Finisher mori, what about basekit unbreakable?
I really hope we're not getting an incoming slug meta. That ptb was horrible, with or without basekit unbreakable.
What i'd really like to see is the yellow mori basekit, but only working if there is one survivor left, which would hopefully discourage slugging the last two survivors.
And, give base-kit unbreakable when there are two survivors left to further discourage slugging for the 4k.
Forcing a hatch or mori only would be the more exciting ending of a killer-won match, and certainly be more fun than a slug fest.
Comments
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Finisher mori doesn't make slugging any better or worse, and there is no way we should get basekit unbreakable
There is absolutely no reason why killers shouldn't be able to slug for 4k, especially when every single aspect of the game ask for 4k
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Based
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"Killers now play a cool animation when they win"
Unacceptable buff survivors
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I suspect the plan is that yellow mori becomes basekit. That is the simplest change they can make, and allows moris to become more of a thing as people usually bring BP offerings. After doing that, they can start selling mori animations as a cosmetic.
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I'm hoping that it's just an auto-mori when the last survivor is downed or something. Can skip the need for unbreakable and it doesn't allow the game to drag on with endless slugging.
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I'm still gonna get bled out to the last second. Only diff is I'm gonna get mori'ed instead of placed on hook.
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I'd be fine, happy even with a weaker unbreakable at 2 left in order to discourage slugging. You could even bring back the finisher mori if they do down the last 2.
I highly doubt we'll get that though. :/
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Unbreakable should only be basekit for the last two survivors. Another way against slugging would be to let survivors when downed press a button, which grants them faster crawling speed with the negative of bleeding out fasster
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When we had this utterly failure of the Mori/unlimitedUnbreakable PTB, I was actually surprised how elaborate the whole thing was, with all this unlimited unbreakable, literal tunnel vision and tinkered perks.
When I heared Finisher Mori back then, I thought "oh yeah, when all survivors are slugged and no one has an unbreakable left, the killer gets an autowin, so he can't slug them for 4min and everyone moves on", something as simple as that. I never understood why we needed this complex sudden-death mechanic, just let the game end when the survivors chance of, well surviving, are less then 1% without anyone extending the game to griefe.
Back in the days before we had regeneration hooks there often were this situations where you, as the killer, might not have wanted THAT particular survivor to escape, maybe they BMed you or whatever, but they crawled into a deadzone/comp corner, and you could either risk that they escaped and mock you severely in chat, or bleed them out while you occasionally slashed your weapon in the direction of a hook.
In my eyes, the Finisher Mori should have just ended the game in such a situation with a nice finisher and everyone could move on. Does any survivor have an unused unbreakable or is on hook stage 1? Well, then the clock keeps ticking. Is everyone involved on hook stage 2 and got no perk to help? Just end the game. Thats what a Finisher Mori update should do. Maybe even give the slugged survivors without hookstages an option to resign and let them all move on to the Mori. But the whole thing should not offer any tangible benefit to either side, it should just be there to limit griefing and abuse opportunities.
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A game shouldn’t end automatically because four survivors are slugged. Killers should be punished in some way for this as it circumvents normal gameplay.
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Slugging four survivors during normal gameplay is kinda hard and not the thing you would expect. Did you actually read my comment with an open mind, or did you just came down on it, because it was written by a killer main?
My take was that a Finisher Mori update should remove the opportunity for griefing and BMing from the killers side by just advancing a clearly unwinnable game, without making it this weird sudden death mechanic that it was in the PTB from ages ago, where the Mori would start the very frame the last survivor hit the floor.
But well, I will humor you: if the killer slugs all four survivors, that means that the survivors severely missplayed, as such an occurence is highly impropable. So why do you want to punish the killer for that? At this stage a 4% escape is much more likely then you think. And if the killer babysits each hook until the hanging survivor either advanced naturally to stage 2 or they used up their three unhooking attemps, then this further proofs my point that removing the opportunity to griefing would be a win for the game.
