General Discussions
General Discussions
New Ds
a lot of people say survivors use decisive aggressively but what people don’t understand is that tunnel is tunnel you should know who you’ve already hooked and just because they hide in a locker you still choose to tunnel so I don’t see it as a big issue due to the fact the old ds the 3 sec stun was useless and now it’s buffer people already complaining?? Maybe stop tunneling and get good at the game?? Make it make sense
Comments
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How can you avoid tunneling them if they're deliberately body blocking for the survivor you're trying to down?
I haven't actually had issues with aggressive DS plays (yet), but just saying that getting stabbed by DS doesn't necessarily mean that the killer tunneled.
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I would do this:
Increas the stun duration to 6 seconds. (extra 1 sec)
However the moment Killer hooks someone else the perk deactivates to make it really anti-tunnel.
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Makes hook trading too strong.
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Yeah sure, if DS user aggressively bodyblocks the killer, that killer should just stand still, wait for DS User to leave himself, then only start moving. Doing anything else is called tunnelling.
GOOD
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Just don't pick them up once they go down. They'll waste their own time more than yours.
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If someone tried to bodyblock me with DS and I would know they have it... I would down them and leave them slugged.
And if they have Unbreakable, who cares? They have to spend some time on the ground and in the grand scheme of things, they're throwing the game trying to get value.
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I think survivors should just lose collision with the killer for some time after the unhook. Its still possible to tank a hit this way, but its a lot harder.
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Well said.
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Incoming unbreakable.
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I doubt it will happen because DS doesn't just "disincentivize tunneling", DS also punishes quick downs on mobile Killers.
Take a Blight with bbq for instance. Blight hooks A, goes for B far away from the hook thanks to bbq and downs B quickly. C unhooks A just as B gets hooked. Blight sees C healing A at the hook and heads over because pressuring both Survivors would force D to get off the gen and go for the unhook on B. Blight goes for A thanks to the blood stains and downs them, gets hit by DS on the pickup.Should the Blight deserve the DS because they tunneled or because they were doing their objective too fast? (Starting and ending a new chase quickly and returning to interrupt a heal)
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So you are saying that I should be punished for playing the game as it was meant to be played. Okay
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If you couldn't make 3s ds work maybe you should get good at the game? This is ignoring the fact people can run the same survivor & cosmetics to make it harder to know who is who.
Post edited by LeFennecFox on4 -
Ohh, my bad. I shouldn't have tried to chase someone other than the person with DS because if they come to take a hit then obviously I'm tunneling. Basically to avoid tunneling I now have to stand still at the edge of the map until the DS is gone.
DS used aggressively means a survivor puts the killer in a lose-lose situation with it. This happens when they can stick around with a flashlight / flashbang and when they start bodyblocking. Going into a locker only makes sure the killer will not be able to slug them either. Honestly, since the update went live, I've tunneled more than I did in the past 1 1/2 years and it will only continue to get worse as more survivors use DS as a weapon instead of a last line of defense.
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Then they're dropping two perks and a bunch of slug time, plus extra idle time while fishing for an opportunity, on one bodyblock. Resurgence would probably work better.
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When Blight sees that A has just been pulled off the hook and decides to go for A, yes, that is tunnelling.
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Isn't that what they did back in 2020 that people hated? Because it basically forced you to get a weapon swipe via downing them. Then have to make up the distance to chase your initial target again? Except now they can use stuff like OTR and block you twice. And if you pick them up you get stunned. If you leave them on the floor they are allowed to get up with no consequence through unbreakable. Basically there's no winning for the killer here because the survivors can just use their perks as shields for their teammates. A true tunneler will honestly just hard focus them to get them out of the match as fast as possible. Meaning they don't have to deal with all this. A fair killer has to either decide to take them out of the game to prevent them from being aggresive with it or just let them go scott free after they already ruined the killers chase they had. Like I love the perks I use them to. They are nice when your actually being hard focused out. But when I'm playing the other side and survivors just want to flaunt it and be aggressive. I'm taking them out for it.
Post edited by supersonic853 on5 -
If you leave them on the floor they are allowed to get up with no consequence.
I must've missed the patch where survivors can now instantly recover from the dying state, basekit.
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You know what I meant. If the killer doesn't just camp the slug to wait out the DS and they have unbreakable. Because i was speaking to a killer trying to play fair and chase different survivors. But eitherway if you don't wanna actually argue the point of the post. You do you. These perks may be a shield but they can also be a very sharp sword if used in a different way.
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That's not 'no consequence', though! That's the point! Two perks and a bunch of downtime for a survivor you're not pressuring, how's that a problem?
