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If survivors should expect to escape ~3/10 matches...
Comments
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1/10 seems a bit low even when I consider how bad the game currently is. Although people who say they always escape are lying. I'm pretty sure even Otz only got around 40% in his solo queue experiment. He is a 10k+ hour player. The game is just incredibly hard for survivors at the moment. I find that playing during off hours makes the game even more difficult. The matchmaking is even worse and every killer plays like they are in a tournament. The only way anyone escapes consistently in solo queue is if they play like a rat and go for the hatch every game. Nobody is gate escaping after completing five gens on a consistent basis.
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Having a low 3/10 winrate for survivors is a problem. If balance is not fair for both sides where the objective is obtainable equally then you have the problem you say where one side decides the objective is simply not worthy of effort.
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The game had the highest number of players ever when the kill rate was 54%. If they had kept the game balanced I believe it would have kept growing instead of declining.
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I've been tracking my escape rate. Over the past 64 games it's 30.3%. In so many games someone dcs and those games don't even get added in the stats which is why devs say the escape rate is 40%. I'm on the verge of being done with this game unless they make changes because this is just too discouraging to even try anymore.
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That coincides with the release of the first RE chapter though, which is among the most popular chapters (if not the most popular chapter) released.
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Literally the first thing they said as the reason for the changes was to address the slugging playstyle. So before you lie about me lying, you should check your facts
Dev note: Previously, The Twins’ Power heavily encouraged ‘slugging’ (leaving Survivors in the dying state) since Victor could chain together pounces on multiple injured Survivors, but only pounce a single healthy one. Furthermore, Survivors could often save each other before Charlotte could make it to them.
We have flipped this around: Victor will now be much more effective at injuring multiple Survivors and instead assist Charlotte – who now moves faster while Victor is latched on – in picking up the Survivor. This makes it possible for Victor to both injure and down a Survivor without being forced to switch back to Charlotte in between.
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The game was more fun when it is fair. It's become a game all about killers. Every patch is literally buffing killers and nerfing survivors in some way.
As been said when you remove skill expression then there is no point in playing to improve. Therefore the playerbase shrinking.
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it been 30%
They just dont include the DC'S which happen all the time. my win rate went from 45% to 40% to 35% throughout the year. My kill rate always remain at 80% but now i don't even use tactics (sometimes 3 gen still). I don't think killers are op or nothing but the matchmaking have made the solo q skill expression pointless. I play 13 games last week and in half them i took the killer on a 2 to 3 gens chases. Won 3 out of 10 because teammates die immediately. check they profile and realize i can't even blame teammates! matchmaking pairing u with people who have 100 to 300 hours vs 4 digit hours killer constantly. Literally giving them tunnel food on a silver platter. The whole meta base on capitalizing on weak links and matchmaking guarantee easy targets so pop go the weasel can infinitely proc. There's no way to carry as a Survivor cuz the killer could just drop chase but it many ways to lose off one weak survivor. Huge issue! Your skill level rarely reflect your team level in solo queue.
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it would be a problem of game balance if the worst killers weren't having highest killrates. This pretty much proves how bad average survivor is.
SoloQ itself would be much better if people just collectively changed their mindsets and actually played as a team.
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Maybe I'm tired - but I don't quite follow. How exactly does the worst killers having the highest killrates prove how bad the average survivor is? Also what exactly do you mean by balance?
Cause I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here. If not this reads a lot like "everyting is fine - survivors just need to git gut" … which I don't exactly consider constructive.As for the other point: In theory, sure. - But how exactly do you picture four strangers with no means of communications and no means of sharing information and coordinating to play as a team? (I ask because I can't picture that at all. - I can, however, picture people who want to have comms, information sharing and coordination to form premade swf on e.g. discord servers dedicated to swf-ing)
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Why don't you try get P100 characters? Or grind every iri add ons to killers etc? For me the grind is never over. I have P100 Feng now working on P61 Nancy. On anniversary I fill focus getting big supplies on killers. I actually rarely update them just enough that I have something to use. Expect on Myers I have 100+ tombstones ready.
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because the worst killers are the ones that basically have no kind of antiloop, proper map pressure and are weak overall against both good soloQ and SWF teams.
And despite i'm all in favor of implementing voice chat into dbd, it actually won't change anything. Comms won't help you in a chase between you and the killer, which is pretty much the most important aspect of survivor gameplay. I was flabbergasted when i once heard a 5k hours player ask me what checkspots are.
