Shadow flag toxic players and put them into a separate matchmaking pool

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So they can play among themselves. First have behind the scenes reputation system for one's account and make that reputation go down when reported for bad behavior (that is proven). Also severely further down when posting toxic and insulting comments, these are all already logged. It should not be insults alone but all demeaning and toxic comments too.

After a mediocre threshold is passed they should be flagged as toxic behind the scenes and be made to only play against similar people. (yes even if this makes them wait longer for matchmaking)

Make it extremely difficult to recover from this level. It should take a very long time to ensure that this person (often a sociopath) has improved and is socially more stable and mature to engage with the community.

Do not wait for someone to reach a ban-level. Damage is already done by then many times over.

  • One toxic player will always chase at least multiple paying players from the game
  • BHVR will save money by ensuring bad actors are better managed
  • Most victims of bad players are new players who have yet to invest money into the game

Comments

  • FreddyVoorhees
    FreddyVoorhees Member Posts: 324
    edited May 15
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    No excuse calling killer trash no matter what he did. Toxic comments are bad period. Never be toxic in chat no matter what.

    Demeaning comments do not immediately get you there but will decently contribute to it eventually.

    I also did not say forever , just not easy to get out of.

    Winning matches to get out of penalty should not be a thing. Playing without re-offending should be a thing.

    It's wild that you are not aware what kind of things people say in the comments that a mentally healthy individual would never say. And yes, the more extreme cases are indeed sociopaths with no sense of regard towards the feelings of anyone beside themselves.

  • Ohyakno
    Ohyakno Member Posts: 621
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    Sometimes people just like messing with other people. That doesn't make them sociopaths or even bad people. Weren't you ever a teenager?

  • FreddyVoorhees
    FreddyVoorhees Member Posts: 324
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    Being called n word and wanting my "insert family member" to unalive is not messing around. I am talking about serious repeat offenders who will be quite aggressive in chat but not enough to be properly banned , and as such they will continue to do damage. Hence why I suggested that they sink lower to be matched with similar players. If toxic is from 1 to 10 , most of the times only 9 and 10 result in a ban. But 1-8 do way more community damage and player loss than extremes combined.

    In fact I think that BHVR need to implement AI to monitor all chat like Call of Duty has ToxMod. You would see toxic messages get blinked before you can read them. And toxic players getting proper handling.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,473
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    I don't know about that… I really don't think calling the killer trash should be punished in any way, that is a really light insult and just sounds like a complete overreaction. Giving off such comments after a heated match seems to be rather human to me. I would not say that toxic comments are absolutely always bad, there are always exception, it can also be people trolling or what not? As always it is just about definition, what is toxic and what is not?

    Not easy to get out of sounds like quite a lot of a time investment… Sure obviously not literally forever but in a metaphorical sense…

    Just quoting how it works in Dota 2. Also if you re-offend in those matches you will get reported again and just stay there, besides that the point you were missing about the necessity to win is that otherwise you could just go afk and wait it out, if it only required a certain amount of matches played.

    In competetive environments you will always have some form of trash talking or what not and I don't think that should be punished as long as it is within certain boundarys… Calling someone trash is probably the lightest thing one could do and I think it would be an overreaction to punish that.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,473
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    Sounds like a horrible idea to bring ai into this… This post game chat filter already does not work well… Considering this is an 18+ game I would even want there to be less restrictions in the chat. I would like to have the option to turn of the post game filter and if needed even to forfeit my right to report someone for toxicity in post game chat if they type something out that would otherwise get filtered. Considering I agreed to see that stuff. My point here is that I don't like getting treated like a child that cannot endure mean words in a chat in a video game. Just does not feel good to me…

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,473
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    Also calling them mentally ill is an interesting take… Because would that not make them un-accountable for their behaviour? Therefore the whole idea to be punishing people for mental illness? You should be more careful when throwing around such terms and immediatly calling people mentally ill just because they are ill mannered..

