There is now no incentive to p100 a survivor
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Honestly, if anything, I think lobby dodging is becoming more of a problem, and will be because of everything being hidden.
I’m watching people come into lobby and leave after twenty or so seconds. Whatever they’re using to discern whether or not they want to stay is definitely happening more. SoloQ teammates switched out five times in same lobby.
And if you ARE running SoloQ and happen to join lobby closely to when others do, you’re dodged by the killer two or three times before one stays. Taking away the ability to see prestige didn’t help at all. It’s making it worse because now, if the killer even THINKS you might be an SWF, they’re leaving.I’m not entirely sure why so many survivors are leaving and dodging lobbies now, but perhaps taking away the ability to see their “perceived” usefulness of teammates actually made things worse. Which I think is dumb as prestige is not an indication of skill. I’ve seen many TERRIBLE p100s and have had some random p1 run the killer for 5 gens.
The main point is that we all know that prestige is nothing more than bragging rights. Killers dodge SWF teams not prestige numbers. And I’d hazard to guess the survivors who are dodging more frequently now in SoloQ are the same SWFs who complained about killers dodging lobbies and play SoloQ when their friends aren’t around.
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- We've and others have stated before exactly why it can't be optional without defeating the purpose of hiding it in the first place. If you wish us to repeat it's because hiding it is the same as showing it. If you hide it when it's optional, the others assume and dip (there is a very specific cadavet otherwise we will mention further below 👇)
- The point hours can mislead people into expecting something just like prestige does (and obligated f no to dodging). If they make hiding prestige a OPTION then they're (the survivor in the example) going to be dodged repeatedly as stated why above.
- "It's the currently available solution because they didn't explore any further than a YEAR ago on an A/B test." Your going to need to elaborate on this one. Are the results not good enough or something ? (Assuming this next part was the answer to our question) Are you using mmr as a way to judge skill? There's MANY flaws with that if so.
- Repeat above
- Seems to be healing to us, admittedly this is limited to us 3 so small pool, and the band-aid is at minimum stopping the bleeding (this is more fact as there is a noticeable decrease, small pool or not). At that point it would be random dodging them instead of shopping, which is what hiding prestige intended to do.
We still doubt you'll find what you're looking for, but you're polite enough that we'll lend a claw. Most of our groups think prestige as a mockery, just throwing that there as food for thought.
Now as for that specific cadavet mentioned above, someone on the forum made a post asking to show prestige in the prelobby lobby, the lobby where swfs group up (don't know who posted as I personally did see not do I wish to hunt it down). Would this be acceptable? It allows people to show off to friends or strangers they grabbed for a swf without outside content, is hidden in the actual lobby so killers and randoms don't see it and start running and screwing over matchmaking, and is still shown to everyone at the end.
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I will say and agree that pre lobby is obviously part of the equation for me, but it's not the whole thing. The fact that you 3 thinks the same of that matter prove it's going to be hard to agree on that matter. I would say 15 of my private dbd friends in the server I have been in for the past 6 months think otherwise of that decision. but I'm trying to not bring my own echo chamber into the conversation has we as a group both obviously do not pursue the same goals as you 3. My opinion on the matter remains that it should be something to be proud about and if I want to be proud about it I should be allowed to show everyone I am a proud to play X character to that point. Why is everyone so hostile to a meaningless badge as so much of you folks, to the point of mocking it? Can't we be proud of achievements and want to show everyone? I sure as hell do, I love this game. I don't want to leave because of a poor deciscion(in my perspective), I want to stay and keep playing for the very goal I have been playing this game for! So I voice and I say this with heart, I want to show that I am proud of what I have accomplished in this game and it was a very nice way to do so! But now I can't and I'm a little sad about it. Cheers to you 3.
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I have seen P100s who looped really badly and P3s who looped like Gods.
It's dumb to judge skill by prestige.
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I agree, this is why I am glad for the lack of them in lobbies.
