Hypothetical Question For Killers On These Forums
If you had the choice of generators taking 120 seconds to complete but you had to give up all perks that could effect generator progress, would you take it?
The purpose of the question is simple. You see complaints about gen speed all the time on the forums with players feeling that they are required to bring gen slow down perks. But if the gens took considerably longer to complete then you wouldn't need the gen slow down perks and could run fun perks instead. This is purely hypothetical. I'm not even suggesting that it is a good idea. I just want to know if players would be willing to give up something they are used to to get the opportunity to play a wider variety of perks.
Comments
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if gen affecting perks/addons/items were gone from both sides, then increasing gen time is unnecessary.
I'd be fine even for gens to go back to 80s.
But if we speaking for only killer side to give up gen slowdown, then even 120s wouldn't compensate, because the knowledge of no perk being there to stop the gen speed stuff, it would change absolutely nothing.
But let's take the scenario of both sides being unable to affect the gen time.
It would not create sadly any opportunity to play a wider variety of perks. The meta would adapt to a different playstyle, and each side would make perk loadout to counter the opposite. If killers would run auras, survivors would run stealth.
And the gen discussions would switch to whatever meta the game would switch to.It's a flaw you cannot fix, competitiveness runs in all multiplayer games.
The only way to make people play more unique builds, would be to encourage playing the lower pickrate perks, maybe like a weekly perk rotation of let's say 20-40 perks, 10-20 per side, that would yield a great bonus in points/exp/rift lvl.
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150sec of extra Gen time worth 4 slowdown already. And having 4 perk slots being free for other perks. Its basically they have 8 perks.
And even if Devs delete all slowdown perks, killers still have slowdown basekit: tunneling.
There is no way killers can refuse this.
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Yes absolutely because the basekit changes are basically doing what the perks were doing and now you have perk slots for other things.
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An extra thirty seconds of gen time per gen might actually kill the game lol
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I would rather generators stay at 80 seconds and remove gen regress/ progress perks entirely. And make tool boxes for sabo only.
If survivors bring Gen perks and toolboxes they’ll cook. If they don’t then they get cooked. They need to make it to where survivors and killers don’t feel the need to bring anything, and can bring what they want.1 -
120 seconds is a bit much.
I'm all for slowly the game down normally in exchange for removing slow down perks but I think this is not the way to do it. It would be awful for the survivors.
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Nah I wouldn't take it.
The perks can be frustrating to go against when they deny your completion, but if you manage to outplay the killer for enough time, you can bypass the value of their gen regression perks. This is why doubling up on an important generator in the middle of the map to reduce the repair time is valuable, even if it is less efficient than working 2 separate gens at the same time.
With gen regression perks gone, and killers instead just having a set time for each chase, and there is far less tactical decision making to be made, just all sit on a different gen and ensure max progress at all times.
As mundane as people find gens, it is satisfying when you manage to just get an important gen done just before a pain res hook comes in, or having to hold your nerve when you can see the killer charging at you in the distance when you need just 5 more seconds to avoid the Pop... this "cmon, Cmon, CMON!!!" element is lost if we remove gen regression.
Ofc it helps that I also don't mind doing gens myself; being on 60 fps with post-30 year old reflexes makes hitting great skill checks pretty tough for me, so I'm happily entertained on gens and find it exciting trying to beat the regression perks xD
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Probably yes. Although it feels unfair for survivors to keep THEIR perks in such a scenario. For over a year Ive already been of the opinion that the game is unplayable without Hex:Ruin. The reason is simply the repair speed.
This game overall would be much more fun when neither side has their perks. Thats when Killer is actually balanced. The more perks come into play the more the scale shifts toward the survivors.0 -
As someone that solely plays with ruin or surge as regression perks, yes I would definitely take that one.
However, for the game overall, I would not find this a good change, because 120 second gens will be the most boring stuff this game could offer.
Holding m1 for 90 seconds is already boring.
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"The game is unplayable without Hex:Ruin" oh I love how much everything has changed and yet nothing has changed at all
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In a heartbeat. Deadlock and PGTW are the only 2 slowdowns I run so being able to switch them out and run a full chase build (Lethal, I'm All Ears, Enduring, BBQ for example) would be beautiful. Unfortunately the killers I choose to play - Sadako, Wraith, Pyramid Head, Freddy - are all at least partially reliant on slowdown (I wish Pyramid Head had a movement ability because then I could abandon slowdown alltogether but here we are).
