen remaining after the stun ends (so 25s at 5 gens, and 5s at 1 gen). Alternatively make the Survivor invisible and silent (and no scratch marks/pools of blood) for 3-10s to run in any direction and hide. Alternatively again, give the Survivor a Background Player level Sprint Burst.
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no, it´s good, just not OP anymore
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DS is one of the most restricted perks in the entire game. You get, at most, 2 opportunities to use it, if everything goes well, and as soon as it triggers it's gone for the match, whether or worked or not. You only get 60s to use it after unhook, and you can't do anything to personally progress the game without losing it. It also disappears in end game.
For all of that, if it does go off, you get a single, 3s stun on the killer... Of which you are also animation locked (stunned) yourself for about 1.4 seconds of that.
The distance you get is a literal joke against most of the killer roster, and saying you can go down and use it strategically at a pallet or tile is, at best, also saying this perk is only useful if map RNG allows it. You know, map RNG: one of their biggest complaints the game has ever had.
Current DS is not for distance or anti tunnel, it's for resetting exhaustion once per game. It's a bad perk right now.
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Yeah i dont get how people say its good💀 the perk is such a joke that killers dont respect it. “But if you go down a pallet or a window, if you use off the record and dead hard, if your teammates body block” if you need multiple things to make one perk do something, the perk flat out sucks
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It does laughably little against specific killers. Precisely those who excell at tunnelling.
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og skill check? wdym by that lol
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The OG skillcheck was about half the circle, like a big autodidact skill check. To be honest, I agree, the skillcheck only serves the purpose of screwing over newer players being tunneled and making it bigger still lets people "save" it by not even attempting the skillcheck if they want to so there's no need for it to be so punishing.
As for OP's question yes it is bad at average and below average levels. The 60 second timer is somewhat restrictive at levels where gen efficiency isn't maximized and the time it buys against killers with mobility is laughable when your teammates aren't slamming gens with max efficiency. It is only good at high levels where the 3 second stun and 7 seconds of running into a comp corner will buy your team a little more time against a nurse or blight. In conclusion it fails at being a tunneling deterrent at every level except the very highest, where tunneling is required anyway, so it doesn't have much if any impact. The times where killers would actively avoid tunneling because it was the better play was when DS was at its best. I think endgame and conspicuous nerfs were good too.
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My question is simple.
If the perk is bad, why is it run by a survivor in every single comp game still?
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I've been in games where a survivor pulling a DS has allowed us time to finish the gens. The thing is, rarely does it actually save the person being targeted. Sometimes OTR will discourage a tunnel because you have a second go of it, but no reason not to chase the DS user.
To use it you've got to both have a team mindset and already be really good with survivor.
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first of all no one cares about comp its a completely different game
and second because the perk is used as a game delay perk not anti tunnel
the perk is not good for anti tunnel thats the whole point
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I've noticed most people who use DS use DH with it. I'm assuming because they'll get the stun and since the killer can now catch up quite easily, the DH comes into play to extend.
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Well duh. Its literally 'Most efficient' or no good. See verbal Tunneling defences 101, page 1 of 1.
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Yes, it is
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In other words, you just have to make sure you don't down in the wrong place. It goes without saying that no matter how good a perk is, it will be useless if the survivors who use it do not have the wisdom to utilize it. Why don't you run to your locker?
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If you get caught out in a dead zone it's not very good with the three second stun time. Tbh, I think perk would be fine with 5 sec stun again and it's current activation conditions.
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It's too conditional to not carry a very heavy stun. Pretty sure all the folks saying 'it's good' are forgetting that the perk can only be activated by the killer, making it extremely conditional.
It was one of the healthiest perks in the game, and it got nuked for no reason.
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3 secs really is not enough time to do much, unless you intentionally place yourself in a zone where there’s effective tiles to run and safe pallets, but even then, depending on the killer, may not even be enough. Simply reverting or lengthening the stun time would be enough to see more play, but then that’d put it right back on the watch list to nerf yet again. Balance is a tricky element in such a game as this one.
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That is my experience with the new ds aswell. I've used it after the nerf and it was fine against a Plague or a Clown (Clown didn't use the bottles), but useless against Nurse or Blight so I switched to otr.
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Buying any time when getting tunneled is always worth it. People just aren't used to it not being a complete chase reset.
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Its bad only if you end in the deadzone or you play againts killer who can really quickly follow you up and down you fast.
Its rly powerfull if you let yourself down next to a safe place and againts M1 Killers.
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Absolutely not. It's still dog against Nurse and Blight, but there are a lot of weaker killers against whom it can be the difference between 4k and 4E.
It's an absolute travesty that not every single lobby has every single survivor run DS+OTR+SB. I genuinely don't understand why the community loves throwing games so much.
And of course I also cannot fathom why BHVR is going to nerf this perk even harder into the ground. There's already an 80% killrate in SoloQ, so it's not like Killers need even more handholding. But I guess the stats must be made up for the fact that there's literally zero effort going into actually balancing killers and maps.
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Depends what your definition of good is.
In terms of wasting time and extending the chase, yeah, it's still pretty good, but in turns of an anti tunnel perk that deters tunneling or makes it less desirable, not so much.
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The perk is objectively good. The entire problem with the perk just really comes down to it being useless vs certain killers or not saving you in dead zones, since the stun doesn't let survivors just hold w mindlessly for an extended amount of time.
