Can we PLEASE create a solution for survivors holding the game hostage/refusing to participate

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StalkingYou
StalkingYou Member Posts: 34
edited April 16 in Feedback and Suggestions

If you have over 1k hours on this game you've probably experienced at least a couple games in which there will be two survivors left with 3-4 gens remaining, and instead of trying to do anything, the survivors just hide all game and keep you in the match. It is very frustrating and petty.

I have this happen from time to time and it is a big problem. Im making this post because I just experienced it again, and while I did find one of them in the end and get the 3k, it took 20 extra minutes and I never want to deal with it again. There needs to be a mechanic in place that reveals their positions to you if they dont do anything for 5 minutes

Oh, and then the survivors will message you afterwards and try to say that it is YOUR fault they acted that way.

The person who got the hatch in the game I was just in messaged me trying to say that he wouldn't have acted like that if I didn't "camp at the start" grown man btw, I checked.

There needs to be something done about this or it will just be a last resort option for the survivors to troll a killer because they're salty they got obliterated with 5 gens left

Post edited by Rizzo on

Comments

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,396
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    Lot of childish behavior from both parties here.

    Survivors need a catch-up for the late-game, not sure what form that'd take, but once there's two Survivors the game isn't winnable.

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 431
    edited April 16
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    This is quite strange something literally bannable is somehow not made impossible by whatever systems

    Face camping somehow got a fix despite not being bannable offense, but this is still "allowed", as in no system to stops them from doing such

    And this is even more strange that the lot of people assume fix is to give survivors even more free advantage at end game, which they have ridiculous amount of it already for some reasons

  • SignedUp4PTBFeedback
    SignedUp4PTBFeedback Member Posts: 51
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    Killer doesn't have comeback mechanics? Have you ever gotten a 2k getting another person downed while camping the hook in endgame collapse? You've never done a mass slug play when all gens are done and got at least 2-3 people that way, really?
    You don't count NOED in your book that would by your logic also not count any perk complained about on any side ever, but there are others valid in this book of yours like No Way Out and Blood Warden that can absolutely make total losses into 2ks or more.

    On the survivor side, tell me the mechanic or perk that will enable a 3 man escape in a 3v1 at 3+ gens remaining. Or how does more than 1 survivor at best escape in a 2v1 where the exit gates aren't already powered? I need to know.

  • StalkingYou
    StalkingYou Member Posts: 34
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    Alright, I'd like to keep this on topic so I'll say this. I do think that there should be a mechanic that gives survivors a chance if there are only two of them left with 3-5 gens remaining. I know how miserable that feels, I've had it happen in a lot of my solo q games.

    But my point is that there needs to be a mechanic that stops survivors from prolonging the game because they want to troll you.

    Even if there were a mechanic which gave survivors a fighting chance in situations like this, lots of them would still just hide and do nothing out of spite, either because they don't like how you played, or because they're just salty in general.

  • SignedUp4PTBFeedback
    SignedUp4PTBFeedback Member Posts: 51
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    Well, given the current system you can't really tell trolls apart from people who just genuinely want to get a hatch escape and don't want to be found first. That's the thing, the best play for both remaining players is to hide, and it's a boring mechanic I agree, which is why I mostly just hold onto the gen and don't bother hiding, would rather go next.

    We could add an aura read timer for people who don't do any gen progress for x minutes, to reduce egregious cases of hiding. Or if there is a comeback mechanic added that incentivizes doing gens, one can make this timer shorter. This is just off the top of my head.

  • CodeDB
    CodeDB Member Posts: 267
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    That's an interesting question. I thought it was well established that killers are meant to get stronger as the game goes on so that is their comeback options? Like, here are all the things I can think of off the top of my head.