I mean, I'd probably never play Survivor again because sitting on a gen for 120 seconds would be mindnumbing, and when I do Hyperfocus + Stake Out would be a permanent part of my build, but just thinking of the killer side of things I'd love to go back to a more 2017 style of game where people didn't rush gens as much (or maybe I was just bad enough then that Ruin was not yet mandatory lol)
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Honestly i wouldnt want gens to take longer to complete…… i honestly dont know what they can do to make it not more boring for Survivor and also take a bit of pressure off killers. And by pressure i mean that killers are not as reliant on gen slowdown but i have no idea what system could make both sides happy.
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I thought the question was going to be whether it would be worth gens at 120 seconds and the killer gets no perks. Like if there was a perk that took 4 slots that added 30 seconds to every gen, it would probably be run for those who want to win (fun being a different question). 30 seconds and still get perks, yeah that would be a massive improvement. As many have mentioned lots of killer builds involve 1 gen regression perk, it would be a massive buff.
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Definitely. That seems worth it.
Especially because kicking gens at base is actually pretty good now.1 -
Eh I think instead of regression/slowdown perks each killer should have a unique match setting when you load up maybe trapper by default needs 110 second gens to do his thing. Maybe Freddy to. Maybe nurse needs 80 seconds gens. It's weird that each killer has completely different game play style but everything else remains static it lesses the ability of the devs to make unique killers as they may be to strong or to weak for this current system 90 second gens.
sfor example gen speed on SM should just be 5 seconds so survivors won't leave
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My builds are usually geared toward chases and detection. I plan to kill faster than gens can be done.
I have no gen defense perks to speak of.
So yeah, I'll take the 120s.
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No way. Simply because I also play Survivor and I can't bear the thought of having to do a 120 second gen! Unless BHVR somehow reworked gen repair into a fun 2 minute mini game or something, I can't see anyone going for that.
It's a little frustrating to have a game end before you can do anything to turn it around. But I don't mind trials when Survivors rush the gens so much as the ones when they came to bully. At least those games are over quickly.
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As someone who usually plays without gen slowdown … I'm undecided. On the one hand I know I'd get a lot more kills… but that'd also catapult me to a group of people who I don't find very enjoyable to play against. Which is also why I don't bring gen slowdown to begin with. - There's a certain break point for Nemo, the killer I usually play. Once survivors reach a certain level and the map is large you have, by default, lost if you either don't basically stick to a three gen area, camp+tunnel or stack gen slowdown.
So, what I'm trying to say is, I guess, that no matter how long take or how much or little regression you take, you gonna get to a point where you don't win more than you lose / where winning and losing is more about the map and gen spawn you're dealt and which killer you play. … If anything prolonging the "climbing through MMR killers usually win fairly easily" makes it even more of a frustrating experience when you do eventually hit the wall.
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Yeah I’d take that. I don’t personally run that much slow down right now myself anyway. Maybe not literally that exact change, but the concept of gutting all of the gen regression perks and slowing the gens down, in whatever form that may be, is one of the directions the game needs. I probably wouldn’t go the route of just adding gen time to slow them down though.
It’s similar to the changes we need with tunneling.
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It will make my games easier but make the queue times absolutely horrendous. I would rather not.
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As a Scratched Mirror Myers main when I play Killer, yes. I’ll give up all gen slowdown perks in return for 120 second gens. I don’t use gen slowdown at all anyways and the added time to get more delicious scares will be glorious.
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Lol this is a great idea to keep people away from playing survivor
good luck with a 10 minute minimum queue
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Sure I would take that since I don’t run any slowdowns.
Another idea I’d like to see tested is what if gen times stayed the same, but generator repair speed suffered a penalty whenever a survivor is in chase? That way the Killer can reclaim some of the chase time while the person who is good at looping still gets the thrill out of being chased a long time. If the person is a god looper then they’ll still be making time for their team, just not as much as before. It would make committing to longer chases a little bit less punishing. It would also gently encourage stealth playstyles a little more too.
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I don't care to use slowdown that much, if at all, and I personally do fine as it is, so I'm fine with it I guess.
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No. I don't use slowdown but I wouldn't take that trade. 120 seconds on a gen would be the most mind numbing experience imaginable for survivors. A game should be fun and spending 120 seconds holding M1 and occasionally pressing space is not.
Also, it would take away quite a few fun perks like Huntress Lullaby.
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Yes, this 100%.
I agree as a Pig main that doesn't use slowdown perks.0 -
I would take this except 30 seconds to every gen would make bad killer players win. A good game to analysis is Tru3's Knight game. This is issue with current gen speed.
