Increasing the Killer Mastery Cap by Offering Them More CHOICE
Proactive and strategic choices for the killer
The role of the killer
The role of the killer in DBD is often reactive instead of pro-active one:
1. The survivors choose which generator they want to complete. All you can do is react and try to push them off.
2. The survivors choose where you are being chased to. You can't pick them up and throw them to another spot (as in Last Year The Nightmare), but instead you can follow them or break of the chase.
3. The survivors can choose where they want to die while the killer only has some influence over when they are about to die.
Theoretically everything can be translated to a reaction, but in DBD it's more obvious as your choices are very limited. A lack of innovation in more dynamic gameplay scenarios allow for very standardised reactions.
Now imagine:
That the killer could place something on the map: A sort of sign, that slowly becomes near to transparent overtime and exhibits more power the longer it exists. With no reaction to anything else, this killer could force survivors to react to hit sign's position instead, who would need to perform an action in top of it, to undo this more dynamic form of Hex.
The feeling of a meaningful choice as dynamic as a 3 vector value (coordinates).
This is what is the underlying thought of this post is; to turn this tiny tree into a fully sized forest:
and we will be using a particular mechanic for it: the otherwise blunt hook.
Bandersnatching the hell out of hooks
Choice is the key-word here, illustrated by what will become the next new type of hook:
Unlike normal hooks, these hooks have 2 spots. But they aren't normal hooks, neither are they like basement hooks;
After all, our Choice-Hooks will spawn on random spots outside of the basement and only 1 person can be hooked on them.
Once a person has been hooked on 1 of the 2 hooks, the hook that you didn't use will be permanently broken, and falls of the wooden structure as if it were sabotaged. And with this your choice is settled.
Now what is the choice between choosing 2 hooks on the same wooden beam? 1 meter of distance?
No. Unlike normal hooks, these hooks have a different effect on the game. Depending on which hook on the wooden beam you chose, that will be the irreversible choice for that hook.
Hook appearance
Just as there are different outlooks for hooks, there are different outlook for the effects of the hooks, so that the killer can distinct between which hook is which. The visuals of this are only expressed in the HOOK itself and not in the wooden/metal beam.
For example: 1 hook might have a skull attached to it. The other might have dark-matter particle effects flying around the tip of the hook on 1 side.
Hook rarity:
Every map has 2-3 choice hooks on the map.
Sabotage
Choice hooks can be sabotaged by any players at 40% the rate of a normal sabotage. (Only the sabotaged choice will break. The hook attached to the same beam will still work).
Examples of Choice-Hooks:
The Pressure hook.
When hooking a survivor on a Pressure hook, the survivor will slowly become wrapped in the entity's matter like the reverse birth of a butterfly. Meanwhile a progress bar instead of the normal hook bar appears, slowly filling. The aura of all hooks are revealed.
When the progress bar is full, the hook that the survivor is looking at will quickly wrap up in a human-shaped cocoon and the survivor teleports to that hook, which breaks and allows the survivor to escape. The previous hook's cocoon slowly disappears.
During this duration, generators malfunction and cannot be worked on. The survivor on the hook also cannot be saved during this duration.
The Bloodwarden hook.
When a survivor is hooked, bloodwarden will trigger until this survivor has died/has been unhooked.
The Crippling hook.
A survivor hooked by this hook has a 50% chance to trigger fast skill-checks without a notification warning. (Identical to Lullaby at 5 stacks)
The All Seeing hook.
Reveal the location of all players who are performing an action/are running. Your terror radius is suppressed for 20 seconds, up until you swing.
The Poisonous hook.
The survivor being hooked suffers from -40% action speed for healing and working on a generator for 60 seconds.
The Bloody hook.
The killer permanently gains +0.75% extra movementspeed.
The Death hook.
The Survivor rescued from a death-hook will die upon the death of their rescuer. They permanently have the status effect: "Bound".
(Inspired by https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/41901/the-pig-rbt-rework-idea/p1)
End note
There is a whole sea of ideas for hooks and making them relatively as strong. Now you have some ideas of what that might look like, what do you think about the Choice-Hooks?
Will it positively impact gameplay and create more diverse gameplay-scenario's? Is it cool to have a sort of Saboteur built in and only usable to such hooks, bringing the concept of sabotaging to a healthier environment?
Do you have any of your own ideas about hooks, let me know about them down below!
Comments
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YES! GOD PLEASE YES! YES! YES! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!
(If anyone knows what I'm referencing, I love you.)
