RIP Ultimate weapon

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That change is just terrible. One try 32 meters around the locker.

Ultimate weapon was so good, because you could always find a chase. It fails to do that now, at least unreliable.

Screaming is worse in most situations than aura reveal, but Ultimate weapon was so good to find hinding survivors. It's terrible at that now.

Can't you just make it, so effect is still your Terror radius, but effect stops after first scream?
That way it can't be abused by fast killers, but still does its job at reliable search for next chase.

Comments

  • GeneralSkien
    GeneralSkien Member Posts: 114
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    It isn't too bad, the fact they brought back the scream effect means it will be good in the distortion meta

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 6,721
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    at least pig can still use the perk properly to get head-pops if the player is competent. that is really nice.

  • BlackRose89
    BlackRose89 Member Posts: 195
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    I don't know how I feel about UW right now. Like I'm happy the scream is staying since it being a aura reading perks meant just another info perk getting hard counter by distortion. That said I'm not sure if this is going to be all that useful. It's hard to say personally. Honestly I just wish they did something to Distortion bc I hate this perk counters every aura reading perks and is so easy and free to use. Ppl complain how free current UW was while distortion is just as free since you rarely ever run out of stacks.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,072
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    That playstyle is mostly dead without aura reading on boxes…

    I doubt even they will use it over Face the Darkness, if that is what they are going for.

  • GeneralSkien
    GeneralSkien Member Posts: 114
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    you underestimate how large 32 Meters is, additionally it now works with stealth killers, allowing for even more powerful combos with pig or other stealth killers. Also what? Ultimate weapon was downright broken on high mobility killers, it was good with normal killers but with killers like blight nurse and spirit it was too strong.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 6,721
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    if you say so. I am going miss having info on Oni, Doctor and Singularity. Oh well.

  • LeFennecFox
    LeFennecFox Member Posts: 1,177
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    If it goes live with the changed cooldown it's a dead perk for sure. It needed nerfed 100% and this is the right direction just the wrong numbers.

  • Ohyakno
    Ohyakno Member Posts: 427
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    All they needed to do was make it so one survivor screams instead of it being a following scream aura. Maybe bump up the cooldown.

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 8,910
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    The perk is now just a perk for hook camping. Hook survivor, open locker, and now killer knows if survivors are nearby hook.

    This version is going to end up just as disliked bc the only killers running it will be those camping.

  • KazRen
    KazRen Member Posts: 158
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    Yeah this version of UW seems pretty bad. 32 meter is ok but on most maps it's not that good. Also I don't think the devs said they reduced the cooldown from the ptb version so it might still have a really long cooldown.

  • Batusalen
    Batusalen Member Posts: 1,211
    edited April 19
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    The best part for me is that this perk was only useful for high mobility killers for the most part, and it didn't even have a high pick rate. They nerf it anyway, making it worse but somewhat still useful… so then they make sure it is not useful for anybody.

    I guess the plan was never to balance it but to make it useless (especially for high mobility killers, for what they said in the devlog).

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,039
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    It's not really any worse than before for any killer that isn't one of the ultra-high mobility ones.

    Before the change, UW was kind of mid when run on immobile killers, and decent enough on the best-case-scenario high speed killers like Blight or Billy. It also had a lower end than even that, though, because it was also totally useless on stealth killers.

    Now, it's just pretty average on everyone. In all fairness, that was the goal, addressing how obnoxious it was on the high-speed killers while not harming it too much for everyone else. In fact, it got very slightly better for a reasonable number of the cast, which is a nice bonus.

    All in all, eh, it's fine. A mid perk gets a bit more usable on most of the cast, and a fair bit weaker on a select few. It's not great but it's not the end of the world.

  • Batusalen
    Batusalen Member Posts: 1,211
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    Just curious, in what killers do you see yourself using UW now efficiently, instead of using any other option?

    Me, like any other "locker perk", in Huntress and Trickster as I will open lockers anyway. And even with them, I think there are better info options.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,039
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    I wouldn't, because I don't think Ultimate Weapon is a good perk.

    I think it's usable, but there are better options. That hasn't changed.

  • HolyDarky
    HolyDarky Member Posts: 244
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    I agree that UW needed a nerf and the PTB rework was a cool idea even though it kinda outclassed Darkness Revealed and Lethal Pursuer. But this new rework feels really underwhelming. In theory Huntress, Trickster as well as stealth killers can use this perk effectively, other perks will be more reliable and better. As a result, I agree this perk will be a bad one which is really sad.