While we are at that point, just give killers the perk "Just Leave" - a survivor who lingers for 40/30/20s at the exit gates area without healing a teammate will get exposed and the exit gates will block for them, until they move further away then 40m from that exit gate. While exposed, their aura will be shown to the killer, thus reducing the ability for survivors to grief the killer and waste unneccessary time.
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You actually just lost me at the end of your first paragraph. You being a killer main doesn’t really matter here. The game shouldn’t end because four survivors are slugged, which is what happened during the finisher mori tests on PTB and why the idea at least in that iteration was scrapped. Killers would slug all four people at 5 gens, mori the last then the other three automatically died.
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Now you lost me. I completely argued against the PTBs version of the sudden death mori mechanic, so why do you bring that up?
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Slugging is absolutely a normal gameplay developer has put into the game, You really should rephrase your words to "because I heavily dislike slugging" instead of "circumvents normal gameplay" which is just objectively wrong
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Agreed, killers should be punished for winning and for survivors playing badly.
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And exact same thing will happen in current game, actually there is fair amount of nurses doing that daily
Finisher mori doesn't make killers to down faster, doesn't make killers to break pallets faster, doesn't killers to move faster, doesn't do literally ANYTHING beside simply to stop killers from wasting 4 minutes of survivors, somehow people can't see things objectively and immediately throws a hissy fit because "it will buff slugging" which is in fact blatantly wrong
The only logical reason to oppose the idea is "Because survivors can't waste slugging killer's time for 4 minutes anymore", which is basically just a toxic survivor's perspective
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I really don't understand why survivors didnt like the original finisher Mori. The number one complained about thing is being slugged out and the finisher Mori literally prevented it from happening entirley. If the killer downed everyone then the game ended. If they didnt down everyone then they all got to get up for free. Seems like it's more of an ego thing not to want the original finisher Mori because it removes the less than 1% chance of actually escaping the killer and getting revenge. So instead people would rather just be miserable for the majority of the time I guess.
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The original finisher Mori had this sudden death mechanic where the game transitioned over to the Mori animation the very frame the last survivor hit the floor. That was held in check somewhat by the base unlimited unbreakable, but it made the game even MORE sweaty! Killers would try to down everyone while survivors were constantly picking themselves up, eliminating any pressure that a slug could pose, freeing all the survivors to just hug gens.
Some killers like infinite T3 Myers and Oni become real menaces under this system, and a good Oni could turn any game into a sudden death by the 2:30min mark, with basically no danger for themselves. And thats just uncool and no one liked that. Getting tabled by an Oni already feels brutal, but in this PTB, is was extremely savage.
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That's the problem in basekit unbreakable
instant finisher mori never makes anything different to killers, infinite T3 Myers or oni is ALREADY a menace and a good oni CAN turn any game into a sudden death by the 2:30 mark RIGHT NOW without ANY PROBLEM AT ALL, with basically no danger for themselves EXACTLY AS TODAY
Any anti-slugging perks will just work fine because there is no reason you'll wait for it to activate in very last seconds, all it does is removing unnecessary slugging at the end and nothing else, LITERALLY nothing else
Killers don't move faster, don't hit faster, don't break faster, don't find suvivors faster, there is literally no actual benefit for killers in finisher mori
Basekit unbreakable on other hand is literally one of the strongest perk in the game, and now it's free basekit for everyone, of course this is ridiculous and excessively buff survivors
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True, but in a normal game, if you play infinite T3 Myers, there is always the chance that one of the downed survivors has Unbreakable and will use it ince you pick up the last survivor. This happens all the time. With the PTB sudden mori mechanic the game ended before any unbreakbales or Flip Flop/Powerplays or potential Deliverances could be used, it was a true sudden death mechanic.
So while a comeback from a4 slug Oni in regular game isn't easy, there is at least a chance for it. Thats why I would link the reduced Finsher Mori mechanic to all this perks. If the survivors can potentially still turn this somehow arround, they stay slugged, but if they got no chances left, just end the game. In a way, its less of a tactical use and more like how the EGC prevents the game to be taken hostage, while not really offering a tangible benefit to the killer. Nearly always there is more then enough time to reset and run for the doors, and the timer barely comes into play.