What does it tell you? Is lack of comms really one of the biggest problems in dbd? No, it isn't, because in most cases, you wouldn't even be matched against a godtier killer player in terms of macro gameplay knowledge playing a very strong killer. Is this a proper argument because i'm talking about "average" stuff? Not quite, but when you take in mind pickrate of killers that would actually require you to have comms and the extremely low chance of you getting matched against a very good player playing that killer.
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I escape around 5/10 maybe 6/10 on a good day but regardless I have thousands of hours and have studied this game up and down and that's what it takes to just escape HALF the time. I imagine most people are struggling much more but I was thinking about this and came to the conclusion this is kinda what we signed up for. Not just us but everyone who plays PVP games in general.
Someone no matter what happens is not going to have fun. Either the killer doesn't do well or the survivors fail to escape. Even in "balanced" games with a 2k the killer most of the time isn't going to be happy with that and if you're a survivor that died you probably still didn't have fun. That's just the nature of PvP games, somebody is always going to lose and losing is not fun. So either make peace with the fact that sometimes the game isn't going to be enjoyable or play PvE games.
Which saying PvE games isn't meant as an insult. I've been playing a ton of Warframe lately and it's honestly been relaxing compared to DBD, just chill level clearing and resource gathering with other people. Like I honestly recommend playing some sort of MMO or RPG with friends if DBD is frustrating you, it's not as tense and the communities are generally much nicer as a result cuz nobody is going against each other.
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I've just had little interest in doing so until recently. For killer add-ons I just level a few times until I have an add on I want to use for 2 or 3 matches, and for survivor I don't really find any items useful except for medkits.
My highest level survivor right now is Leon at P13, and that's only because he was already P3 before the prestige revamp, and I've decided to start leveling him anytime I need a new medkit.
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If you only play 13 games in a whole week, and you get paired with survivors with less than 500 hours, it sounds like a case of either you play in a region at times there aren't alot of players (especially if the killer has much more hours) or your MMR is just not too high.
And just to be certain, what is your win condition? Because escape rates and win rates are not the same thing, I can die and the 3 others get out and that feels like a win, or my team gets slaughtered and I escape in the hatch, that doesn't feel like a win to me.
If you don't want to stick the games out to record the survival rates of your team, that's fine, I imagine it could be tedious. Just thought I'd ask.
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my win condition is escaping through the gates via all gens being completed. hatch/afk killers/farmers don't count. I could be low mmr like u said but we will never know. Behavior should consider showing players their mmr so people can finally understand where they rank. If my mmr was truly low than i wouldn't have any right to complain about my teammates but instead we are left in the dark.
"If you don't want to stick the games out to record the survival rates of your team, that's fine, I imagine it could be tedious. Just thought I'd ask" i never stick around to see but i could start too
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Even some killers are complaining the game feels too easy now. I hope the devs realize that making most matches an easy stomp for killers is not fun or engaging for them either.
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Okay, so you only consider your own escape rate, meaning if you died but your 3 teammates escaped you consider that a loss?
That's fine. I think MMR only considers your teammates escaping affecting your own ranking if you play in a SWF, whereas if you are solo the only thing that affects it is your own escape.
But it's a big reason why winning is very subjective, and can't automatically be comparable to escape rates and kill rates.
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Ah. I see. - Though, I still disagree.
It could also just as well mean that even the worst killers have enough tools available to absolutely stomp anyone but the above-average survivors.
On the point of individual chase strength being the most important factor I also beg to differ. The most recent example I can think of is the showdown between an US/EU team and a Japanese team; Legion on Gideon. The US/EU team got pretty much destroyed. I think an allstar cast of some of the best loopers who most definitely know every checkspot and pallet in the game qualify as "being good in chase". So why did they get destroyed? Because they were oblivious (add-on) and couldn't coordinate/communicate where Legion was and where they had to be. And I do think most people agree that Legion isn't exactly the strongest killer in the game.
That being said, having voice chat will indeed not solve the issue; just "having" comms doesn't mean you can use them. Just like WoO doesn't magically turn you into a good looper; it shows you the resources but it doesn't automatically enable you to use them correctly. Which is why I included the coordination aspect; comms and information sharing are a means to that end. It's not about comms helping you in a chase. It is about helping you to chase in the right places so that you don't screw your team. It is to coordinate unhooks and resets, to keep track of resources and killer powers/perks.
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I happen to have 5k hours in WF, so I do play plenty PvE ^^ (not as much as I used to though… starting with PoE they've kinda gotten into the habit of just introducing yet another kind of standing/group of resources where you have to kinda start from scratch over and over again and that's not really my cup of tea. - But I digress.)
That it isn't fun to lose is well understood. - But between "loading into a match and thinking it can go either way" and then losing and "loading into a match thinking it will most likely end in one way" and then losing - as expected - are very different things.