You can have 4 survivor that are atrocious at looping but if the team is efficient enough, you will lose all 5 gens as killer. A team that plays this poorly should not be completed all 5 gens. The team had 0 gens perks, 1 guy is doing adept. 0 toolboxes and the killer is on the backfoot.
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From some of the posts on the forums you'd think they want 120-second gens and buffs for all slowdown perks. And they would still be calling the game "incredibly survivor-sided" and "basically unplayable".
Anyway, I would take it, from both roles' perspective. It's not at all rare that slowdown perks can make for more than a total of 150 seconds of stall, but not only would this be much more consistent of course, but most slowdown perks only come into play after downing and hooking survivors or otherwise applying pressure, whereas with longer base gens, even lesser killers could more reliably have a better early game and less often lose gens for their first hook. And they would of course have those slots for chase perks and such then. Although I would probably want to see some adjustments to camping and tunnelling to go with this, since they would be even more effective with longer base gens.
I think rather than increasing the time to repair however, a good way to slow the game down would be to hide generators better (more randomized spawns, perhaps removing the headlights), as well as revisit the "early game collapse" idea, where you either block all gens for a minute (ending if a chase begins before that minute has passed), or simply have Corrupt Intervention basekit.
Another approach would be to rework slowdown perks such that they are at their strongest if a killer does not camp or tunnel. Examples would be Weasel granting 30% regression on fresh hooks, 20% on second hooks, but none on death hooks. Or yet, granting 50% regression on the gen furthest from the hook that has progress, highlighted for the killer. Pain Resonance granting 30% regression on every fresh hook, but this being reduced to 0% if a survivor is sacrificed. Ruin again regressing gens at 200% base passive rate, but also again disabling itself once a survivor is sacrificed. Grim Embrace blocking gens for 10 seconds for every gen left to repair at the point of it activating, incentivizing the killer to go for fresh hooks as early as possible. And so on. And then other perks that also encourage spreading the pressure like Thanatophobia and Barbecue could be buffed, with Thana perhaps also slowing down vaulting speeds, and Barbecue granting a continual movement speed boost for every fresh hook on a token system, losing a token whenever a survivor is hooked for the second time. There's a plethora of simple and obvious ideas to create very potent and impactful slowdown perks that however are contingent upon not camping and tunnelling.
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Yeah that’s true huh? I keep thinking it over and while I do want the games to last longer I see enough people keep saying that increasing gen time is a bad idea.
I agree with many here that say that secondary objectives are needed. I like the idea that Killers come with a secondary objective.
I don’t run slowdowns so that’s probably why I feel the way I do. I just wish that some of the lower tier Killers had ways of making the matches last just a bit longer.
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120s is wayyy too long.
I would never want that under any circumstances.
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I would take no progress/regress perks for maybe 100 second generator OR current 90 with a true side objective that gets altered on what killer you're against. If you're playing against a nurse, blight, spirit then the game is more lenient with side objectives.
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It seems like the general consensus is that most killers would take the deal but that it wouldn't be healthy for the game. It could make for an interesting experiment as a temporary game mode. Maybe even add in a side objective like adding 10 gen parts around the map that if survivors find and install on a gen, it would remove 10 seconds from the repair time (with a maximum of 3 parts installed per gen).
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If gens were 120, the game would be agonizing and die out a slow painful death by SoloQ becoming the most MISERABLE its EVER been; and to be honest, we're already nearing rock bottom, so y'know.
If they simply got rid of all-gen slowdown perks, put the gens back down to 80 seconds, the game would probably be in a healthier state; though the meta of DBD would simply shift over to running a more broken perk combination.
Most killers would probably immediately run to perks like Lethal + NtH and other aura reading abilities just make sure that they can safely, easily, and most definitely put pressure on survivors without needing to hit gens. Sure, it'd shake the DBD's core a bit but like any amount of people; killers would adapt quite quickly (IF their complaints dont immediately force BHVR to revert the update.)0 -
That's a good attitude to have. Too many players on these forums buy into the "us vs them" mentality when in reality we are all on board the same ship. This game would be in a much better spot if everyone thought it it as "us and them". With all that said, I am curious about your stance on Huntress Lullaby being a "fun perk". From my experience, it doesn't usually do too much before being cleansed.
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NO…
That's the biggest catch 22
120 charges per Gen would be a nightmare for Survivors… and even if it took that long Killers would still kick Gens
Killers then would bring other perks thus creating another "meta"
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