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I really like everything here except the "gens malfunction", instead It should be an x% of slower repairing speed to all survivors for 1-2 mins.
Edit:
Also survivors should sabotage at least one of the hooks to calm the entity and therefore being able to escape. If none of the special hooks have been sabotaged bloodwarden will be active until one hook has been sabotaged, thus adding a second objective to survivors.
"Once a person has been hooked on 1 of the 2 hooks, the hook that you didn't use will be permanently broken, and falls of the wooden structure as if it were sabotaged. And with this your choice is settled."
Instead of being broken, just make the hook change colour. When the colour is different the hook works as a normal hook but is half-damaged (progression bar to sabotage It is at half)
Post edited by tt_ivi_99 on0 -
Lets actaully get this into the game. This is something that could fill that missing void of "different" every game. Its chaotic, its something survivors cant control, and its something a killer has control over1
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@tt_ivi_99 said:
I really like everything here except the "gens malfunction", instead It should be an x% of slower repairing speed to all survivors for 1-2 minsThe point of the Pressure hook was to create a hook that prevents camping, while also creating a moment in which suddenly stealth is very valid, since everyone can hide, since nobody has to unhook anyone, creating moments we don't usually see, but
an x% of slower repairing speed to all survivors for 1-2 mins
Also sounds balanced!
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I like your ideas.
A shame that we will most likely never see sth like this ingame =(1 -
more survivor nerf and more killer buff nah wont happend
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@Tru3Lemon said:
more survivor nerf and more killer buff nah wont happendPower between factions is relative. Pick a cool survivor buff Idea out of the bunch and throw it in the same PTB patch.
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I would say change the Seth hook to a instant hook on the rescuer but if it's a obsession that's hooked they instantly die0
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@redsopine01 said:
I would say change the Seth hook to a instant hook on the rescuer but if it's a obsession that's hooked they instantly dieI see what you're trying to do there xD
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Hey only fair plus it's a huge trade off if no one has obsession perks still gotta 2 hook if somone is cocky and has ds they die or if you got remember me or dying light heck you can mix it up with warden to mess them up at the endAlwaysInAGoodShape said:@redsopine01 said:
I would say change the Seth hook to a instant hook on the rescuer but if it's a obsession that's hooked they instantly dieI see what you're trying to do there xD
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@Tru3Lemon said:
more survivor nerf and more killer buff nah wont happendPower between factions is relative. Pick a cool survivor buff Idea out of the bunch and throw it in the same PTB patch.
look i dont know why ppl still want more buff on killer i agree that theres alot of killer perks that needs a rework or a buff but jesus man this is insane on the ptb killers got buffed and survivor got buffed also (the mayor buff its on killers even tho ppl still thinks that this game its on survivor favour) i want to see new cool stuff but making like having penalty of repair time i mean ######### in the ptb theres a penalty for doing genrush with a group of survivors doing the same gen even tho there was this bug from prove thyself
survivors needs some perks that needed to be in theyre own kit since devs mentioned 1 of the perks called kindred wanted to be as a kit for survivor and not a perk cuz about solo and SWF still im waiting for that to come or maybe they just gave up
i just want to see this game in a best way and not a broken way cuz right now i can see alot of things that are broken (nurse: omegablink or 3 blink, billy using chainsaw near you to get the insta down without a penalty of movement even ppl say that hes "balance" etc but o well since the comunity have 2 faction since the beta come out
survivor faction and killer faction each of this ppl complain about a perk or something
for example killers complain about self care there you have it a good nerf mayority of the ppl donst use it maybe 30% or more i dont really know
and bbq got nerfed now survivors can hide inside of lockers and killers got really pissed off about that
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This is not about buffing or nerfing either side, or about the belief that either side is too strong.
This part is about introducing more dynamic gameplay elements to the killer faction, which requires the killer's decision making and planning.
If you evaluate the current killer strength as 100% and survivor strength as 100%, and we would add the Choice hook, increasing killer's power by 10% to 110% then that'd require us to balance survivors out along the lines of that, buffing them up by a 10%.Now, see, the devil is in the detail. If killers actually need to utilise this mechanic properly and thus demanding planning and skill not always present where as the +10% survivor buff is readily available, then the Hook Buff resulted in a killer nerf among lower ranks; exactly the effect we are looking for;
We work towards making the Blue and the Red line overlapping, and yes, contrary to initial instinct, this might mean that you have to buff killers in a way that only allows their power to be properly utilised by players with experience, thus you must increase the complex mechanics for killers in order to match the learning curve.3 -
i really love this idea!