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I get what you are saying Coffeecrashing but my question is what nefarious thing you believe BHVR might hide by not letting people see MMR. What is is you think they're doing with MMR that is so controversial? That's what I am curious about.
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It only hard to agree on the mater because you are not putting good arguments or facts against our points. You haven't really stated a solution to the problem of what would happen if hiding prestige became optional (and some of our points you outright simply seem to ignore). If you want a hope in the fog to sway us, you need facts as we're semi reasonable (long as it don't concern
object).Now before you try painting us and our friends as some villain group we will remind the class that we Rulebreakers are chaotic neutral (the other's alignments may vary but we think everyones neutral something). Not all of our mocking is hostile (as some friends do have p100 chars and they're equally mocked), but to the point: There have been countless p100s who keep trying to act like their amazing as survivor, keep trying to agrivate us into getting our attention as killer, in general act like dip sticks and care to gues what happens? They fall…often, hard, and many will even swing on hook when it happens despite the team doing good (we occasionally think its shame but thats us being petty).
My opinion on the matter remains that it should be something to be proud about and if I want to be proud about it I should be allowed to show everyone I am a proud to play X character to that point.
Can't we be proud of achievements and want to show everyone?
While your opinion is your own there are two facts that you should be aware of. First: You can have a p100 char without ever touching them (that in of itself is actually funny). Second: Your still free to be proud of it and you can still show everyone, at the end screen. Its not like its hidden at the end (we think, we admittedly don't pay attention to prestige so as of this typing we don't know if its hidden at the end screen, we'll see soon) so after the match is done everyone who wants to show off can and those who care can see then.
I don't want to leave because of a poor deciscion(in my perspective), I want to stay and keep playing for the very goal I have been playing this game for!
Thats entirely your call but with all due respect, we feel thats a pathetic reason to leave. Its not affecting balance, how the game plays, adding broken things…its just hiding a simple badge till the end so people dodge less in the beginning. If you really loved this game as much as you claim, this should not be the straw that breaks the camels back unless there was an ulterior reason that this is affecting you so much (we're looking at the accusations of you wanting to lobby shop).
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I do not have the energy nor the motivation to convince you folks of anything because clearly you say that my arguments are not good enough but this is based on your opinion and I did, multiple times I would add, address as much as you are throwing at me. Yet nothing seem the make your opinion on matter budge. I do not know how to put it in different words, accusing me of lobby shopping when I queue 4 stack 85% of the time is something wild to me. I am not here to defend myself but to address my concerns and what I cared about. Sorry if it didn't match your persona ideology or whatever you're picturing your trio as.
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We've re-read everything and still haven't seen answers to the following issues:
1: You can't make it optional because then its just the same as not hiding it.
Players dodge based on prestige, we can debate how much but this is a fact. If you make it optional players will also dodge based on that since your "hiding" something. You've said in a past post: "Again, in ANONYMOYS MODE FASHION. Which means, the pestige icon would be HIDDEN." but as far as we can tell it would only hide that players prestige no? Should someone notice they cant see that persons prestige they will base that to dodge as if it was shown anyway. Ex: "I can see everyones prestige but I cant see dwight's prestige, he must be a p100 or noob, im not going to take the chance [proceeds to bail]". Making it so if one person hides it then everyone is hidden? Not gonna work either. Ex: "Hey my prestige is hidden, someones hiding something. [bails]." This is the main point of arguing about making it optional. You can show everyone or no one at the beginning, but making it optional does not work for this reason. This is also the reason A/B/C test would not work (we FINALLY figured that one out [took embarrassingly to long]) How do you solve this problem?
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2: How can shoppers actually shop with even less info to go off of?