    It is also weird that the developers want to make this perk more fair that high mobility killers don't have an extra advantage over non mobility killers when they use this perk. High mobility killers will always have some kind of advantage when using an infoperk because they have the mobility ability to get more value out of them.

  • Batusalen
    Batusalen Member Posts: 1,211
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    That's the thing. In my opinion, if it really were usable now, you would be able to think of at least a killer that could make the perk work. Even when Undone was announced I could have argued that you could make an impossible-skillcheck build for the Doctor with it.

    I can't think of any build for any killer where the new UW would give any value.

  • fussy
    fussy Member Posts: 1,159
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    With 30 sec cd it could be not bad, but with 60 sec cd it's just trash sadly.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,039
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    I mean, any killer?

    I would say the only killers who are at a disadvantage using it are pure stealth killers, because they don't want survivors to know they're being revealed. That's already a huge downside of Ultimate Weapon on any killer, but it's especially potent of a downside for stealth killers who can actually hide their approach too.

    But take a killer like, say, Clown. Right now, he can use UW fine, he can open a locker and use that scream to get into a chase on a slight delay. After the changes… he could use it just fine, opening a locker to get into a chase on a slight delay or to confirm there's nobody nearby. It's a mediocre perk and it'll remain a mediocre perk.

    Even higher speed killers can still use it just fine. There will just continue to be better choices on them as with everyone else.

    If I wanted to run the perk, it'd be usable on most killers. I just don't want to because I'd rather use other perks, personally.

    It's an overrated perk. It's not that good, it's just obnoxious to face, which is why a nerf was warranted.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,072
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    Ultimate weapon was downright broken on high mobility killers

    Yeah and change I suggested would fix it, while make it viable.

    additionally it now works with stealth killers

    Yeah and it's really bad. Why would you as stealth killer want to announce where you are to everyone around you? It worked on Pig even before this gutting change.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,072
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    It's not really any worse than before for any killer that isn't one of the ultra-high mobility ones.

    It's a lot worse. I don't know if you ever even used that perk, but it happens quite often you open a locker and nothing, then you need to walk in some direction to find a survivor.

    That won't work right now. It's just gamble, wasted time to walk to locker, open a locker, no information given with high cooldown. Why would I ever use it over Nowhere to hide? That works on every killer and it is connected to another useful action.

    But hey you scream, so works against distortion, if you manage to be so lucky that player is 32 meters around you when you open the locker. Good luck with that.

    That perk is simply garbage now. I would rather use Whispers then that, if I want to hunt distortion players.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,039
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    I don't know why you'd use it over something like Nowhere To Hide. Those perks are, and will continue to be, better than Ultimate Weapon.

    After this change goes live, it'll actually be kinda similar to Whispers, so that's a good example. You open a locker, and if you hear a scream, great, you get that info. If you don't hear a scream, nobody's nearby, which is also info. It's fine. It's slightly better than before on immobile killers and moderately worse on high mobility killers.

    I have used the perk. It's solidly "okay" on high mobility killers and mediocre at best on immobile killers. Now it's just solidly okay on everyone. They definitely could've changed it in a better way than this, but the end result here isn't all that bad, either. From mid overall but inconsistent between killers, to just mid on everyone. In some ways that is an improvement.

    Actually, there's one thing I'm curious about, which will impact the perk's strength. Have they removed the active duration/cooldown split? I'm assuming they have, so it's just that it goes on cooldown when you open the locker. If so, that does mean the overall cooldown should be lower than before, but if they haven't, it does make the perk actually kind of interesting to use because you'd kind of have a minefield of potential info that could be completely across the map from you.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,072
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    It's slightly better than before on immobile killers

    How exactly is it better? It's less reliable information perk. It is not going to bring you into the chase every time. It's simply worse.

    moderately worse on high mobility killers

    It's just trash compare to effectivness it had on fast mobility killers. Mainly on Oni. He was kinda broken with it, so this version is just garbage compare to it.

    Actually, there's one thing I'm curious about, which will impact the perk's strength.

    If it has 60 seconds cooldown, then it is literally waste of slot. Just terrible.

    If it has 30 seconds cooldown, it's less trash, but still inferior to most information perks currently use, even Whispers.

    It does kinda similar job, but Whispers doesn't have cooldown and doesn't waste any of your time trying to find and open a locker.