  • FreddyVoorhees
    FreddyVoorhees Member Posts: 324
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    One way or another it should not be a ticket for them to damage those around them. There are a lot of people with issues that play games online and that are very abusive. They need moderation and handling both for the sake of others and themselves.

    AI is inevitable. Toxicity in gaming is becoming a dying trend, at least once it gets compared how it used to be. Call of Duty and its ToxMod is handling voice chat which is a whole another level of complexity when compared to text chat, yet it is already a thing and this is very early into AI. BHVR themselves did studies on online toxic behavior and found that it costs companies 20% of new players on average. That is money and you bet companies will ensure that money stays in the house. Will it bring more harm than good ? I do not think so really, for a slightly more stronger grip on players to behave nice and respectful as a price , you would get the near total removal of all toxicity in return. And I think that 99% of players would not miss very ugly things said in dbd chat. Playful remarks may be sanctioned too until the ai improves but for a much greater good.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,473
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    But basically that is exactly what it means that they are not accountable for the Behaviour if they are mentally ill... Because you are abusive does not mean you are mentally ill.

    Well the age old question freedom or safety... I still prefer freedom in that case, it is still only words. Not like random stuff some ill mannered stranger says should bother me anyway. And on the other side it somewhat prevents people from engaging in banter and what not... I d rather have it the same way it used to be since the 2010s, I couldn't care less what some punk says in voice or text chat but I really don't like getting treated like a child or being censored from engaging in a playfully way I deem appropriate.

  • Jim_Tonic
    Jim_Tonic Member Posts: 104
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    What you "deem approproate" doesnt matter zero. Some weirdo behind a keyboard always talks tough, i learned that you only get to do that if you can do it face to face and be ready for the consequences that brings.

  • Jim_Tonic
    Jim_Tonic Member Posts: 104
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    "sometimes people like messing with other people."

    Yeah behind their safe keyboards. The amount of times ive been told to off myself just because i played killer without holding back is insane in this community, if all these wannabes could just for once talk to me like that face to face. It wouldnt be a bad thing to severely punish them.

    And "trashtalk" all you want with your friends but im not having any ######### from some weirdo stranger behind a screen.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,473
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    The question is though what would change face to face? You gonna beat them up for saying that? I mean saying that stuff would be rude for sure, but depending on what they say not illegal... So the consequences whether or not it is behind a screen or not is basically the same...

  • Raconteurminator
    Raconteurminator Member Posts: 617
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    The thing with shadow-flagging people is, with them not being intended to know, they A) Cannot make a conscious decision to rectify that behaviour before something happens, and B) Once something does happen, they'll still be unaware (outside of increased wait times), so they'll never be able to get themselves out of their situation.

    The only reason you could possibly want a completely opaque, let's call it what it is, Social Credit system, is that you want people to be punished without an opportunity for self-improvement, you want people to be punished for, potentially, arbitrary reasons without them even knowing. Making everyone walk on eggshells isn't going to make the game better.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,473
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    Thats not really what the law says is it? ^^ Even in countries that value your honor that much and protect you from being insulted you don't get protection from any so small insult or demeaning thing and in particular you are not allowed to take matters into your own hands. That is indeed very childish and not the adaquate way to do things.

    The consequence in both cases is that you stand above such petty things and show that you don't get influenced by such juvenile insults, or in case of real severity you contact the authorities, but you don't just beat up people because you didn't like what they said.

  • FreddyVoorhees
    FreddyVoorhees Member Posts: 324
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    So rather than shadow derank we should have an ai that will analyze the tone, intent and the mood of all chats typed and immediately remove anything that it deems offensive, demeaning and insulting. And put bans of various lengths to offenders with letting them know why they got punished. This way people will know what not to do next time.

    Ai got quite accurate lately in telling what is toxic and what is a joke. And it is only improving. I believe it is only a matter of time before BHVR implements one to reduce the amount of work mods already do with all the reports so far.