Or differently put, you say "make peace with the fact that sometimes the game isn't going to be enjoyable" — but I increasingly get the impression that it's "make peace with the fact that usually the game isn't going to be enjoyable"… which I think is a problem and a direction game devs should try to avoid.4 -
You seem to be a reappearing phenomena. You trying to spread a message?
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Just posting facts. I am sorry if that upsets you although I wouldn't consider myself a reappearing phenomena until I have over 2800 posts.
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They already over-buffed Trickster to the point where he is pointless to go against as a survivor. He never runs out of knives, and his main event is just stupid. Absolutely no counterplay on certain maps.
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I'd much rather have longer queue times if that means the QUALITY of the games gets better.
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I did by no means get upset by your posts. I am however under the opinion, that certain killers need buffs. Nothing wrong with that.
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Every killer is receiving buffs. See the various reworks aka buffs to killers over the last bunch of patches. There will continue to be reworks aka buffs to various killers in the future. Anything to push the kill rates even higher that they are now.
Overpowered twins are on the way.
Haddonfield nerf aka killer buff is on the way.
You are under the opinion that certain killers need buffs. That's fine.
When does it end though?
When kill rates are 60%, 65%, 70%. When killer gets so easy you can tap your little finger on the mouse a couple of times for an easy win and some cheap endorphins?
When is enough enough?
I always say, it's only going to get worse for survivors. This is a fact. Solo escape rate was 38% before huntress buff, twins buff, Haddonfield nerf etc etc. It's going to be around 30% soon.
Solo is awful to play. It will only get worse.
You will get your killer buffs. The devs want the game to be easy mode for you, so they are on the way.
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What I want are healthy buffs. Not even the most try hard killer mains want the twins rework to go live. You must see that.
Take Pig for example. I mained this killer for over 2k hours at this point. I went really deep into the "buff" and the thing we have now can barely considered to be a buff. The only thing that actually got better is John's medical file, now allowing the Pig to crouch around the map at the speed of a survivor running. Otherwise I can't say, that her chase has drastically improved. It's still pre dropping and shift w. Still as effective as before.
Not every buff is truly a buff.
Some buffs are definitely too much, like the twins and huntress shenanigans that are happening, have happened.
I can't and don't want to defend the devs for their sometimes horrendous balancing decisions, but pushing for us VS them is not the way to go friend.
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I am not pushing us vs them. The developers want one side to be strong and easy, the other side to be weak and pointless.
That's on them. 60% kill rate Minimum across all killers. Minimum. What's the ceiling?
At this point I don't even think there is such a thing as a healthy buff for killer. It would just be a buff on the most buffed side.
According to night light the pig already has a 59.33 kill rate. She already kills nearly 60% of survivors on average across her matches.
You still require more pig buffs?
I don't even know what to say to that.
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Those are stats. Stats have to be interpreted. If you can't do that, you shouldn't work with them. Your just spreading misinformation.
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They are from the developers and also nightlight.gg.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
@Ilikechips Never doubted the authenticity of the statistics you mentioned. I can definitely question the statistics from nightlight though. But that's not the point of the discussion.
You seem to misunderstand my point. 60% kill rate. Big number. BUT before you just say: killer sided game, survivor dead, you have to ask yourself : how do these stats come to be. What is maybe the problem with those stats? Why should we take them with a grain of salt?
Let's start with Piggy while we are at it. Why do you think she has a kill rate this high?
Post edited by radiantHero23 on4 -
last time i checked, people were saying that they play for fun and don't care about winning and game balance "didn't matter". Now the same people are constantly bringing up killrates that are literally heavily pumped by them and are complaining about killer sided game (it's still survivor sided at the top skill level with 0 restrictions on survivor side) and game balance.
Why did balance not matter in old dbd when you could literally steamroll killers with the least amount of skill possible, why does it have to matter now?
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My experience is the same, and my escape rate has been on the same downward trajectory since update 6.1.
I like to joke that you're supposed to get more skilled at games the longer you play, but I seem to be going backward and apparently lose skill the more I play.
The matchmaking is a weird one because I feel like once upon a time I was matched up with people on my same level in solo queue. Now it feels like matchmaking purely revolves around the killer's MMR. Like the killer will ready up and the game will then put the team together and ensure it consists of a couple survivors on the killer's level and a couple on a lower level (ie the weak link/s). I could be way off but I just don't know why else so many solo survivors feel so incredibly mismatched with some of their team mates, and why a game's outcome seem to be decided by whoever gets found first - if a less experienced survivor is found, it's usually game over. More experienced survivor found first gives the team a fighting chance. But you can usually predict how a game will go early on. It never used to be like that.
