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Two specific suggestions to reduce Endgame slugging: Healed / Saved by the Entity
Three players are dead on hook. The hatch is closed.
And still some Killers finds it necessary to let the last survivor bleed out on the floor.
Arguments for slugging:
- The last Survivor could still somehow manage to get free, and find the hatch.
- The last Survivor could still somehow manage to get out of sight, escape the chase and open an exit gate.
If the last Survivor manages to do that is that not somewhat a "skill issue" of the Killer?
The facts:
An injured player on the floor waiting to bleed out has one of the most unfun experiences in Dead by Daylight.
After three Survivors are dead, the hatch is closed and the last survivor is injured and laying on the floor the game should be over. All the Killer has to do is to pick up the last Survivor and carry him to a hook.
But no, Killers are able to extend the game and the suffering of the last Survivor. This is not a healthy game mechanic but purely sadistic real-life conduct of human beings - completely unnecessary.
If players are not able to conduct themselves in a fair way it is the responsibility of the game developers to intervene.
In this case the intervention can happen in form of the entity.
- Endgame mechanic - Saved by the Entity
"During the End Game Collapse a Survivor who is in the dying state lying on the floor and fully recovered is Saved by the Entity and escapes."
Reasoning
If the Killer fails to hook inured Survivors during the Endgame Collapse before they fully recover themselves they have missed their chance. The Survivor escapes automatically after fully recovering.
2. Anti Slugging mechanic - Healed by the Entity
Killers can still let the last survivor bleed out as long as the hatch is not closed. In that situation the Endgame Collapse is also not triggered. This situation is equally unfun for Survivors and calls for the Entity to intervene.
"The last remaining Survivor who is in the dying state lying on the floor and fully recovered is automatically Healed by the Entity to an injured state after 120 seconds."
Reasoning
Killers have 120 seconds to find the last remaining Survivor. If the Killer fails to do that because of his own neglect to actually hook a downed Survivor it is a fair gameplay mechanic that the entity intervenes to give the Survivor a reasonable chance to escape.
Test Options for the Public Test Realm
Saved by the Entity should work as intended if it can be implemented.
Healed by the Entity may need some testing to find a reasonable timeframe until the Entity intervenes.
Maybe the entity could intervene already after 60 seconds…
...because lying on the floor crawling around is no fun at all.
Comments
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no im tempted to explain ways to abuse it or reasons why it shouldn't be a thing but I don't have the energy tonight so just no
7 -
Unlike the last survivor who t-bags at the exit gate like they are so skillful despite there are still be 3 gens left?
Both are toxic behaviour and devs are not going to change it.
6 -
This really isn't lore accurate, why would the Entity save or heal Survivors? There's also several flaws with this:
- Saved by the Entity: There is no reason to "save" someone who is dying in 2 minutes due to endgame collapse. They lost. You lost. It sucks to be slugged but you're dead in 2 minutes, just wait the 2 minutes. Nobody seems to have issues waiting in the exit gate for 2 minutes so why is being slugged for 2 minutes while you wait for collapse such a big ask? This tool can also be abused by SWFs who force a four man slug after opening a gate to get a free 4 man out, or to force the Killer to down and kick the hatch SOLELY so they don't get an adept they may have been working for. Remember how everyone always does locker standoffs with Tombstone Myers when they try to get the achievement? Now imagine that times 1000. We shouldn't be rewarding bad behavior or adding new griefing techniques, I don't care how much you or anyone else hates being four man slugged or slugged at all. Absolutely should never be added, being slugged in the endgame should not be a get out of death free card for the Survivor. You lost.
- Healed by the Entity: 120 seconds is way the hell too much and I think you know it's way too much. You don't need "120 seconds for the Killer to find the other Survivor and hook them" nor do we need to put a bunch of stress on a Killer JUST trying to go for a 4k. Killers are ALLOWED to 4k. 30 seconds max, you shouldn't need more than that if you're actually being slugged like this because the Killer's probably looking for the other person. And what happens if the Killer gets looped by someone, someone who maybe hacked or someone who has on perks their KIller cannot counter? So both Survivors just get to go free after 120 seconds simply because the Killer has trouble catching one? Just because your friend runs the Killer for 120 seconds, you now get to have a free pass out to get the hatch or the door for doing nothing but lie there? What sense does that make? That doesn't sound very fun or fair for M1 Killers or Killers who happen to slug well. And again, this should not be a thing in this form at all, because it ONCE AGAIN can be used to grief by denying Killer adepts for the most petty reasons. Just make it a 2 minute bleedout, we don't NEED all this. Nobody seems to care if they have to wait 2 minutes at the gate so clearly, 2 minutes of bleedout is a-okay.
I need you to realize that not every single Killer in this game is Billy, Blight, or Nurse who would NEED a change like this. Most Killers would be hit by these way too hard even if they DIDN'T slug for the 4k, simply for wanting a friggin' 4k. Both of these are needless Survivor buffs to an issue that can simply be fixed with literally one thing: making the bleedout timer 2 minutes instead of four since people are fine with that wait time. Or, we could add a bleedout button after 2 minutes. There is utterly zero reason to buff Survivors in the endgame because of a loss - unless you also think we need a last minute catchup mechanic for Killers who haven't got a kill by endgame time, which is the only way anyone let alone the Devs could ever remotely consider something like this fair.
Until then, put on Unbreakable, Adrenaline, or Plot Twist and wait until the Devs come up with a solution that is fair to both sides and isn't exploitable by bad actors.
Because Killers are allowed to win the game and slugging is an intended part of the game.
1 -
I would rather prefer that the Survivor on the ground can just have a suicide option or instant bleed-out at this point when there is really no way that they can get up anymore.
