Questions for killer mains
Genuinely wondering why a lot of you complain about meta as if most of it is caused by killer. Anti tunnel is meta because tunneling is seen so often, even after the nerf pop pain res still remains in the killer meta and people who “gen rush” are viewed as boring as if they’re doing something wrong. I could want to run meme perks but it wouldn’t matter and would be pointless because killers 9 times out of 10 will never be for it. “It’s not being toxic we want to play the game as well” don’t get me wrong I understand when you guys say that but how are you gonna go and say this but then be upset at survivors when they just run meta and play the game instead. Meme perks are pointless if no one wants to meme and bad perks just aren’t worth running at all which you know because I’ve heard it many times “pop pain res is meta because there’s no other regression worth running”. So I’m just curious as to why there are so many complaints as if killers can’t control most of the game.
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The issue with the "tunnelling is seen so often" thing is that the killer is pressured to remove someone from the game ASAP. With 4 survivors, thats 1 on hook, 1 going for save, 1 in chase and 1 on gens in the best case scenario (unless survivors ######### up massively somewhere). In most cases, it's closer to 3 on gens, 1 in chase, with small periods of above.
Removing a survivor turns it into 1 on hook, 1 saving, 1 in chase, 0 on gens at best, and 2 on gens 1 in chase at worst. Infinitely more manageable, as you're much more likely to disturb 2 on gens than 3 on gens. It's also why, on the other side of the coin, gen slowdown is meta; because effectively neutralizing 1 survivor's worth of gen progress has about the same effect.
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My current go-to build is Franklin's/Weave Attunement, as it is kinda fun and effective, but it will probably gone for good in a months time max.
As my third perk I run PainRes, because the game without any slowdown is very painful for killer.
My fourth perk is flexible and I usually run something fun here, like Trail of Torment, Unknowns stealth perk, Coup, Deerstalker or Spies, with Spies actually being my most used perk in this slot.
Its a very dangerous and aggressive chase build with only token regression, and if Weave Attunement gets nerfed I might be tempted to run POP again, because why bother with anything? Survivors didn't want to adept to Weave, so it got complaint about so much that it got nerfed and in the end nothing changes.
That aside, my build allows very few mistakes and can be pretty unforgiving, but it allows me to get into the thicked quite regularly and having very little off-time out of chase ... which is needed, because, as everyone knows: gens fly these days and even one dedicated gen jockey can slowly erode all your progress while you try to play the hook game.
Yesterday I had a game vs an obvious SWF, all running SB and/or DH, Resilience and Windows plus flashies. I had two on death hook pretty early, but then dropped chase when it was obvious that they would take me on the long tour over he map; committing would have 100% cost me the game. I got one lucky kill later at 2 gens remaining, then broke a tight chase at 1 gen because I had a feeling that they other two were duoing the last gen in the odd corner.
Due to Resilience they had stayed injured and I arrived with barely time on the clock. But that allowed me to down them both, skillfully noting the telltale signs of DH and thus baiting it out, and then methodologically hunting for the last wounded survivor. Got lucky with my pick of Spies, as they ratted out the safe attempt preemptively.
But that 4K was only due to some very good decisions on my side and them missplaying and staying injured. They would have eaten any slightly lesser experienced killer for breakfast and the game would have ended with sour 0-1K. I would have had more breathing room if I went full on gen regression, but well, I also don't want to be a meta slave, blindly following the most played perks without any variety, but my descision in my build often costs me games and makes many trials VERY difficult. The situation isn't helped in the slightest that like 90% of all the obvious SWF feel also the need to further push thinks in their favor by buring survivor favorable map offerings. God, I hate this so much.
Post edited by Akumakaji on4 -
Its the same on both sides. As survivor the only meta perk I actually enjoy is sprint burst (and resilience if that counts as meta), but my other two slots are either anti tunnel or something. On the killer end theres no fun meta perks, but you gotta bring em to have a chance. I'd LOVE to run vault speed myers or mint rag weave/franklins every match but if I did that I'd probably need to tunnel I'd wanted to win.
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us vs them truly is the dead horse of all time…
if you want to go argue with killer players that argue them playing every game as if there's money on the line is because of survivors you can do that, but can you not keep pretending that's a single sided issue that one side needs to put in the work to solve?
players play to win, and decide on their builds and playstyle in ways that make them win. if the difference between the meta and non-meta is so profound that's a balance issue, not a player one.
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You are operating under an incorrect assumption. Real tunneling doesn't happen that often at all (once you are outside newbie Players). Many of the changes implemented have more to do with how loud and often some people scream about things. Many things in the META exist purely because, annoying as it may be, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. It holds true for both roles, Survivor and Killer. People complain about something long enough that it annoys the DEV into doing something.