    • As gens get completed, the map automatically becomes easier to patrol. There are less areas you need to check and you can limit your patrol more
    • Survivors main resources (pallets) are a finite resource and as the game goes on, survivors have less to use to defend themselves
    • Even survivors secondary resources (items) are limited. The later in the game, the less charges their medkits/flashlights/toolboxes have to help them progress the game. Killers add ons don't drain like that
    • Even a ton of killer powers become more plentiful as a game goes on. Oni has more blood orbs around, Onryo has more stacks of condemn, Plague has more people infected and/or more red fountains, Trapper should have more traps collected/set, Doctor should have more survivors in higher tiers of madness, etc
    • A survivor on 2nd hook has no chance of unhooking themselves (outside of the camping meter, controlled by the killer) meaning that is less the killer has to worry about later in the game
    • After gens are completed, Decisive Strike and the anti-camp feature both disable giving the killer a better chance to secure a kill
    • End game perks (beyond even NOED) exist. Terminus, NOED, No Way Out, Remember Me, Fire Up, Blood Warden all give a killer a better chance in the end game which, if more than 3 survivors plan on escaping, needs to happen
    • End Game Collapse puts a set timer on the survivors and if they haven't escaped when the timer goes off, they are automatically sacrificed

    You can make your arguments that these aren't as effective as you would like but you can't really deny that there aren't mechanics to help killers as the match goes on and "catch up" to survivors. I also find it absolutely silly that so many people saw this comment and didn't take the two minutes to actually think about it. The Us vs Them remains strong as always.


    As for the original post, I absolutely think the crows need to be improved and start revealing survivors after a set amount of time with no/limited gen progress. It may be true that it is an issue that survivors don't feel they have a chance to comeback in these style of games but prolonging it is just painful for everyone. The 30 minute 3-gen slog was addressed because of how terribly boring it was, I see this as similar enough to be addressed in some manner.

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 431
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    It doesn't really matter when the end result is 1 hour match with no interaction between killers and survivors, be it genuinely wanting to hatch or not, it should not be allowed

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,396
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    Unless you just want everyone dead after two Survivors die, this is the way to do it.

    Killers can reasonably catch up at any point. We see it literally all the time via over-altruistic plays.

    You want people to play? Give them a reason to. When there's two Survivors left, they're playing for Hatch and that's a ######### way to do things. Nobody is saying trigger EGC or make them 120% MS. Make them feel like they've got a chance.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,396
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    They were in the wrong for messaging you, you were also definitely acting childish for, "grown man btw i checked".

    Realistically, what do you want them to do? There's no way they can win, they'd be throwing to work on gens. They're playing to win via getting Hatch. It's a ######### mechanic that promotes bad gameplay and there needs to be something else.

  • StalkingYou
    StalkingYou Member Posts: 34
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    I viewed his profile to report him and his details were there. All I saw was his age and gender. Pointing out that a grown man was acting so petty does not mean I am childish.

  • goodfriday
    goodfriday Member Posts: 209
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    Can we please do something about killers slugging for the 4k am tired of having to suffer 4 precious min because every minute of mine is important to me. 3k is a big win but no killer must waste a person time to look for the last person .

  • burt0r
    burt0r Member Posts: 4,072
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    Egc camping? Never done.

    Mass slugging? never done in my last two years of playing.

    (I made it an experiment to see how grateful/which feedback survivor would give a friendly/fair killer. Hint: It wasn't worth it.)

    My point about the perks also, give me an answer that won't be complained about by survivors like the camping, slugging or perks mentioned above.

    3 said survivor with 3+ gens to go? How does that even happen without them not sticking to gens and/or the 4th exiting early on hook?

    2 survivor left without gates powered? I would say they lost. End of story, get to read it often enough that killer have lost with 4 survivor alive and gates powered/opened.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,072
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    I would say use Ultimate weapon, but that is not going to work for long, because they want Distortion to be an ultimate counter perk for some reason…

  • RoastedGarlic
    RoastedGarlic Member Posts: 532
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    me too but more often than not when the killer does approach me while im on a gen, they will slug me for the 4k. So either way it blows.