5 -
This should've been implemented years ago.
Just make it either only available when 1 or 2 survivors remain, or just always allow the option at any time once the survivor is at the "find help" stage of recovery (about 36 seconds iirc).
3 -
This isn't very well thought out and sounds very much in favor of survivor for no real reason. Why not let survivors instantly bleed themselves out instead of giving them a free escape?
Saved by Entity would just be abused by SWFs to create unwinnable scenarios for killer, and Healed by the Entity wouldn't actually do anything, killers would just camp the slugged player and instantly down them again once they got picked up to heal state. 120 seconds is also very long and it wouldn't be very helpful.
I think if they want people to stop slugging for the 4k or bleeding out, they need to make systems that detect when a match is truly over. When everyone is slugged or hooked, why not allow the remaining survivors to "give up" so to say?
It could be super simple. Once the survivor team has given up, any slugged player is revealed to the killer, and interacting with them will instantly teleport them from the ground to the hook, kind of like the kick in 2v8. If the killer does NOT interact with the survivors within 30 seconds or so, this can be tweaked, then they are instantly sacrificed to the entity anyway. You know, just speed the whole process of walking around the map, picking people up and hooking them? I could go into detail, but I mean, just anything to speed the process of ending an already finished match would be great.
Another thing that would help would be to update and improve the final 1v1 mechanic, even the final 1v2. Right now it's a 50/50 for hatch and then another 50/50 for gate, and it's just not very interesting. I've got lots of ideas that would make these scenarios more fun, but whatever.
Hell, even giving the killer the option to just end the trial and let the last survivor go instantly would probably help a lot. Then a 3k would feel like a decisive win where they can go for the 4k as a "bonus", but ultimately, the killer themselves can choose to end the match.
4 -
Is slugging really a big problem? I play only survivor at it happens rarely.
2 -
The easiest way to stop excessive slugging, is for the game to automatically teleport a survivor to a 2v8 cage if they’ve been slugged for 60 seconds. This will stop excessive slugging for the 4k, and will help stop survivors that purposely try to create situations where the killer can’t hook them.
And then balance the 2v8 cages accordingly. Maybe 2v8 cages don’t trigger killer hook perks, but saving a survivor from a 2v8 cage triggers survivor hook perks. Maybe add a rule that if a killer knocks a survivor to the ground (or grabs them) 3 times on the same health state then the survivor gets automatically sent to a 2v8 cage…to stop killers from excessively extending the game with the whole “slug a survivor then force them to wiggle off their shoulder” repeated loop.
1 -
I want to note sometimes the killer cannot pick the survivor up because no hooks are nearby, and/or the survivor has a wiggle build
2 -
Yep, this. So glad hooks respawn now, it takes a lot of the teeth out of the most obnoxious forms of sabo-wiggle squads…
2 -
I'd be okay with this as long as it only applied once 2 survivors were dead. And that you are instantly sacrificed once you go into a cage, because otherwise, if you were on stage 1, you wouldn't be able to self unhook to sacrifice yourself and give the last player a chance at hatch.
0 -
Thats why we soon getting finishing mori's so there wont be slugging at the end game collapse survivors will instantly die and game will be finished. Honestly rare W for killers.
2 -
I mentioned 2v8 cages because survivors can’t self unhook from cages.
I’m worried that the new finisher mori will just be “when there are 2 survivors left, auto mori the next survivor that gets grabbed or knocked to the ground”. And the game just immediately goes to the hatch phase.
0 -
Share those ideas. It is not a "whatever" situation.
This game is still around after so many years. There could be countless ways to improve 1vs4 games.
Maybe it is to late for Dead by Daylight because too many mechanics impact each other.
If Behaviour ever makes a similar 1vs4 game the same mistakes could be prevented by implementing mechanics to prevent unfun and unfair situations.
0 -
From a game health perspective it simply is NOT ACCEPTABLE that any player has to spend 2 minutes without any power to intervene waiting for the end result.
Any good game design encourages a new experience after 30-40 seconds.
The last survior being trolled by the Killer does not have a choice. He is forced to bleed out without ANY options to be saved.
0 -
I agree with all suggestions for the ability to add a "instant bleed-out" button for the last (!) remaining survivor.
For the purpose of game challenges this should count similar as a hook or kill.
1 -
2vs8 cages are NOT working as intended.
Experienced killers are able to guess and even tell because of Aura reading where cages are.
Basically the just run to the cages to make them teleport. This is a very effective way to kill survivors because the rescuers are actually slower to traverse the map.
Get hooked. Stare at your hook bar going down. Pray a survivor reaches you before the Killer. Killer arrives first. Cage is teleported. Respawned with no other Survivor near. Bar continues to go down. The survivor spent the majority of the game in a horrible situation without any power to do anything at all.
Also here the Entity should intervene:
Either fully restore the Hook bar any time the Cage is teleported.
Or even better
Immeditately heal and release the Survivor after the Cage has teleported.
The underlying issue:
Killers can purposefully ruin the ability of Survivors to get bloodpoints by unhooking fellow survivors by slugging or rushing to cages.
For survivor this only leaves the ability to gain bloodpoints by doing generators.
While playing Killer I manage to get up to 200'000 Bloodpoints if I play well and hook Survivors 12 times, prevent generator completion.
As a Survivor I barely manage to get 100'000 Bloodpoints on a good game by doing Generators, unhooking and healing other Survivors.
On those bad games where Killers slug, camp and rush cages I barely manage to get 25'000 Bloodpoints even though I spent 20+ Minutes on a game.
Killers should once again be enticed to play fairly by encouraging the goal of getting 12 hooks. Slugging and Cage rushing to kill Survivors should not be a vaild game mechanic.
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