KNOCK OUT perk and slugging playstyle
Compared to camping and tunneling, slugging was never a big problem until it was used with the perk 'KNOCK OUT'.
I don't understand what the point of playing like this (from match to match) is. For what, 4K and 0 gen?? 🙄
This is the second time I have met this Ghostface 😀
Here we are 🙂
Comments
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With sabo beeing buffed you can expect to see more of this as a counter.
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For SWF, it does nothing. they just call out the person on the floor. Bond directly counter it because it shows aura's of anyone within 36 meters.
Only third seal slugging is an issue for soloq but it is hex that nobody runs.
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Agree, but not all of us are SWF, including me. 😌
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The buff is insignificant, and most survivors are soloq. I often watch Twitch, and have faced many excellent killers, this buff does not affect them. They play nice and reach 4K easily. Using this style of play to "counter" is only for noobs. The question is: what's the fun in playing like that game after game? 😶
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Knock Out is to Survivors what Boil Over is to Killers. Doesn't actually help you achieve your objective in any meaningful way, just makes the game less fun and more annoying for the other side, and can form part of a really toxic and antagonistic playstyle. Both should be reworked.
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I havent seen the buff my self, just saw that it got buffed. - can you link me to some numbers?.
A green toolbox (32 charges) with a Hacksaw and a Cutting Wire are already troublesome as it is. i was able to sabo a hook in front of the killer (carrying my friend) and run to the next hook he was going for and sabo that aswell, so he had to drop her.
That was without the background player perk.
Buffing it will result in an even stronger output, and i think you can expect that killers will slug even more when it happens.
I doubt any loosing team is having the same fun as a winning team, - where is the fun that a lot of survivrs are dragging time in the endgame?? - i do believe that some killers bleed survivors as payback for that, and while i dont do it my self, when i play killer. I do understand the fustration some killers have over this (im a former killer main my self, and in 90% of my games people did that, even when i intentionally let them escape).
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Knockout Slug is the solution to the ongoing theme of hook denial that's been present in the past few months via BGP + Blinds/pallet stuns.
Hooking a Survivor when there isn't enough pressure is already a time sink, not to mention many 2nd chance perks activate after a Survivor is unhooked. The upcoming sabotage changes is just the new version of the same theme.If the action of picking up and hooking a Survivor carries so much risk now, then it makes sense to not hook until there's enough pressure.
This means:
- The Killer can look for the next target to chase, which means more chase opportunities/time to interrupt gen completion
- No 2nd chance perks like OTR/DS until the game has reached a point where they dont matter. Most players are bringing these perks to combat tunneling.
- That one player crouching nearby with BGP and a flashlight probably becomes the next person chased, forcing a third Survivor to get off gens to pick up Slugged Survivor
- A Survivor who is a few seconds away from fully bleeding out is no different from a Survivor being on death hook
- Solo Queue or even Swf don't have much experience dealing with such an aggressive playstyle.
- Ultimate Weapon being nerfed leading into a reduction in usage of Calm Spirit allows for Infectious Fright value which pairs very well with slugging.
People seem to think that slugging is just toxic but at this point, it's a different way of putting pressure on Survivors without stacking slowdown perks.
Post edited by appleas on8 -
This is ultra nasty.
I made an experiment testing it with @Xernoton a month ago.
I tried it on spirit with surge, stbfl and third seal.
If they didnt give up just minutes into the match, they painfully slowly but certainly lost the game. Its incredibly strong and only not utilized because its insanely boring to play and play against. On stronger killers its very strong though.
Knock out should be reworked. Its a very unhealthy perk that encourages this stupid playstyle.
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As sad as it sound but: consistently winning. Thats the reason to play like this game after game. Some people dont care one bit about a fun experience. Some people even find this stuff enjoyable. Most of what ive exyperienced over the years has tought me that the majority of dbd´s playerbase values winning over a fun match.
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The buff makes it so you can take a hit, Sabo and still get away without going down, I don't think it is insignificant...