  • Araphex
    Araphex Member Posts: 686
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  • Royval
    Royval Member Posts: 199
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    It shouldn’t cost a perk slot to find survivors hiding for 20 mins.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,072
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    There is many things that shouldn't cost a perk in theory, but they do. That's how DBD works.

    You want to find a survivor? Get a perk, or killer that can do it.

    But the issue is only viable perks for it are going to be Whispers, or Spies from the Shadows. Standard information perks won't really help against this.

  • Dream_Whisper
    Dream_Whisper Member Posts: 714
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    Yeah something like AFK crow mechanic being more impacted like if survivors spend literally more then a minute not touching a single objective or doing any productive or interactive; the crows just appear and caws. But instead they Buff them to reveal survivors for the killer.

  • bakedpot8oes
    bakedpot8oes Member Posts: 19
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    you can’t punish immersive gameplay, they’re literally playing the game as intended. hiding from the killer. it’s is your job to find them.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 71
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    They said you did "camp at the start", really? If you did that, so it was your fault, don't blame why they held the game hostage. You acted as a bad killer, so they reflected your playstyle.

    HOWEVER…

    If you well played with the e-sports spirit, I totally agree with you, they should be stopped somehow. I also met so many matches like that where I did a good play but they acted like cowards (only hide as you said, do nothing, even from the beginning, they just ignore their teammates).

    A good game is where the killers don't try to camp and tunnel just to secure at least 1 kill (from the beginning), and the survivors never ignore teammates, always try to finish their jobs even in tough situations, not try to do endless hiding.

    When playing as a solo survivor, I also hate teammates who act like cowards, especially in the late game. Sometimes, I luckily match with the killers who understand that kind of situation, and they gift mercy to me who trying to do gen while killing the cowards who only hiding somewhere.

    FINALLY…

    The trash killers should be prevented somehow, and the cowardly survivors should also be prevented somehow.

    If someone is so afraid of death that they don't dare to do anything, then play killer, and in reverse, if someone is afraid of not being able to kill someone without camping or tunneling, then play survivors.

    😏😏😏😏😏😏😏😏

  • StalkingYou
    StalkingYou Member Posts: 34
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    there is a difference between hiding from the killer to not get caught and hiding from the killer to purposely waste their time while you are doing nothing productive in the match

    this opinion has been brought up many times and each time the devs say its bannable behavior

  • FilthyLegionRevival
    FilthyLegionRevival Member Posts: 303
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    Not holding the game hostage. It may suck when it happens because it's annoying looking around for survivors skulking around like roaches but it's not holding the game hostage like a killer blocking a survivor in a corner.

  • AfraidMonsters
    AfraidMonsters Member Posts: 24
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    Semi-related to this, (I thought this is what the forum post was about when I read the title), I've suggested to them in BHVR's ticket system thing, that they should seriously add a passive feature where if the killer, or a survivor, is AFK standing still for 4 minutes into a round, they should be automatically kicked. If killer is kicked, obviously the match ends.

    If survivor is kicked, they get replaced with a bot.

    This should seriously already be a thing. When killers AFK, the survivors are literally held hostage. when a survivor AFKs, the game is already over and ruined. I think anyone AFK for 4 minutes in the match, at any time, should be auto kicked. maybe for the killer 8 minutes instead.

  • StalkingYou
    StalkingYou Member Posts: 34
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    trying to justify the other side committing a bannable offense because the killer did something that many see as a "dirty tactic" is insane.

    camping serves a purpose and it progresses the game. holding the game hostage does not.

    imagine if you cut me off on the road and in return I slashed your tires, wouldn't be a problem I guess because im just reflecting your rudeness

  • FilthyLegionRevival
    FilthyLegionRevival Member Posts: 303
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    And you can actually do something about survivors crouching around unlike the latter one. Your point?