If all killers are doing is tunneling then the correct build would be running DS and OTR. If you face killers that are like Nurse and Blight then DH would be a great exhaustion perk and DS is needed for you to be able to reset endurance, and lower tier killers you can run any exhaustion perk and DS is going to have great results once you proc it. Since OTR means the killer has to eat an endurance you really are fine when you get the DS proc unless the entire map has the pallets thrown.
Hard to say the perk that has a place in the META isn't good. With hundreds of bad perks in this game only a few are really worth running, and DS is one of those perks.
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Yes it is. A certain content creator (once again) trying to talk things strong which are not strong does not change that.
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IIRC he said when DS was nerfed it was weak and did like an experiment to show that it does virtually nothing against most killers (not just Nurse and Blight, but most of them). Now he’s saying that same untouched perk is somehow good… against killers those same killers—some of which have received buffs? 🧐
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Considering the new maps, the decrease in safe pallets and the powers of (many) killers.... Yes, we can say DS sucks. Read on paper it seems decent (especially if you are new to the game), and I admit some (rare) times it can help, but in general it sucks.
How do you explain that the WHOLE community complains about tunneling, but DS remains rarely used?🤣
Does a better job Off the Record (my opinion).
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Well, it's a perk so good that it's always used in semi-official tournaments. This perk is useless for people who only care about running away from the killer. In that case, please bring OTR. If you get hit right after being rescued, blame the person who rescued you because he's not good at it.
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Well if Otz says so....
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In competitive 10 seconds of additional chase due to the DS can really make the difference... in solo q or in any case with unorganized SWF, those 10 seconds really do nothing.
However, competitive DBD is a "Fantastic Beasts", I have seen the strangest and most improvable perks... like "solidarity", "leader", "lucky break", "Smash it". All decent perks but never OP or meta."Competitive" DBD is not suitable for balancing "normal" gameplay.
Apparently DS will be buffed, let's see what will change
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Old DS made it so you weren't punished if you went down in the open since you could just hold w and go somewhere safe. If you use the nerfed version the same way it is garbage. If you DS a Demo in the open the perk does literally nothing but a slight inconvenience to the killer, however if you end up going down before reaching that next loop you all of a sudden get to reset that chase. If that reset ends up adding 30 seconds additional to the chase then theoretically if 3 survivors were all working on separate gens your extension of that single chase you would have added an extra 90 charges to gens. As a comparison Pain Res Removes 90c if you hook all 4 survivors on a scourge hook.
Nurse is the only Killer that truly doesn't care about DS since she is all about maintaining distance and you getting to a pallet means nothing to her. I even think the blight streak that was lost had a massive DS value happen in that game since it happened at a pallet.
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It is awful by the time you jump off the killer shoulders and being to sprint that is already about 2 seconds already gone and specially vs someone like huntress or high mobility killers. I do not go by what content creators say specially killer main ones.
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Yes, it is.
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DS is still a great perk and can change the game in certain situations. Yes, if you get picked up by the killer and use DS while you are in a dead zone, it will give you just a few seconds, but if you can get you to a loop you can massively extend your longevity.
The factor that makes DS be rarer is just that Off the Record outclasses it in almost every way. OTR can be used twice per match, while DS can be used only once. OTR lasts for 80 seconds, while DS only lasts for 60. OTR can't be countered by slugging the survivor, while DS can. Also, OTR gives you a neat anti aura reading and mute effect. In pretty much every way, OTR is DS on steroids hence why DS is rare nowadays.
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Even at 3 sec it was still very good, just not good on bad players. There's a reason it was still ran in comp and in most high mmr swf.
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Exactly, it still resets the chase.
I think the problem is people want a greater head start because they feel slighted if targeted again after an unhook.
As if by using DS you should be able to vanish or escape from chase almost guaranteed, but that's not really what its for. Its an aid to escape from chase, its still on the survivor to outplay the killer during that chase and escape.
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The OG skill check youre referring to was only shown in the spotlight trailer, it was never that big on live
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Also people sleep on the fact that by using DS you remove deep wounds which allows it to be used to stack endurance effects with each other.
A well timed DS alongside endurance to eat multiple hits can cost the killer a lot of time that even if they end up killing you, the rest of your team had the time to escape.
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Personally, I'll just run the killer. I've not once used DS, but hearing team mates scream about how useless that DS was in a game is resounding. And even if there is a vault or something nearby, its still not guaranteed. Unless you are absolutely god tier at telling the killer where you'd like to be downed, its terrible currently.
And what are you on about with a locker? Hop in and get pulled out? Genuinely confused lol. <3
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This comment to those who make comments like this one. I love how much it shows you haven't even bothered to read his post about DS and his reasonings why he is not a fan of buffing DS. For example one of the reasons he is not a fan of the idea of buffing DS is the fact its a paid perk and another anit tunnel perk that is locked behind paid DLC and it forces players(esp newer players) to spend money just so they can't be a tunnel. He rather dev work on making either a free anti-tunnel perk or a base kit change that discourages tunneling. He has so many of other reasoning and I encourage you all to actually read the other thread of posts before you make comments like this one.
Here is the whole tweet:https://x.com/OtzdarvaYT/status/1773013697260056680?s=20
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I have read it before, thank you. I am subscribed to his youtube and follow him on Twitter, so I dont need the forums as an additional way of knowing whatever Otz is thinking. Does not change my opinion.
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