You've said before (or as we understood it atleast) that assumption is a root problem. We countered with how hiding prestige removes an assumption which you then go on to say that dedicated shoppers will use more ridiculous methods. We then say that it then doesn't become shopping (the definition we use is: "Intentionally looking for an easier match by repeatedly leaving and joining and looking at different lobbies of players") as its effectively random leaving. How are they able to actually shop this way as its just guessing thats more random than before? (prestige does not equal skill yes, but the shoppers put enough stock in it to think so and hence used that)
You also said this: "If killers never can see the prestiges of survivors they would NOT dodge. It would be the same as of right now on that matter." because it has now finally happened via hiding prestige. Also you "As for survivors, people already dodge anonymous modes,default skins, globe players, this won't affect anything in that regard." your correct but neglected something. Now survivors wont dodge due to a teammates prestige.
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3: Uncertainty about what you want.
From what we gather you simply want hiding prestige to be an option, consequences be damned as we see from here: "Hiding is not a problem in itself. It's hiding it for EVERYONE that is the problem for me. I don't want to hide it. It should be an OPTION." Why? Since the first problem still stands its like not having an option at all, only the illusion of it. You can still even show off all that dedication at the end screen so why is it so important to show it at the start where people can still dodge? If you say something along the lines of "accomplishment" below has a rebuttal.
You also said this previously to kit_mason: "My fun was increasing that meaningless number." We ask why it stopped being fun since you can still increase it. Ego? You said its not an ego thing with: "removing features from the game isn't about ego really, it's about people working together towards a goal and being able to monitor your friends progress without needing external means to do so." yet in that same comment we have: "We need to understand that it's a badge and letting showing off their dedication to whoever they want is a goal in itself that many PVP GAMES encourage."….that bolded part is explicitly an ego thing. Also you: "My opinion on the matter remains that it should be something to be proud about and if I want to be proud about it I should be allowed to show everyone I am a proud to play X character to that point." You wish people to be allowed to show off their prestige which is also an ego thing, specifically their egos. We all agree having some ego in a game isn't bad, but you are also contradicting yourself.
We even offered an alternative with someone else's idea, but you said: "I will say and agree that pre lobby is obviously part of the equation for me, but it's not the whole thing". By "whole thing" do you mean that you want it shown across the lobbies or "whole thing" as theres another reason? If so whats that reason? The above "must be an option regardless of anything else"? You wish to strive towards your goal of becoming p100? Nothings stopping you but you. Have it have meaning by being able to show others? Those that actually care can see at the end screen, you can still tell your friends, and the alternative offered allowed it for friends (and shanghaied swf mates) to see before the match (and remember one of your "solutions" was having killer never see prestige, so having it shown in the normal lobby would be pointless and random survivors may still dodge if teammates outside the swf can see prestige).
Lastly you say you don't want to leave from their decision. The fact that your thinking of leaving because of that decision paints your intentions in a much different light. We are giving the benefit of the doubt and not accusing you of wanting to lobby shop, but from our eyes somethings off if something like this is gonna make you go. You can still go to your goal, you can still show off to friends, you can still show off to randoms at the end…like what the hell? Maybe its us not understanding but the way it looks is defiantly not good.
These need straightened out before we can even attempt to come up with something satisfactory. What explicitly do you want.
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We may be harsh, but we are genuinely trying to help you find a middle ground you'd like. We went out of our way to line up all the problems we've had no answers to, can you solve these definitively or at least to a "good enough" standard by the masses?
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- The MMR numbers of some of the 5 players in a game, might sometimes be so far apart, that it might be considered unacceptable.
- If 1 player DCs, it might cause the entire game to be considered invalid, and the other players can’t gain or lose MMR in that game. Some people might consider that to be a “worthless game” that’s not worth playing.
- If a player DCs, they might not lose MMR, which means if a player thinks they might lose a game, they can protect their MMR by DCing.
- A 3k and 4k might be worth the same MMR, because BHVR might cause the 4th survivor to be worth 0 MMR.
- If there are generators left to be repaired, and the last survivor escapes through hatch, it’s worth 0 MMR… but if the killer closes hatch and the survivor escapes through a gate, then the killer might lose MMR and the survivor might gain MMR.