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Isn't this just a killer win? Honestly I'd rather have the game end immediately so I can queue for another.
Unbreakable is just too powerful to be basekit. In the 2vs8 mode you get self-care on your last hook and that would be way less disruptive to normal play in comparison (not that I'm suggesting that).
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With the PTB sudden mori mechanic game 3 survivors can still get to use unbreakable, and flip flop powerplays or deliverance doesn't work even on today simply because killer has no obligation to pick anyone up at all
I'm not opposed to simply giving them grace period instead of ridiculous things like basekit unbreakable, but any counter that is working today will work on PTB just fine so talking as if "there is no counter" is simply wrong
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One thing for sure: Basekit Unbreable JUST. CANT. HAPPEN! The game isn't made for this, so the sudden death mori can't be happening either. But a Finisher Mori when everyone is slugged and no one has any Unbreakable left? Sounds about right to me.
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"when everyone is slugged and no one has any unbreakable left" still technically has a problem of immediately notifying the killers it's existence and letting them deal with it, though
I believe flat 1 min duration before the mori would be slightly better
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I've seen a mod comment under another post that it isn't the same finisher-mori tested before, I can't remember the person anymore. So it shouldn't make killers slug more in theory.
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Probably they make more cosmetics with custom mori like were-elk and naughty bear.
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lmao
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Greedy
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I don't think killers should be punished for slugging, specially since it not circumvents normal gameplay, its a part of the normal gameplay. I had many situations where everyone ended up slugged because someone missplayed or people were too greed on gens/saves trying to do them right in front of my face. 4 people slugged is more a survivor fault than a killer intention, specially since it can be unmade easily with a single Unbrekable or a healing perk/medkit.
@topic
They've said in the anniversary stream it will only affect the last survivor. Probably it will be something like yellow mori basekit more than anything else.
EDIT: recently i had a situation where 3 randoms tried to get a pallet save when i was slugged and the killer just downed them all. Maybe he thought we were a SWF Bm'ing because he left all of us to bleed out. I wish in those situations we could just be sacrificed, mori'ed or choose to bleed out faster. At least for me, if the game is over with everyone on the ground i should just end right away.
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One day your dream will be realised and BHVR will implement your perk idea.
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If all 4 survivors are slugged the game is over the vast vast majority of the time. The finisher mori just stopped wasting everyone's time. It doesn't change the outcome of the match.
Basekit unbreakable is giving all survivors one of the strongest perks in the game for free.
These are 2 very different things.
The main problem with the PTB was unbreakable, not the mori. Survivors were running sabo, going to hook dead zones, offering bad hook spawn maps (like Midwitch) with hook offerings ect. to abuse the unbreakable they all had.
Before someone complains about a killer like Oni slugging the entire team, if that happens the game is over anyway so what's the difference exactly?
If someone has Unbreakable it should easily be used before the entire team is down. If it's the last survivor downed that has it the game is still basically over.
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they said it is gonna work like a cypress so the killer literally only gets a cool animation at the end, but a base kit unbreakable would be insane as that would mean survivors all now have 2 god tier perks build in pretty much meaning domination each game
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You have quite a strange definition of "greed", especially when you don't call survivors asking for free hatches "greedy"
You can't have a double standard like that, unless you don't care about how you looks from outside
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What will happen to Tenacity?
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It would still do the same and make it even faster, but I would buff the iron will part of it to 100%.
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Even as a survivor main, I’d be happy for your idea to not just be a perk but become base kit for killers. Unnecessary lingering beyond a certain timeframe (that can account for waiting to help a teammate etc) should just be outright punished as a base kit. Also removing crouch button when killer is within radius of exit too perhaps - but keeping in other gestures for ‘point tech’ could be a thing.