  • BlackRose89
    BlackRose89 Member Posts: 195
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    "additionally it now works with stealth killers"

    If it was an aura perk and didn't have the blindness effect I would agree with you but why would any stealth killer want to run this perk? Say you playing GF and you open a locker and you make ppl scream within the 32m. Good job you just told those survivors you are in the area and they are now on full alert. You not going to sneak up on anyone with this perk as a stealth killer, it be like sneaking up on someone with your TR on. The only scream info perk that is good on stealth killers is Face The Darkness imo since even if they scream they still don't know if you near them or not.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,039
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    In order:

    1: Me saying it's slightly better on immobile killers is dependant on the cooldown being shorter overall. If it is, then the perk is slightly better on killers who couldn't maximise their use out of it before. Additionally, it now working like Whispers where it not revealing survivors is actionable information makes it a little more potent on immobile killers because they have less leeway to look for survivors in empty areas.

    A mobile killer can make up for that lost time easily, but an immobile one needs to walk away manually. Knowing to leave straight away is more useful on immobile killers than mobile ones— and now that there's no upper level of value you could get with more mobility, that means the relative strength on immobile killers is a little higher. It's not much, but it's something.

    To be clear: Not straight stronger, but stronger relative to before. Before, immobile killers got less use out of it, now they get slightly more compared to high mobility killers. The gap has been shrunk, which independent of anything else is a good thing.

    2: Ultimate Weapon was never that great on mobile killers. It was fundamentally "pretty good", because it was relatively consistent but weak information. It's moderately worse now because travelling the map with your own sonar system was pretty good and now you can't do that, but mobile killers still get to act on the screams quicker than others, so it's not useless or trash. It's just the same as it is for any other killer now: Fine, but outclassed.

    3: This point I agree with, 60 second cooldown on this version of the effect would be too high. I don't know so much about "trash", because it'd still have uses for action interruption and for applying Blindness on top of its information still being okay when it activates, but it would be too weak.

    30 second cooldown (or somewhere between) would indeed make it STILL inferior to a lot of other information perks, which means it'd ultimately be acceptable. I don't personally see why you'd run any version of Ultimate Weapon on a majority of killers and in a majority of builds, but it's also not so useless that you couldn't use it, you'd still get value from it.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,072
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     Ultimate Weapon was never that great on mobile killers

    lol…

    There was not a better perk on Oni. That perk allowed best snowball in the game, because you could simply find everyone.

    moderately worse 

    You just either don't realize how good it was on mobile killers, or how bad it is going to be overall, or both…

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,039
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    Anything a mobile killer could do with Ultimate Weapon, they could do with a few other info perks, and those perks would also give the survivors less time to react.

    Oni in his power is probably the best case scenario for the perk, since you're on a timer to get the information, but when it comes to the other mobile killers there are just other options that are going to be stronger overall. It was pretty decent on those mobile killers at the expense of it being almost unusable on most other killers, now it's just "fine" on everyone.

    I realise exactly how good it was on mobile killers. I also already know how much a lot of the community undervalues the other information perks.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,072
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    Anything a mobile killer could do with Ultimate Weapon, they could do with a few other info perks

    Yeah, that seems like you never played mobile killer with Ultimate weapon. Only thing that comes even remotely close is Infectious Fright, when we talk about snowball potencial. But Ultimate weapon was way better for that, not anymore…

    I realise exactly how good it was on mobile killers

    Doesn't seem like it.

    I also already know how much a lot of the community undervalues the other information perks.

    There is quite a few valid options, but most of them are not working against Distortion. Even Ultimate weapon won't be viable for that aspect. Only thing left is Whispers for that job.

    Lethal pursuer + nowhere to hide is going to replace Ultimate weapon on fast killers, or just BBQ.

    I can't imagine build, where I would use Ultimate weapon now. In every scenerio, I can easily find better option. It already wasn't clear winner in my opinion except few killers, but it's just bad in every situation after this change.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,235
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    This on top of the 60 seconds cooldown really makes this more of a: "Check, if you are actually already where you need to be" kind of perk. That's really terrible. You either know where to go (otherwise you wouldn't be in range for it) or you use a perk that tells you. UW doesn't do that anymore. A shame really because it was the first genuinely good perk to apply Blindness and counter everyone's favorite Crutch of Opportunity.

    One more perk disappearing into the void, I guess. As if we didn't have enough of those already.

  • Skillfulstone
    Skillfulstone Member Posts: 485
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    Honestly, nobody should be surprised that the perk got destroyed, just look at Sloppy and STBFL (the former is unusable against Survivors that can handle being injured for a bit and the latter is unusable on hybrid Killers and much weaker outside of proxy-camping which literally was the only issue with the perk in the first place and the only thing hardly affected).