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Slugging with Knock Out actually doesn't bother me. Because it tells me straight up what their strategy is (slugging) and I can try adjust my gameplay. It's harder in solo admittedly, but if the rest of my team are getting gen progress or are in good in chase, I don't mind being the designated pick up person until I go down. To me it's no different to a survivor bringing a sabo build or BGP/FB to focus on hook denial for instance. Some people go into a game with a plan of attack and you just gotta adapt. I had an Unknown earlier who slugged a Dwight and I and then proceeded to just hump our bodies until we bled out. That's not strategy, that's just trolling. Intent matters.
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I mean when he is bleeding you out anyway he might as well troll around a bit... I don't see that different than just standing there doing nothing until you bleed out.
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My killer didn't have Knock Out and wasn't slugging the whole game. Once the other two survivors had died on hook, me and the Dwight for some reason got treated like that when he could have just hooked us. Most killers I've gone against with Knock Out will still come back and try hook once they've downed everyone. Slugging doesn't always mean their intent is to bleed you out.
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Fair I guess, but the most reasonable thing would be to not do that, maybe just sit over the survivor that has the most time left before bleeding out... Otherwise certain perks might come into account that allow them to still wiggle free. If you want to secure the 4k at all costs at least.
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I'll always slug a survivor who runs to first pallet, drops it and then runs to second pallet and drops it with a t-bag after both pallets.
I mean I need to eliminate a survivor that shows such skill and I'm fully deserving of the t-bags after 2 pallets in a straight line.
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I understand what you go through as a killer because I do too. If I encounter survivors trying to hold the game hostage, it's really frustrating, even though I'll find them anyway.
I find that the toolbox doesn't affect me too much unless I encounter a bully team or SWF.
I think camping, tunneling, and slugging come from the urge to win.For me, winning or losing is not the most important, as long as the trial is interesting. When playing as a survivor, sometimes I stand at the opened gate and can escape, but I choose to try to save my teammates even though I know there's a high chance I'll die. If the killers play nice, I'll play nice.
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As I said, slugging was never a big problem until it was used with the perk 'KNOCK OUT' 🙂.
Like the Ghostface guy above, combined with revealing-aura perks, the trial had taken place within around 1 minute.
I don't SWF, so it's a big problem. I couldn't find where my teammates were before the killer found me.
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I agree, i do believe in leading by an example.
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When I play as a killer, I find that the buff doesn't affect me too much unless I encounter a bully team or SWF. Ya, that's it for me, this depends on each person's feelings.
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The killer always finds me before I can find where my teammates are lying. It's a big problem to soloq if the killers have 'exposed' basekit and bring revealing-aura perks.
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Haha, sometimes I also encounter a survivor who is too good at looping and t-bags, and then I don't care about gens anymore, I just want to kill him 😂. I don't camp and slug, but I tunnel him till the end. I feel it is fun, and I think he also feels that. Anw, he wanted me to chase him. In this case, it's a fair and fun game.
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I dont really think it has something to with "feeling" whether or not you can force a one for one when doing the Sabo or even get the Sabo and get away... Either it is possible or it is not.
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It's extremely good. It saves you pick up, carry and hook time on every down. Which people don't realize is a lot of time and pressure lost. People tend to overestimate how devastating it is in solo queue and underestimate how good it still is against swf.
I don't necessarily think there's an issue with the perk at all, but if people want it equalized for solo and swf we could drop the Blindness entirely and replace it with a very heavy recovery speed slow down and being healed off the ground slow down. Essentially the goal here would be to make it waste just as much time getting them off the ground as it would have wasted with their team running around looking for them.
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Ya, it's not a big problem in case SWF, and killers have no 'exposed' basekit, and don't bring revealing-aura perks.
As a soloq, most slugging cases I've encountered have been fine.
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Yeah, I won't discuss this aspect, I only have trouble facing SWF and the bully soloq teams. Anyway, I respect your opinion.
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Boon: Exponential will be a great counter to slugging builds. They can’t get value if you can crawl away and get yourself up. Tenacity will also become more useful if the new meta will have more slugging.