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I usually let the last person go just because it would be boring for me to slug to get a 4k. I guess I'm just different. I also hate it when Killers leave the last person on the ground to bleed out by the hook and then camp the hooked person so they don't jump off the hook.
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The idea of a finisher mori is problematic. No one is going to want to be the last survivor if it goes live, which will negatively affect how matches are played.
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Yellow Mori Basekit, the other Moris give extra Moriable targets on Death Hook, and they all give more BP when you successfully Mori. So you get one basekit but Yellow Mori gives one more Surv, Green 2 more, and Iri Three more (total of 4). Also, please make the basekit Mori allow me to Mori one Survivor, period, not just the last Survivor. I don't really care enough about a 4k to go for the last dude, I would rather let them have hatch or give them hatch. I want the ability to choose who I get to Mori. In addition make all Moris, including basekit ones and perks like Rancor or Devour Hope, give BP for the event.
Anything else besides this is a bad idea. It would also make this Mori-loving Ghostface very very very sad, please do not nerf my fun photo-snapping sessions with my Survivor friends. Please don't make me choose between mercy and my cool animation. Let me have my cinematic moment whenever I desire it, not just at the end. I don't like slugging for the 4k and don't wanna do it just to get my Mori.
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finisher mori never does anything to affect matches in practical circumstance
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I think the finisher mori is unnecessary. I think we could avoid problems like the 4-man slug by simply allowing survivors to bleed out faster, or even a slightly more complex unbreakable that requires another slugged survivor nearby to permanently convert part of their recovery progress to allow their fellow survivor to fully recover from the dying state.
From a UI perspective, this would look similar to the regression meter on a generator. So, Survivor A and Survivor B are both slugged within ~3 metres of each orher. Survivor A permanently converts 25% of their recovery progress to allow Survivor B to pick themselves up. This means that Survivor A can no longer recover beyond 70%.
What purpose is the finisher mori/last survivor standing system supposed to serve? As someone who occasionally plays killer and doesn't care at all about getting the 4k, I don't see a need for it. I enjoy being able to decide if I want to give the last survivor hatch or gate, and I also enjoy being able to have slug races. I don't want to see these positive interactions removed.
Give killers the Ivory (Green) mori basekit, and retire the other mori offerings. I think this alone is a much better idea than the finisher mori.
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Finisher mori is far simpler and has much less impact in actual games than those "simple fix" though
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Extra speed.
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Basekit yellow mori: yes
Basekit unbreakable: not in the way it has worked so far.
I think the ability to pick yourself up should only activate when all survivors are slugged. If there is any survivor available to go for the rescue, then that should be the play they have to make. But if all remaining survivors are down, one of them can pick themselves up. Once one gets up it deactivates again and they have to rescue the other(s), until all are downed again, and repeat.
This would only affect killers slugging all survivors (very rare) or killers slugging for the 4K (tiresome and unnecessary). It would make 4K slugging pointlessly risky, as you're now wasting your own time moreso than the survivors.
Slugging as part of normal play throughout the match would remain untouched and a valid pressure tactic.
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Hopefully they don't slug- camp the three people, if they slug them near each other.
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i am pretty sure they're just giving you cypress mori and retiring the add-on. it is nothing crazy.
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Sometimes Killers like to give the last survivor hatch.
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Wouldn't it be cool to have an 10 hook minimum requirement for the finisher mori?
Y'know, like it was a reward for an absolute victory type deal, so that camping and tunneling a survivor out is far less likely to allow you to get your "style points" win? The best way to realistically attain it would be to spread hooks, as if you hook a survivor and they SOH to give hatch, cause you've rushed out 2 other players, you won't get it.
Be like a natural incentive and "challenge" for killers to go for instead of just hard focusing their invisible MMR rating as their only incentive.
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They'd have to down them all right next to each other. At that point it's the survivors mistake.
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That would be neat. Have two activation conditions: last remaining survivor or 10 hooks, which would allow you to mori at 2 remaining survivors.
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