    Lots of people were complaining about Ultimate Weapon (for valid and not-so-valid reasons) almost since release and since it was particularly potent on high-mobility/High-tier Killers then they had to address it somehow to try to help Killer variety (something that's been discouraged more and more almost every update since 7.5.0). Worst thing is that high-mobility Killers will still be able to use this perk much better than others for obvious reasons but now weaker Killers can barely use it outside of a few situations.

    It's easier to simply destroy the perk, silencing threads about it and making it almost equally worthless across the board, than trying to adjust it so that it stays good without removing yet another option to weaker/M1 Killers.

    Side-note: Due to it being a fixed zone, the perk will now be mainly used for 2 things.

    1: Checking to see if any Survivors are near after hooking someone (ideal for campers).

    2: A quick insta-chase reset if losing sight of a Survivor in chase and a locker happens to be there.

  • tubalcane
    tubalcane Member Posts: 149
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    The BHVR mgmt is terrified of the survivors. They bend over backwards for them.

  • adsads123123123123
    adsads123123123123 Member Posts: 870
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    Ultimate Weapon was a mid tier perk. Survivors are going to have a worse time now that UW is useless and killers will use better perks.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,072
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    Not really, because it is going to be replaced with information perk most likely and most of them get countered by Distortion.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,039
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    Do we actually know that it'll have a sixty second cooldown? I don't remember if that part was in the dev update we got, or whether they talked elsewhere about that + whether the active duration/cooldown split is going to remain.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,235
    edited April 20
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    It already has a 60 seconds cooldown and because it wasn't mentioned again, we can assume that this will remain.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,039
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    I don't know, usually that's the case but in this specific instance I feel like there's some ambiguity.

    Like, they didn't mention anything about the active duration/cooldown split, is that staying? It would kinda make sense either way, and it definitely changes how we should rate the perk depending on which direction they go.

  • IlessThenThreeDevour
    IlessThenThreeDevour Member Posts: 6
    edited April 21
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    ultimate game sense was both overtuned and just a crutch for people who dont have simple tracking ability, never felt the need to run it in my games and I did just fine, at best I might use lethal pursuer just so I can pinpoint survivor spawn rotation but it only worked once per match unless u brought additional aura perks

    I dont know why people have such difficulty to locate survivors, most players even with stealth cosmetics can be seen cross map majority of the times

    just search common areas and its gg

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,072
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    crutch for people who dont have simple tracking ability

    If this is going to be argument for nerfing something, then I can easily bring WoO…

    Basically for every perk in DBD, I can just say it's cruch for what it does. That's kinda the point of perks, to help you in areas you want. Some killers need help with pressure, early game, chase, informations… Same for survivors.

    This simply doesn't make any sense.

    I dont know why people have such difficulty to locate survivors

    Depends what survivors you play against, if survivor decides to hide, killer without tracking will just never find them.

    I prefer to avoid scenerio where I am searching for last two survivors for half an hour…

    If you don't see value of information perks, then you do you, but that's not really argument for nerfing a perk anyway.

    Only issue with Ultimate weapon were fast killers, this nerf definetly fix that issue, but also completely kills that perk with it, which is not really good balancing approach in my opinion.

  • BlackRose89
    BlackRose89 Member Posts: 195
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    I mean good for you! Not everyone is you tho and everyone has different ranges of skills they can achieve in this game and other games. If your reasoning to nerf a perk no less make the perk useless is that bc it's a crutch perk then that is just silly in my opinion. Any useful perk on either side can be considered a "crutch" perk. I just name killers to avoid ppl saying making an us vs them post but NOED, SBFL, any gen regression perk, bamboozle, etc all could be considered crutch perks bc they help you in different ways. Do you need these perks? No, but they do help just like how UW and other info perks help with finding ppl.

    Here is a question for you since you say you do not need a crutch like UW. Do you play perkless then? If you don't then I think you little bit of a hypocrite. I am sure you seek help in other perks on your killer builds and by your statement, those can be considered as crutch since Im sure someone out there doesn't need those perks to win.

    I'm not saying UW didn't need a nerf, I think it was overturned. It was just a tool just like any other perk in the game to help the player out which is what perks are for. Now this perk was nerfed to the ground and isnt really that useful and that's my issue with it. I don't like useless perks on either side and I hate it even more when a great perk gets a nerf that just completely makes it useless.