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 431
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    The point is whether it's realistic or not, and realistically you can't do anything in reasonable time against those who crouching around

    This is not a strict rule of "whether you can TECHNICALLY do something or not", but more of "people should play normally and stop griefing"

  • FilthyLegionRevival
    FilthyLegionRevival Member Posts: 303
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    Then just call it griefing and not holding the game hostage my strict ahh brain will pull an "umm ackshually" otherwise. I CAN'T TAKE INCORRECT FACTS! Anyway, if we wanted a solution to that, we could potentially have something where bubbles will appear on both survivors every 30 seconds or so if no one progresses a generator for enough progress. Another idea I had in mind was having the hatch spawn at two survivors but only one survivor could open it to escape while the other one is immediately sacrificed, making it a race between the two to see who can escape first. If the killer camps it, you can do gens while they're busy. If they stop camping to chase someone who comes near it, you can make use of that opening to get to the hatch and leave. I know there's the whole issue of "but people will just slug at three people". People have already been doing that before with the last survivor spawning hatch thing and this new system with three survivors being slugged will be harder to do than with having only two people left and slugging them. If they're able to get a slug going at three people, something was done wrong on the survivor end as you're able to not let a killer do that.

  • StalkingYou
    StalkingYou Member Posts: 34
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    Devs call it taking the game hostage, so I'm going to call it the same.

  • Sarrif
    Sarrif Member Posts: 68
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    The killers catch up mechanic is that once endgame hits unless they don't know what they are doing they are guaranteed 1 kill no matter what survivors do.

  • CrypticGirl
    CrypticGirl Member Posts: 486
    edited April 22
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    Pause the hook timer if the Killer is 7 feet (I assume you mean meters?) away or closer?  And remove the self-unhook and not deactivate that in endgame?  So if the teammates don't save the poor person, the sacrifice doesn't progress at all and the poor person can't unhook themselves?  Should they just hang there forever if the Killer doesn't leave?

    Sounds like holding the game hostage to me...

    Post edited by Rizzo on
  • dbdplayerabc123
    dbdplayerabc123 Member Posts: 70
    edited April 21
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  • _Onyx_
    _Onyx_ Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 342
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    I think there should be a mechanic in place throughout the entirety of the match. If a Survivor isn't doing anything related to actual interactive gameplay for X amount of time, then they're revealed to the Killer. That includes everything, not being chased, not healing, not repairing, not unhooking, if they haven't done anything like this for a good amount of time then they're revealed.

    This would be good for multiple reasons. One, you don't get held hostage at late game when the match is over and no one wants to be found. Two, Survivors that spawn in just to troll their teammates for whatever reason cannot do that anymore, coz to avoid it they'd actually have to do something to help them progress the game in some shape or form.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
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    Perhaps a feature at this point in the game where crows notify the killer where the survivors are because objectives haven’t been worked on for X amount of seconds.


    If this sounds like a bad idea Whispers is an option. I know I know a perk shouldn’t be the solution, but hear me out. There was a span of a few weeks where I kept running into this issue but that perk helped so much.

    Another possible mechanic would be a scream followed by a notification?


    I am not sure. 🤔

    The survivors are at a huge disadvantage at this point but they shouldn’t be “compensated” 2 survivors are dead. The killer was working on his objective while the other 2 survivors are just hiding.

  • _Onyx_
    _Onyx_ Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 342
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    That's for being idle.

    There's situations where a Survivor is actively 'playing' but not doing anything to progress the game. Like the OP mentioned in their example. There are other examples too.

    Specifically I would suggest they're revealed via Killer Instinct if they haven't been actively progressing the game in any significant manner for longer than 180 seconds. The Survivor would also have a constantly cawing crow over their head to let them know that they've triggered this mechanic.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 71
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    As I said after the "FINALLY…" world (in the previous reply)!!

    So you did admit your playing style is dirty? If so, you wasted their time for connecting the match with you, because you did not invite them to participate in the game, so they also have the right to retaliate, they are willing to waste their time just to make you too. feel as annoyed as they were at the beginning of the game.