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My posts have been changed and deleted also. I do not know why. Someone is meddling in our conversation.
Pig has a high kill rate due to developers buffing it and nerfing survivors, items, perks and maps over a long period of time.
Its kill rate is only going to increase along with every other killer.
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I've seen the same. Hope we won't get interrupted again.
I have to heavily disagree here. Pigs kill rate isn't high because of recent buffs. Not because of nerfs to survivors or map reworks.
It has always been high and hasn't changed much for over two to three years. The Pig has always performed way better than many other killers in the roster despite her constantly getting nerfed in the past (bigger terror radius, slower carrying speed, traps not activating after all gens are done and some other not so funny ones). Is she better than all the other then? Is she better than Nurse, Blight, Plague or even Wesker?
No. She's definitely not, showcased by a ton of people in the community constantly putting poor Amanda in c tier or even below that.
Why then is the kill rate so consistently high throughout the years she has been in the game?
Because of her core design.
Pig is a stealth, slowdown killer with the emphasis on slowdown. She has the strongest built in slowdown in the game, being the reverse beartraps she can place on survivors heads. This mechanic and this alone is the sole reason for the Pigs high kill rate. Kill rates are taken from all players playing dbd. That means not only high- and mid-, but also lower mmr. They also don't differentiate between matches of soloq and swf. This has to be taken into consideration when dealing with these stats.
Now to the problem. Piggies high kill rate. Soloq has an undeniably harder time versing a Pig than swf. Pig stomps soloq due to being a strategic killer. Survivor have to often play a team game and coordinate to beat a good Pig. This being incredibly hard and sometimes even impossible in soloQ. But why does she then perform this good against SWF? Because the slowdown. If you play her well and put a ton of other side objectives on top of the traps, survivors become overwhelmed extremely fast, bringing most matches to a halt. Gens simply stop to progress. Totems or other slowdown perks are incredibly effective on her. Add that survivors can die to the traps easily with certain addons or playstyles and you have your culprit for the high kill rate.
Why is she still considered that bad?
Her chase. She had to down a survivor to place a trap. Sadly this is where she suffers a lot. Getting g a down can take a lot of time as a Pig.
She also has no map mobility to defend objectives.
Overall, she is a soloq stomper that even decent swf have problems dealing with, while being fairly weak against coordinated teams.
That's the thing.
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I have been playing since around release. I stopped playing so much after patch 6.1. I barely play anymore because solo survivor is absolutely miserable to play. It's not fun in any shape or form whatsoever. It's either gen simulator and watch your team get tunnelled out or you getting tunnelled out. There's not many ways to counter killer anymore as a solo player.
You have a very good analysis of the pig gameplay and history and I agree with what you have written. Pig is a solo stomper. Far less effective against swf. She lacks super speed like nurse, blight, spirit etc.
Do you change pig to be a super speed killer and start making all the killers carbon copies of each other so every killer can stomp solos and swfs?
My point is that survivor is already the weaker role. Especially solo survivor. Any buffs to the pig will come at the expense of the already weakened survivor role making playing solo even less enjoyable than it already is.
In my opinion the devs have swung the pendulum too far into the killers direction. They continue to buff killers and offer nothing to survivor in return. Just take and take and take.
The last thing that I can remember that was a good addition for survivor was the HUD. That was a token gesture though because that came with more nerfs to the role.
If pig is a solo stomper, decent swf struggle against her and only coordinated teams do good against her why does she need any buffs at all? Is the goal just to make it so noone has a chance against her? To make her so overpowered you can just log in and win? Or do you just want her to be a pig version of blight?
I like that different killers have different play styles. If you want good chase there is a killer for that, if you want to trap people there is a killer for that. If you want to jump scare people etc etc.
Pig is already much stronger than the average survivor. She has a unique playstyle. I disagree that she needs any more buffs. Otherwise she will just stomp everyone.
The devs will still make her stronger than she is now though through more map nerfs and survivor nerfs. She might get easier in chase as maps become even smaller and more loops are broken up.
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We really have to think about the fact even with all the busted loops and all the game breaking perks, killers were winning more than survivors
What it tells is that survivors aren't weak, but rather most aren't even trying, current mediocre SM having high kill rates shows same thing too
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The Pig is devent. Thats it. She will struggle against one thing. Very good survivors. If a team is extremely good at looping, the Pig will realistcally loose 3 gens for her first down. If the survivors can hold that pressure and continue to do gens at that pase, the Pig will undeniably loose the match, maybe getting one kill.