Let me give you an example. Face Camping was never a huge issue out of newbie Players because it was a bad strategy. But endless wailing about it eventually got the current setup where you might unhook yourself if the Killer stays too close for too long and nobody else is about. The reality is the only time you unhook yourself is when the Killer wants you to do it. Killers who utilize the hook for bait, and know what they are doing, have always proxy-camped or intercepted based on timing so they aren't affected at all. The reality of the change is bad Killers learned proper technique because some people couldn't stand the Killer's breath while they sat on the hook. It was a big win for the Killer role, and three steps backwards for the wailing Players complaining.
Post edited by EQWashu on5 -
I would upvote you 5 times if I could.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
Anti-tunneling sees so much play because it's good if you're being tunneled... and it's also good if you're not being tunneled. That's why the meta is so stale on both sides, because there are perks that are superior in every way to others. Why reset pallets when you can stun the killer for 5 seconds? Why make survivors scream when you can catch back up with them in 5 seconds? But all the devs see is "Too popular? Nerf. Not popular enough? Buff." No understanding of the game at all.
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I’m aware that tunneling can be used for pressure but my overall question was why complain about that being meta and a survivors play style when you’re forcing it there would be no need to run anti tunnel if you’re not tunneled and if you run it anyway without ever being tunneled it’s basically a wasted slot and as I said before pop pain res is in the meta and seen almost every match so why wouldn’t people feel the need to gen rush as often as they do now killers actions have more control over a game than a survivors and that decides on how people will play or have to play so why complain about it as a killer main
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I don’t recall saying I was here to argue I was wondering why complain about something that whether you like to admit it or not caused 🤷♂️
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Survivors aren't exactly innocent when it comes to arguments over metas.
While I agree with their changes to how generators work with the regression cap, we have to remember there was a time when generators were 10 seconds faster to complete, so not bringing any regression was asking to lose. So, we had gen kick meta with Eruption/Call of Brine/Overcharge and that got slapped for being a bit TOO reliable. We had Skull Merchant who could hold 3 gens extremely well, got a good slap. Before both we had undying/ruin combo, and justifiably it got slapped.
But that's gen regression, and they all got nerfs for good reasons. What about anything other than regression, like information? Survivors hated Ultimate Weapon and that got changed, even though it just made survivors scream and reveal themselves. The killer still had to choose one target while the other 3 could do what they needed to and it didn't effect generators by itself by much, but it did get nerfed for being disliked and overall too easy to use, right?
Another example is Weave Attunement/Franklins. A lot of people hate this combo, right? Yet, it's a different meta than regression that has a counter as long as you place your items away from any high traffic areas. Problem is, not every survivor knows this and won't return to grab their item if the killer hits them in a high traffic spot, right? And Weave is getting a change soon due to this, I would assume.
Next, let's look at survivor metas starting with Made For This. A perk I saw survivors defending till' the end despite the fact that it could extend chases far longer than it should and stacked with other haste perks to make chases just not worth it against those running it. I myself could make Wesker players ragequit with MFT and Dark Theory because it meant loops within Dark Theory lasted 3-4 more loops around the pallet. Why did we defend that and not anything killer had?
How about old Decisive Strike, where it didn't deactivate on a conspicuous action or at endgame? Meaning the killer is punished for stopping them from doing a gen in their face or attempting to secure a kill last minute? I still see some people say it should still do that, for some reason. Used to be paired with Unbreakable as a meta as well.
My point is, there's always going to be an annoying meta on both sides. The best way to go about it is to be as unbiased as possible about them.
Post edited by ChaosWam on8 -
It is a circle. If the killer doesn’t bring meta perks, the survivors still will and they’ll steamroll the killer and teabag at the exit. So the killer brings meta perks, which incentivizes survivors to bring meta perks, ad infinitum.
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this is why I can’t wait for 2v8 to return; no perks means no meta builds on either side 😁
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Unfortunately with the way this game is, we have a meta on both sides which can be shaken up but then we get a new meta so you see there’s always gonna be players on both ends running the same perks.
Personally I only try to limit myself to one anti gen perk because I like to use a different variety of perks. The way some maps are badly designed encourage weak killers to use a full gen regression build and they will tunnel out someone quick in early game to gain pressure.0 -
I have my own question for killer mains:
Can I be your fren 😊
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But people figured out the meta there in week 2 of 2v8… ._.
This game is never gonna be free of meta. The only solution is to hard nerf chase and gen perks until other perks become more viable.
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You can always be my fren in 2v8 or 1v4 but I demand the occasional murder selfie. If you're okay with that yeah, you can be my fren. Boop the Ghostie pls?