    About "bannable offense" list, it's just a matter of listing at BHVR's discretion!! In this situation, it's about the emotional side of the game. Just like in real life, in a friendly card game, you are constantly forced to lose by 3 other players. Although it is not forbidden, you will feel like you are not "entertained" in the game. Not being able to enjoy the game properly, and you may have the mentality of trying to sabotage the match.

    Again, if you can't kill in fair play, it's about your skill, don't blame the survivors when they also react in the negative ways.

    Hmm…

    I would like to repeat what I have mentioned in previous reply here:

    "If someone is so afraid of death that they don't dare to do anything, then play killer, and in reverse, if someone is afraid of not being able to kill someone without camping or tunneling, then play survivors."

    I mean, you should play survivor instead. If you encounter a few situations similar to this, you will understand why.

  • Onako
    Onako Member Posts: 63
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    I still remember how it was totally okay for killers to pick the most oppresive area lockdown killers (Hag, Knight, Skull Merchant), force a 3 Gen and then keep that game hostage for 30+ minutes just to tell the survivors to "suck it up" or "simply play better". So yeah… what goes around comes back around I guess.

    Besides, isn't it kind of the point of this game? Survivors hiding from the killer and the killer finding them?

  • StalkingYou
    StalkingYou Member Posts: 34
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    ok next time I play killer and the survivors are doing gens very fast I will bodyblock one of them in the corner until the server dies because they didn't let me play the game long enough due to their very fast objective speed and that will be perfectly fine thank you for the advice

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 71
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    Ya, it is really the point of this game. However, it would be completely different if the Survivors didn't even do anything even when the Killer was far away. In reserve, it would be a real problem if the Killers only focused on finding and killing (by camping, tunneling) exactly 1 Survivor. I always tell people, if they want to know how a GG is, just watch some tournaments.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 71
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    Haha LOL, you're so funny, and toxic mind, bro!!

    Ya, I agree that you can do some tricks when face up with a party (I mean a true party of 4-man SWFs), but you know, most of survivors must co-op with strangers (that is a big disadvantage), and sometimes, they have to pair up with cowardly teammates (who try to survive alone, not dare to do rescue or do gens, wait for teammates to die to escape via the hatch...). Furthermore, they don't know which perks their teammates use to make their good choices to create the best combination. If the whole team go with gens perks, they gens will fly, but in that case, it means they don't have many good perks in chasing or escaping. In reverse, if they're a bully team with many surviving perks, it means that the gens will walk slowly unless they're good at looping, and you're bad at chasing and killing. Remember, you always have perks options to help slow down gens significantly.

    If you bodyblock a Survivor just because of that, then surely you may not be able to get 1 kill if you encounter a good team, the 3 others will complete 5 gens and then take actions to protect and save that teammate. You will be mad on your own, then everyone will be toxic towards you in the chat dialogue.

    I bet when you play as a Survivor, you keep getting killed (even though the Killers doesn't even have a tunneling or camping action), and you'll ask why can't I do gens fly, or why the killers' base kit are too OP :))))). Then you'll be mad, and back to play as a Killer again, then you'll ask why the heck do gens fly :))). It's truly a cycle for you.

    I wonder, why don't you play Survivor more to understand what I'm talking about, and why don't you watch more tournaments (on YouTube) to learn how to play better?

    And I have advice for you: don't put too much emphasis on winning and losing in this game. Just relax, it's okay if you don't kill anyone, it's okay if you don't survive, as long as you had interesting chases, and you played well, and you were lucky enough to meet opponents who also played well, and give each other the word "GG" after every match.

    I have 1 video for your reference. It was in an old patch. However, you can somehow understand how high-rank Killers make the most of their abilities. Everyone knows what the 3-gen strategy is, but how many people are good enough to do it? Truly, I'm not, I'm just a normal player looking for entertainment.

  • adsads123123123123
    adsads123123123123 Member Posts: 870
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    Anyone defending this behavior is definitely a biased survivor main. Anyone who has ever played against survivors hiding for 20-30 minutes would describe it as the most boring experience ever.