I personally have no problem with slugging play styles. What I do have a problem with is having everyone slugged and the killer just letting everyone bleed out. I just wish the devs would reduce the bleed out time by 50% when everyone is down and have no way to get up.
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Exposed base kit or aura revealing perks is pretty irrelevant imo. Most Exposed base kit killers are already very weak killers in general and if a killer is running aura perks he's not running gen perks, so the gens should be flying. Aura revealing builds are more for meme builds than builds you actually plan to win a lot with.
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I'm not sure what perks you brought, but Bond, Aftercare and Empathy both counter Knockout. If you're playing solo queue, I believe Bond and Empathy are decent choices. So it's no different from the killer bringing aura perks and you didn't bring distortion, am I wrong?
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Does it though? From the phrasing of knock out I would assume it blocks aura reading in general, when further away than 16 m, or do you mean while they are injured and you are in range?
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Sure. May as well troll around by BMing the opponents who’ve already lost. This is exactly the attitude that brings so much toxicity to this game. Nobody knows how to be a gracefully winner, just take the W and move on.
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Well it is what it is... Not like this is limited to one side... And I don't think bm is something that is possible to remove from gaming.
And on a side note I don't think that the other bahviour is more or less bm than bleeding people out for no reason...
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Never said it was limited to one side. Not at all so no need for the “but the other side does this argument” because I get just as annoyed with survivors who stomp a killer and all stand there and teabag at exit gate instead of just leaving.
My post is about the comment that “may as well stand there and troll around a bit” by BMing the people who have clearly already lost. Why? What does that accomplish besides adding to the already toxic environment present in this game? Thats the mindset that I’m commenting on that you displayed.
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Well first of all I don't think it is too bad of a behaviour and I don't really get annoyed by either side doing it. In both scenarios there is nothing to be won anymore, so I can just use my time differently, tab out and do something else, read somthing whatever. I really don't see an issue there.
For the second part, I guess people do it because it is fun? I don't see an issue with that? It is a silly behaviour that does not really accomplish anything, unless people get annoyed by it, as they apparently do like you just said… Therefore if you get annoyed the troll is winning, and otherwise nothing happens… I will say though that it always amuses me when people bm, as it just looks funny, the ws, the nodding, the gestures, the t-bagging and what not, I have to say I find them quite hillarious. It is kind of sad that the options are so limited… In dota for example people try to bm by typing "?" after a missplay or something, which sometimes ends up in a back and forth which in my mind is quite amusing for both sides ^^ So like I said, I don't see anything wrong here. And I don't understand people that when they're getting bled out fairly obviously just look at the screen for 4 min instead of doing something else… Nobody forces you to watch, you can do literally anything else, especially if it annoys you :)
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Like I posted above, I'm not entirely sure if they counter it, according to the wiki:
I somehow interpret this as it blocking all aura reading other survivors get, no matter if it is the given of being downed or via a perk, I would not really say those information perks counter it, because you would need to be somewhat close before they go down to have value. I guess aftercare is the exception, but the perk is not that valuable in general, same goes for Empathy but out of the 3 I would argue it is probably the best for that cause, but you would need to keep a look at their position quite regularly to somewhat know where they are and hope they are not crawling away and remember where they got downed…
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This perk should’ve been reworked ages ago.
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Ya me either, slugging is not a big problem. However, as a soloq, I can't always bring Exponential or Bond to counter Knock Out.
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You can if you think Slugging is going to be a big problem. I run Unbreakable every match and while I don’t get value out of it every match, I like knowing that I have it. It’s also come in clutch plenty of times to warrant it a permanent spot in my build.
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If you meet the guy Ghostface in the case of my photo, you'll see that combo is a very big problem. I don't know if SWF can handle it, but as a soloq, it is unbeatable. Starting with Lethal Pursuer, one by one we fell very quickly because he would find us before we could find where our teammates were lying, no time to make the gens fly.