- The game might secretly predict if a survivor is trying the ragequit in a way that bypasses the DC penalties, and might do something if it believes a player is ragequitting too often.
- The game might have higher MMR numbers for players when they are in a SWF, if the game believes these players perform better when they are in a SWF.
- There might be a large penalty for the survivor that loses first, and the penalty might be so large that it might cause survivors to start hiding at the beginning of the match so they aren’t found first, if they knew about it.
And no, I’m not interested in you trying to argue on which of the above things might be true. That’s not the point. The point is there are things that would make people upset if they were true and made public, and those are possible things MMR might do, that would make players upset if they knew about it.
Because really, the whole “We don’t want to show MMR because we don’t want to cause players to worry about it” explanation isn’t valid. Many PvP games show MMR, and it’s completely fine.
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- If people knew that they were getting matched in a lobby were everyone is of equal skill, regardless of prestiges or all the reason they did wouldn't hold as much weigh to them. What I mean by this is say tomorrow matchmaking lobby shows mmr(lobby avg mmr) for everyone and the "lobby shopper" sees that he is matched with people of equal skill(everytime he is dodging the same avg mmr is shown to them), all petty assumptions made from said shopper wouldn't weigh anymore. I feel like people who dodges wants to have individuals of similar skill as theirs and will always find a way to do so if there's no metric for them to do so.
- As I understand it, you are looking at this from a killer perspective when you say "look for a easier match". If the killer can't see survivors prestiges/names/crossplay, that solves that part. They don't need to know anymore than just which survivors(being dwight etc). For survivors showing off to each other. it's fine IF point 1 is addressed in the fashion I am suggesting(with still giving the option to hide their prestige to whoever wants to).
- These points connect in all aspect and needs to be addressed together otherwise singleing out one thing I suggest can't work. Here's the certainty: I want survivors to be able to choose if they show their prestiges or not to their teammates. If point 1 is met somehow(I do not have any better idea other than displaying lobby avg). The incentive to dodge based on petty reasons becomes null.
- It was my goal and i wanted to get the feelings you get when you get when you p100 your survivor with your friends. Why can't I do that when everyone could in the past? Let me experience it. Ego or not it is for a fact removal of a feature/charm/appeal/incentive. If it is an ego thing in your eyes and you "mock" it, why is it such a big deal to let me show it?(considering point 1 is met, again) so yes, it is a bit of both but in my eyes it isn't a bad ego thing but moreso pride in what you did. Nothing of this prestige badge shenanigan defines skill nor the MMR.
I hope to have made my stance on the matter clearer to you and your friends or anyone still reading this thread
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You make good points and thank you for answering. I will go point by point to dissect this but I am not attacking them; you are under no obligation to defend these, nor is it my intent to argue with you. I just wanted to discuss this because I'm genuinely curious.
- This is probably the case, the game could be hiding this and if so maybe there is a secret adjustment. I'm not sure if that is a bad thing; we do need matchmaking to improve but I think people want quantity over quality. If this is the case, it may be the community's fault for wanting faster games over better games.
- That's problematic and I believe DCing needs harsher penalties. But I also do not think MMR should be gained or lost for anyone if the whole round is invalid; that would mean Killers unfairly win more and Survivors unfairly win less.
- See above. I think that issue would only increase if we could see MMR and that may be why the Devs don't show it - not a nefarious reason at all.
- I'm not sure that's the case, as Killer it seems I necessarily go up slower when I 3k than go on a 4k streak. Rather the game may be taking individual MMR into account and making it so someone with less MMR dying gives no MMR gain, but someone who has a large number and gives up to die gives tons of gain. My fear is if we let others see this MMR, could they not use this to cause issues for others? Maybe the inverse of a "derank squad/Killer" who try to force the other sides' MMR lower on purpose? If so BHVR may be trying to avoid that situation.
- I agree this probably happens and should be addressed.
- I don't see an issue with punishing ragequitters this way if it makes ragequitting less common for the rest of us.