    Once AI gets good enough it will actively observe gameplay and handle cheaters with ease too.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,473
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    The cheaters part is Allright but letting an Ai decide what is toxic and what not is just not a good idea...

  • Ohyakno
    Ohyakno Member Posts: 621
    edited May 16
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    Can't wait for the machines to analyze and police the intent behind my language. That's definitely a very comforting and not dystopian sentiment at all.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,473
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    Pretty much... Sounds like the first step to an advanced authoritarian state that immediately removes your not allowed opinions and reduces your social credit score.

  • FreddyVoorhees
    FreddyVoorhees Member Posts: 324
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    In China for sure. But it will never get bad like that in the western world. Especially in EU.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,473
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    Freedom dies a silent death if you just don't care about it… You should never be to sure about the privileges you have by living in a country that is not a dictatorship.

  • Raconteurminator
    Raconteurminator Member Posts: 617
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    You clearly have no idea what sort of censorious nonsense the EU is capable of - especially in the field of internet censorship via AI. What happens in China can happen anywhere in the world if the populace is complacent enough.

  • Jim_Tonic
    Jim_Tonic Member Posts: 104
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    You are not telling me anything new. But police where i live doesnt give a single bit about such "juvenile" things. I had some issiues with a bunch of teens stealing my packages, told police to take care of it 3 times nothing happened. One day i caught one of em. I still have the tooth as trophy. Never had any nonesense stress because of them again.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,473
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  • SleepyH
    SleepyH Member Posts: 23
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    What about instead of punishing bad behaviour we reward good behaviour. There already is a way to report someone for being a good player so why not add some rewards and insentives to make people want to be less toxic. For example if you report someone for being good you get a few thousand bloodpoints, (not too much so people wont always just spam it). And if you recieve enough of these good reports you get some shards.

    This could atleast make people not want to make toxic comments or do bad stuff so people report them for being good.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,473
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  • MoNosEmpire
    MoNosEmpire Member Posts: 649
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    Instead of all that, just give PC players the ability to turn the chat off.

    Problem solved.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,473
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    But you can already do that? You just click on the small symbol to the right and then chat is no longer visible.

  • MoNosEmpire
    MoNosEmpire Member Posts: 649
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    Does that need to be done every single time the game ends though?

    If so I can see that not really getting rid of the problem

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,473
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    I don't know, I mean sure it would be quite annoying to have to do that, but then again dbd has quite a lot of accessibility issues… So this would just be another one for the list… Next to inability to turn of text chat censor, no replay mode and many more.

  • MoNosEmpire
    MoNosEmpire Member Posts: 649
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  • MoNosEmpire
    MoNosEmpire Member Posts: 649
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    Then the above isn't even an issue tbh because there is a way to stop it completely that already exists in the game. It's optional at this point.

  • Jim_Tonic
    Jim_Tonic Member Posts: 104
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    THIS! A little out of context but i wish this approach would be taken for everything in the game (e.g. tunneling, facecamping, 3-genning) instead of hard punishing those playstyles, encourage going for 9 or even 12 hooks. BP multiplier or something like that, "i wanna win" - Mentality will never go away, no amount of punishement will change this. Same goes for toxicity.

  • FreddyVoorhees
    FreddyVoorhees Member Posts: 324
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    Hmm … putting biggest of the rewards and glory into the most wanted playstyles may get even tryhards to be nicer .. interesting idea. Toxicity though must be culled , it can reach extremes at times.

  • Jim_Tonic
    Jim_Tonic Member Posts: 104
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    Im afraid though this wouldnt be enough to do BP incentives. The game would need to be focusing hooks over sacrifices. But it would be a start, me for examply my main target is bloodpoints, so i would alredy be fine with BP multiplier with increased hooks. Thats why i think nerfing pain res. and grim embrace is a bad move btw, but again, diffrent topic.

    Toxicity cant be culled, you'd have to remove the chat bar wich is alredy highly censored, then it would just overlap onto twitter or steam discussions (which it kinda alredy does.)