Imo, slugging is not a big problem, exposed basekit + revealing-aura perks are still fine. The problem is 'KNOCK OUT', it makes sense.
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There is no reward for hooking people. People who are on death hook repair generators as fast as people who haven't been hooked. If you want to get rewarded for hooking survivors you have to bring Pain Resonance or Pop. They have extremely boring effects but you are forced to bring them because your regression at base is laughable (25% of survivor repair speed). You regress in 4 seconds what a single survivor can repair in 1 second....
These perks will get nerfed next patch, giving you even less of a reward for hooking (seperate) people. Killer players will be looking for alternatives.
I'm also looking for other perks which can help you level this regression/progression gap. But I found that Surge and Eruption block important center generators extremely fast, making them unreliable. Even when you're not actively "3-genning", when survivors are attacking the same generator over and over they will force you to block it eventually. Also Surge only works with basic attacks. And Call of Brine adds a whopping 3.75 seconds extra regression (that is if you get to regress the generator for 60 seconds minimum) , making it more of an info perk than actual regression.
I might start looking into slugging, with slugging perks. Maybe boring for survivors? But what alternative would you suggest to me
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I usually use perks related to gens speed or chasing. Sadly, I can't always bring some other perks just to counter Knock Out. I'm a soloq.
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No matter what perks and addons Ghostface is running he's very weak, much less unbreatable. Ghostface actually needs significant buffs, even when running this build that you think is super strong. I've never had issues with aura builds, Ghostface or Knockout in solo queue.
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Unbreakable can only be used once. I usually use gens-speed or chasing perks. Knock Out prevents people from seeing their dying teammates. The killer would find us before we could find where our teammates were lying. And if we could find, we wouldn't have enough time to heal them. Imo, as long as there is no Knock Out then slugging is no longer an issue.
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I don't know how you can handle it with your confidence in soloq. I usually bring gens-speed or chasing perks, I don't know which perks you bring. I don't know which perks my teammates bring in the trial until it ends.
In my case, that map, one by one down, and we couldn't find each other before the killer found us. And if we could find, we have no time to heal. If he hadn't brought KnockOut, there wouldn't have been anything to post this thread.
If you excellently can handle this case as a soloq, I really want to watch your TTV.
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No reward for hooking people? The whole sacrifice score category awards points for hooking and sacrificing survivors. Just knocking them down doesn't reward many points at all.
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You said: "Maybe boring for survivors?" » So, I have to ask, do you get bored playing that way, as a killer role?
The only thing I can suggest to you is to try watching some live streams on TTV, or videos on YouTube, to see how good killers do their job with nice play.
I've faced many excellent killers, they protect their gens extremely well. Many players who tend not to protect gens will cause gens to fly, then blame it on the nerfed perks.
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Ya, many players always blame the nerfed perks, while good players still obtain 4K with nice play.
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The link to my stream is on my profile if you want to watch, I stream regularly. I've got about a 68% win rate right now in solo queue. The vast majority of the time I just run meme builds with no exhaustion perk.
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Slugging was always an issue. Knock Out, Deerstalker, Third Seal … this playstyle is super old and still allows to circumvent the intended gameplay. People going for it from start of the trial are just focusing on making the game as annoying as possible. And devs still think its fine to have such a toxic mindset.
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Points? You mean bloodpoints? What kind of reward is that, I'm always sitting at the cap I don't want bloodpoints. I want play well and win
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Not blaming nerfed perks at all. I was talking about the game at base. Regression is 4x slower than progression. When you kick a generator it regresses at 25% repair speed. Meaning every 4 seconds you regress, a single survivor can undo it in 1 second.
You can hook everyone 2 times, and still they repair generators as fast as at the start of the match. Even after getting put on a meathook twice. So why would you not go for the same survivor and decrease their progression by 25%?
There is no reward for hooking. The guy is talking about bloodpoints!! Dont make me laugh I have gathered like 2-3 billion bloodpoints during my years playing. I just want a fair game to play where I have a chance at winning when I'm playing well instead of being forced to always pick boring gen regression perks!
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