Yeah, the scenario seems very unfair to the killer if you ignore every detriment to the survivor.
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You do know how much consequence this is to the killer as well though right? Survivor gets unhooked. They have the trifecta let's say for the sake of my arguement. They see their healthy teammate being chased. They get in the killers way. Killer smacks them. (2.7 second weapon swipe) and the survivor runs forward before bodyblocking again. Killer downs them (2.7 seconds again not counting the chase time we could say 10 seconds for brevity). The survivors down now. The killer can choose to go continue their chase with the healthy survivor where they gotta catch back up again first and not to mention any loops that survivor has now gotten to. They can camp the survivor on the floor for the rest of their ds time. (Which means they are buying time for their rest of their team on gens) or the killer can pick them up and get this over with which hits them with a 5 second stun and they gotta re-down the survivor again. All of this is happening while 2 survivors can still be holding that gen button. Who's losing more time here really? Especially if the killer camps the slug the 3rd survivor is now also free to go do some gens. Not every killer can be everywhere at once. Sometimes even the little times matter a lot. (Realized I never mentioned unbreakable but don't really need to since the killer still has to wait out ds anyway to even pick up) and the survivor can do this every unhook if you don't burn the ds on the first pick up. Say they picked themselves up with unbreakable the first time. They'll just do it their next unhook and this time they need a teammate. Congrats.
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Your whole scenario has 5 survivors on the block, dude.
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Sounds like everyone has their own definition of tunneling and everyone is just arguing past each other when discussing tunnneling. No wonder there's no end to the debate.
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if their body blocking with DS slug lol
If they have Unbreakable good then they just wasted their unbreakable everything is pretty much a net worth for you
The survivors waste their own time by trying to sabotage you and you literally profit off of that as killer by just playing smart and not picking up and simply ignoring them and focus whoever you’re chasing
The stun duration increasing doesn’t increase this strategies effectiveness honestly nothing about this strategy changed even after the buff lol what I said applies to it and completely dismantles using anti-tunnel perks aggressively
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When survivors wear the same cosmetics and I don’t get to see there hook states it’s not up to me to figure out who I have and have not hooked. If someone unhooks you and I return to hook to see you work on a nearby Gen instead of taking the heal and I kill you, I did not tunnel in that scenario. There is a reason why DS deactivates when progressing the game.
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Ironically enough, people in my matches that try to use DS (and also OTR) aggressively to body block for free tend to get tunnelled way more often then people that aren’t stupid and actually use the perk as intended
Almost as if sacrificing all of your defences for a stupid bodyblock isn’t worth it ever and just results in you dying faster, who could have possibly seen that coming
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How so? I literally said. One survivors on gens already. One survivor was on hook and is now unhooked. The survivor who unhooked them goes back to doing a gen. The survivor does all that, blocking the killer who's in chase with the only survivor not doing gens. The killer has to let the chased survivor go because the unhooked survivor has taken all their attention so they can do gens now as well. That's still all 4 accounted for. Now are you gonna tell me what the killer should do against this? Because I'm also doing my job while trying to explain this to you.
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You could count to ten to avoid the BT. Or switch to target the unhooker.
That is, if this scenario ever occurs, considering the conditions you've heaped on it.
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How if they have OTR and they are bodyblocking you? I said this in the post as well. And you'd be surprised how many people do this because it's effective. If you have endurance and ds and unbreakable. Why not just stall the killer with them? There's literally nothing the killer can do because they have to hit the unhooked twice. Leave them on the floor which they'll get back up. Or eat the DS. I'm starting to feel we don't play the same game strength. And conditions? The survivor has 3 fairly strong at high mmr perks. They try to force them on the killer in the ways that are easiest. Conditions met. Unless I missed a patch where you can go through enduranced survivors so they can't bodyblock you with otr. Wouldn't that be something?
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That's three perks now! That's just about an entire build going up to two bodyblocks.
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I literally said this in the first post and rieterated it twice to prove how strong this stuff can be stacked. Did you not read it? True forums fashion I guess lol. Anyways, Later.
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But that's an OTR problem, not a DS one, isn't it?
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Then it shouldn't be a big deal to get rid of that. Killers don't want this "advantage" and I bet a bunch of survivor players would also be happy, if their team mate didn't "waste" time bodyblocking with DS.
Bring the DS stun up to 7 seconds, turn the active time up to 80 seconds, rework base kit BT so that they survivor completely loses collision and becomes immune to attacks and then disable DS on protection hits. Done. Now it's even stronger than before but it can no longer be used aggressively.