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@Tru3LemonThis is not about buffing or nerfing either side, or about the belief that either side is too strong.
This part is about introducing more dynamic gameplay elements to the killer faction, which requires the killer's decision making and planning.
If you evaluate the current killer strength as 100% and survivor strength as 100%, and we would add the Choice hook, increasing killer's power by 10% to 110% then that'd require us to balance survivors out along the lines of that, buffing them up by a 10%.Now, see, the devil is in the detail. If killers actually need to utilise this mechanic properly and thus demanding planning and skill not always present where as the +10% survivor buff is readily available, then the Hook Buff resulted in a killer nerf among lower ranks; exactly the effect we are looking for;
We work towards making the Blue and the Red line overlapping, and yes, contrary to initial instinct, this might mean that you have to buff killers in a way that only allows their power to be properly utilised by players with experience, thus you must increase the complex mechanics for killers in order to match the learning curve.wow
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The stats are a collection from Marth88's experiments and collection of statistics from over 300+ games recorded on youtube (Google Spreadsheet), together with escape rate statistics from the Dev stream.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@Tru3LemonThe stats are a collection from Marth88's experiments and collection of statistics from over 300+ games recorded on youtube (Google Spreadsheet), together with escape rate statistics from the Dev stream.
i thought it was 30% win rate on survivor
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At rank 20, yes. At rank 1, 40%, but the escape rate at rank 1 doesn't represent the escape rate of the Top percentile of the playerbase.
Here is why their statistics are fallicious:
And that is why custom statistics by great survivors (Marth88's experiment) result into a 5% pip-rate for killers at rank 1, without a single 4k in about (I think) 300 games.
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I really like this idea, but I can see it become confusing for new players to identify and learn about which hooks cause which effects, especially when under the pressure of a survivor wiggling on their shoulder. For this I propose two solutions.
1. In addition to the survivors receiving the debuff in the red circle to the left of the hud along with the name of the status effect, killers will receive one in yellow.
2. The tutorial should be updated to explain the new mechanic in addition to allowing new killer players to see the effects of each one.2 -
I always thought that more hooks should have more than one, well hook lol. The Basement is awesome because it's isolated and can fit more than 1 person but the appeal is the whole thing together, not the 4 hooks. I think it's cool to have single hooks and double hooks so it gives the Killer more choice instead of reacting. Because we as Killer DO react and we choose which reaction, you can't really plan things but you can manipulate what the Survivors plan which sucks. This would kind of but not really change that, it would just give us more modifiers to the match which is cool.
I may have missed this part but once you use one of these hooks that cause an effect is that the only time it happens? Like those special hooks are a one time use whether someone was sacrificed on them or not?
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I may have missed this part but once you use one of these hooks that cause an effect is that the only time it happens? Like those special hooks are a one time use whether someone was sacrificed on them or not?
There are 2 effects as the Choice hook has 2 hooks.
Upon hooking someone there for the first time, the other hook will be broken for the rest of the match. The effect of the Special hook however will remain, meaning that if they aren't sabotaged and survivors die in it a close area, then the killer can use that effect multiple times, and without a proper response from survivors:
The Bloody hook.
The killer permanently gains +0.75% extra movement-speed.the effect of that can be devastating.
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Dang man this is pretty cool. Thanks for the rep bro!
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I bloody love this idea, though not sure I like the idea of having two hooks sort of "sprouting out of one" from a design perspective I think that looks a little odd, but hell i'd kill to have hooks that add effects to the game! One's One' choice, maybe not attached to each other, but spawning on the basement walls or even on walls / pillars of the map. Make them map specific even, have special hooks garunteed in a certain place on a map, such as on the boat in grim pantry, like a basement but instead of power coming from easy defense, have its power come from the ability to enhance the killer or debuff survivors.
Hell maybe even add killer offerings in order to choose the potential debuff hook you get, sort of like a map offering. Hell maybe even give survivors the same offerings (if the hook effects are balanced enough) so that they can choose which they'd rather face.2 -
I'd say instead of a 2 hooks choice keep it one hook still but there's 2 special hooks on the map and no one knows what type will spawn until in game. So out of all the different types of hooks you never know which 2 can spawn.
The killer of course will see their 2 special hooks on the map same as gens and will have a warning when someone tries to sabo them at 50% reduced speed. The reason I went with 50% is because if someone brings a good TB in with sabo addons those hooks will get nuked.
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