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I play both sides, but I main killer just for the simple fact of, often times, I don't like playing in a team. I just pefer playing solo because if anything goes wrong in the match, the only person to blame is myself. I'm also just not the best survivor anymore. I took a year break from dbd, so I'm really rusty.
Out of my 1k+ hours, a good chunk of that has been killer. And honestly, sometimes the match IS out of your control as killer. Sometimes the team of survivors are just better than you, sometimes I'm playing a killer that I don't have a lot of hours on like my main Pig or Ghostface. Sometimes, I'm playing with the dumbest killer build that I know won't win me the game because I just wanna joke around on a meme build . Even so, both sides of the coin have their annoying metas and one side isn't to complete blame. If I don't bring meta perks on killer, 40-50% of the time, I'm just gonna get stomped out by survivors with meta builds and I see my gens fly by like I never existed in the match. But, I don't really care what anybody plays with, and I hardly complain about perks tbh on either side.
I genuinely do think a lot of people these forums need to spend more time playing both sides rather than just one. A lot of these threads only make pointless us vs them convos that just cycle through endlessly. Video games are always gonna have a meta that people will follow, SPECIALLY if it's a pvp game, where you are playing against other people. Out of the 100+ perks in this game, of course some are just gonna be better than others. There is literally no way to avoid such a thing.
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Weave isn’t scheduled to see any changes until November. Weirdly, they’re modifying Distortion before it (in October). So you’ve at least got longer than a month to enjoy the near permanent wall hacks of Weave + Franklin’s.
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Neccesarily tunneling is not the best strat always to remove one survivor quickly because you are not pressuring the others at all. Good example were my 2 games I played today first I tunneled meg whole game ignoring others I had challenge to mori and did that but I only end up with 2K securing it in endgame. At least this is case with slower m1 killers.
Second game I chased others too but secured early kill when I hooked one of them second time and she was only tried to be saved until too late and I downed the survivor attemping rescue so she died to second hook. I got 4K 2 gens remaining. So for me true tunneling is not working but targeting someone works much better.
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Which was first? Chicken or the egg? You could also say killers tunnel because gens are too fast. As it is the most effective strat to remove a quarter of your opponents team, which gives them less time to get gens done. And it doesnt even help all the time when you tunnel, like you could end up chasing someone with a good sense for chases, because its a good looper and all that.
I know people dont like to hear it but tunneling actually still requires some skill with the hunt and measuring whether its worth it or not, unlike holding M1 on a gen while someone else gets chased.
And tunneling just increased because anti "genrush" perks got gutted. Why are they still used? Cause you still need some slowdown, now more than ever. Doesnt mean they are any good to counter the genrush. And im not even blaming survivors for doing gens, its a simple fact there is nothing else, its the devs fault that time management goes extremely in either one direction depending on how many survivors are left.
But i keep seeing people blame killers for simply trying to win, like you do right now with this post. I think it should stop, for years people are arguing over something that is entierly on the developers task.1 -
This is the main problem imo. I play most killers and own all at +3 prestige. I favour some over others but I like to mix it up when I get bored and will often play weaker killers using non meta perks. If I win I get no response, if I lose survivors act like they just won a comp DBD tournament and will often start taunting mid game. Survivors bring it upon themselves time and time again and are often the cause of what they complain about the most. I don't even use meta perks these days and haven't done for ages, but when I do try to have a bit of fun and mix it up it just becomes insufferable so I will often switch back to stronger killers to stomp them.
As you suggest the cycle just repeats itself indefinitely. Survivors should be encouraging non meta perks and killers, but instead they like to pretend they've done something special and start trying to play like a bully squad, which in turn makes killers annoyed and they dish out their own form of justice by using the best killers, perks & tactics.
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Since Killers receive no reward for not tunneling and since it is far and away the best way to win games, why wouldn't they do it? Same thing goes for survivor. If the best way to win is complete gens fast or waste the killer's time, then why wouldn't they bring perks like DH and DS or BNP toolboxes. Its a nasty cycle that would require BHVR to make some major changes, both to perks/items and the core gameplay to fix. The only thing any of us can do is play the game how we want it to be played and not expect our opposition to play how we want them to. Its just the way the game is.
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I am a Pig main and I very rarely run any gen regression, in fact my most often used build is Blood Warden, Remember Me, No Way Out, and Terminus. I jokingly call it my "perkless Pig" build because of how often I get the 4K before the last generator is finished, making the 4 perks never come into play. If you get zero use of any of your four perks, did you even need to bring them?
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Nerfing gen regression made the tunneling issue worse because now the only viable gen regression is pain res which is barely even enough in most cases so you kinda have to tunnel to make the game a 3v1 as quickly as possible.
I don't hate the survivor meta rn but I do hate if I try to be nice and spread hooks out 4 gens pop before anyone is dead.
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