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Using DS/OTR/UB aggressively is legitimate play.
Usually results in a death sentence for the player in my games on either side.
Whether you opt to 'tunnel' such players or not is also a legitimate play, as is your choice to use the perks in such a way.
You don't need a psychology degree to play Dead by Daylight and you can hook someone twice In a row without being a horrible person.
Wild stuff, I know.
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Then why was it a problem back in the day?
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no, it is DS problem because DS is removing the risk. You see, if you bodyblock without DS, then your removing your own anti-tunnel from OTR. there is no good play that killer can make that is time-efficient play to counter the perk. The pre-buffed balanced this problem by keep rewarding medium-low.
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What happens if it's a Bubba and they took down both the hooked and the rescuing survivor? All the Bubba needs to do is hook the recent unhooked survivor last.
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A more interesting idea I've seen before was if you took a protection hit over 10 seconds after you were unhooked. Since you should have gotten out of protection hit range at that point. So you have to have been really following or rushing to your ally to take the hit. Itd remove the bubba part at least. And if the same rule applied to OTR and BT ignoring their endurances if they take a protection hit. It makes the time so narrow it's hard for the survivor to abuse it.
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I am fine with that.
It wasn't.
But if you remove OTR, you just slug 'em out without any problem.
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DS been out for multiple years now. If you have been here awhile and still can't figure out what to do when it's used against you, then I suggest hitting the books and educating yourself instead of acting like a n00b on the forums who has never encountered it before. It's not like we haven't been here before.
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3 second ds was more of a skill check on how to use the perk instead of being "useless". Bad players couldn't get use out of it but good players could get massive value from it. Also I wouldn't consider it tunneling anymore when you intentionally put yourself between the person im chasing and me. You put yourself in the spot light and then question why people complain when people use DS aggressively.
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Protection hits only register if the other survivor is injured within a range. If the unhooked survivor body blocks before you can hit the other, this won't disable DS.
Lets say that's not the case. The killer gets a hit before the survivor unhooks. Because of timing, the killer gets the 2nd hit on the survivor unhooked. DS is now disabled and the killer can chase them without worry. The unhooked survivor didn't plan on protecting the other, thats just how it worked out. Is that a reasonable situation to disable a perk?
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the slugging is the problem. a suggestion would be to put UI element that shows what timer of decisive strike is on. Survivor would far less encouraged to use decisive stirke offensively knowing that killer will wait out their decisive more precisely.
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Except that'd help a tunnelling killer too.
How is the slugging the problem, anyway?
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So tell the killer the survivor has DS or display a timer for every survivor? Why should the killer receive such information for free?
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it works like visual terror radius indicator where it shows a heart in middle of screen. For killer, it would show decisive strike icon with circle when the killer is nearby a survivor that is in the dying state. a half black/half white would be 30 second of decisive strike remaining. 3/4 white, 1/4 black would be 45 seconds remaining.
If your decisive strike is 45 second and you down, the tunneler has choice to pick-up or wait 45 seconds. That is called counter-play. The slugging problem is lack of counter-play. the survivor always get to stay alive for 60 seconds or second chance.
You can't ignore them in a way that does not put a detriment to the killer when decisive strike is used offensively for body blocking. A survivor can prevent the killer from seeing timer by hoping into a locker. At that point, a killer pulling a survivor out of the locker is tunneling. A survivor that jump into a locker to DS cannot use DS offensively.
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If your decisive strike is 45 second and you down, the tunneler has choice to pick-up or wait 45 seconds. That is called counter-play. The slugging problem is lack of counter-play. the survivor always get to stay alive for 60 seconds or second chance.
You seem to be forgetting something: DS is a survivor perk. It shouldn't be a net neutral or negative for the survivor.
While that survivor is slugged, thay're not helping their team. Take the free pressure.
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In what situation would a killer ever pick up a survivor with DS? Also survivors without DS would be picked up immediately.
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i heard someone who had a great idea. Just add the extra deactivation on DS if the killer hooks someone else. The fact i can hook someone and then another survivor plot twists in front of me to force DS is a bit dumb.
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they already helped the team by bodyblocking.
Also survivors without DS would be picked up immediately.
A survivor that has not selected DS should not be getting value out of DS. Killers do not want to pick up survivor with DS. DS should not be triggering unless voluntary choosing to pick up DS.
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they already helped the team by bodyblocking.
That's not a good trade-off for spending who knows how long chasing the killer after getting unhooked, and then spending time slugged and either pulling another survivor off gen or blowing a second, single-use perk.
This ain't a good deal for survivors.
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