What I want it this to not happen and a more even experience. I did never say, that I wanted her to have a movement ability. Im for balancing out her nasty edges and making her better in chase.
Right now, screaming builds are very problematic on her. Therefore I proposed multiple times to make screaming not interrupt the search of a box.
I also proposed, that a survivor cant die to the timer running out while searching a box, only dying after the search action is completed.
To compensate for this, I would love to have more strenght in her chasing capabilites. Maybe a pallet break built in into the ambush to counter pre dropping or a longer amush, to counter the shift w - problem that she struggles so much with. Survivors should learn to play a pallet mindgame and not just walk away from any interaction. This is not interactive gameplay in my experience.
This is all that I would want for the Pig.
Other killers like Nemesis or Demogorgon have horrendous addons, while their base kit is mostly fine. This leads to no variety in addon use and more stale matches against these killers.
Dont even get me started with Freddy, who is just bad in every way except his kill rate that is boosted by low level soloq players that have problems figuring out what oblivious is.
Im all for survivor buffs. Im not for perks like old DH or MFT that are downright busted, unfair or promote unhealthy gameplay. Could survivor be buffed?
Yes absolutely. Survivors should see their teammates perks in the lobby to coordinate perk usage. There could also be a ping system, with which survivors could tell each other where to go during the match.
I dont think that buffing med kits or toolboxes will lead to healthier matches. Im also not against buffs to keys, maps or flashlights. Im against background player due to it leading to unhealthy gameplay from both sides (uncounterable safes = more slugging).
I also cant comprehent why Blight is getting buffed and hope that the Twins rework is not going live.
Please dont antagonize people just because they are not playing the survivor role 24/7.
I play a lot of survivor, recently started my p100 Jill project. I enjoy my soloq matches. Im sad to hear that your opinion is so different from mine. I rarely see true killer induced tunneling.
I would also not consider the survivor role to be the definitive weaker role. The weaker role in DBD is the side that brings the weaker stuff into a trial. Thats the hard reality.
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This is the situation we have found ourselves in. Playing solo Q feels like you are just qing up to die. Playing as killer has gotten boring/repetitive due to the ease of the game. I now find myself handycapping myself on killer and can still 3-4k just about every game that I want to. There are only a handful of games where I can say I couldn't get any more then a 2k and that is usually due to either me making a lot of mistakes or my opponents just simply being better then me. Simply put on killer as of right now you can almost always get a 3k simply but tunnaling someone out of the game. So long as you do it before there is one gen left its is a near guaranteed 3k.
If matchmaking was betting this could solve a some of these issues, we have seen what can happen if killers are put into a skill bracket equal to their skill level, the game becomes an actual tug of war between gens being done and pressure a killer is applying For me at least those are some of my favorite games. It wont stop camping and tunnaling(although I do believe these should be options open to the killer, they need to be disincentivize) however it will mean it will take longer for those downs to happen, or survivors will be getting gens done while this is hap[pining.
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I've been saying this, making the game so killer sided doesn't make it make more enjoyable for killers. Winning game after game without much effort gets old fast. When many killers feel the need to handicap themselves to make it more challenging says a lot.
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that's when they actually switch over to tourneys and scrims where they actually have a huge challenge and handicapping yourself becomes a big "NO"
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"I like to joke that you're supposed to get more skilled at games the longer you play, but I seem to be going backward and apparently lose skill the more I play."
🤣lol it definitely feel that way right! Your skill just seem irrelevant in solo q.... teammates/matchmaking and how the killer is playing seem to steer the match completely. Your killer mmr theory don't seem to off. There's always at least one player on the team who have no business being there. I dodge low level prestiges like the plague. It coUld bE a prestige 100 playing a different character. DONT MATTER! that a risk I'm not taking. Yeah Prestige don't equal skill but it do show you know the basics. I had enough matches with noobs indulging themselves on dull totems. I'm gonna go by what i can see and careless about the backfill problems it cause. The Matchmaking don't care about my experience clearly so why should i give a flying $hit about others? Sad that it came down to this but you need to be completely ruthless to even have a chance at a normal game.
also I'm not saying high prestiges can't be terrible because half of them are.
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I think you're in the group that would really benefit from joining one of the various premade-Discords. Not even to sweat or anything of the sorts - but to have people on your team whose skill level you know. Most regions/languages have one of those.
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Yeah u might be right. I've been apart of plenty swfs and it always a blast. They all eventually die out in a couple months tho as no one get online. Got sick of making new friends just for them to leave so i kinda just went back to solo q. Never use discord but it could be something I'll look into.
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Does that make me a permanent phenomenon?
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