- I also don't see this as that much of an issue. You have a general Killer MMR and individual ones, why wouldn't it make sense you may perform different as SoloQ than SWF and thus have different MMRs between them? It'd make more sense for balance, though it probably doesn't feel great if the game thinks you're crap at SoloQ and gives you bad teammates.
- I'm not sure where this idea comes from, or why that would ever be useful to gauge MMR. I doubt BHVR would do this.
I do get your point and do understand. I just think that this community is so volatile that even if we saw MMRs, people would find SOMETHING to complain about with them and see perceived sleights from the Devs that just aren't happening period no matter what. I don't think showing MMR would fix it.
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1: We feel that isn't the case. Sure maybe a handful will be looking for a "equal" match but as we've stated, many look for easier matches. They couldn't before find guaranteed equal matches (prestige does not equal skill after all) and they can't now. It also has nothing to do the question and issue with making prestige optional as this would be showing mmr, a different type of number with little meaning.
2: We aren't just looking at the killer prospective. Survivors do in fact dodge each other too. One survivor could be looking for a group that will carry them for example. What your suggestion for point one is is to show mmr, not prestige. If your adamant on that you should be advocating that, but people above are helpfully and occasionally indirectly explaining why we would think it's a bad idea.
3: You say teammates so why is that alternative not good enough? Because you can't show strangers? We also want to make clear that if either point 1 (yours or ours) is addressed people will still dodge on petty reasons, it wouldn't become null no matter what. We do admit that you're way, with what we are understanding is showing mmr (nothing to do with hiding prestige mind you >.>), would reduce some lobby shopping, but we would all be debating by how much and it also adds its own problems. Having the lobby average would be interesting, but not as effective as currently hiding it (if someone notices the average is higher or lower than what they want, guess whats gonna happen…), while also defeating the purpose to show others your prestige.
4[?]: You still can and your pointedly ignoring that. You also keep using the word "friends" and we got questions. What is stopping you from taking a pic, screenshot, whatever of you as a p100 and sending it to friends? What is stopping you from showing them at the end of a match you play together? What is stopping you from simply telling them? What we think you mean is strangers/everyone else. Which the end of the match, we again state, shows. Its not a big deal to show prestige, however it has cause people to dodge lobbies [fact]. To help with this the devs have hidden prestige. We again state it can not be optional feature as explained in point 1. We agree prestige doesn't equal skill, but has it stopped people from lobby shopping based off of that? (The answer is no) By hiding prestige it removes one thing people can try to base shopping off of and is actually helping the games health.
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- I feel like this is a system that would require testing. You cannot find the perfect matchmaking formula if you never try to expand on it. Everyone loves a game where you can go: Man that was a fun match and you type W killer in the egc. MMR and prestiges are not related. people that shop for a lobby do not shop to get worse teammates. if by shopping, they see that the avg mmr does not change and it remains the same. at some point or another this person will accept and stop shopping. It would require an insane person to keep shopping for a higher value for hours, hell even minutes. They will see that whatever lobby they land, they always get the same MMR and they won't care as much for prestiges as we both agreed on that prestiges does in no matter define your skill level in this game. This point is why everything needs to be connected otherwise the system fails. let players show their prestiges if they want to it will not matter. With what skill level is shown, you can SEE that skill value SEPERATELY from the rest. Chess has a very good mmr system and is the very founder of ELO. Quality of matches is directly related to MMR. The middle ground is what needs to be found for said mmr system and it is not an overnight the issue is fixed forever type of deal. I would also like to add that I feel like moderation of bad behaviours(lol) is extremely poor in this game. It wouldn't hurt anybody to get a little more of a punishing side on these behaviours(lol) that we obviously don't endorse.
- I feel like this point has been answered by point one so I will not expand on this point any further unless you need so.
- I want to have the original getting your first p100 experience, it won't be the same. I want to feel the satisfaction and sense of accomplishment to the fullest of it's original experience. I feel that many like me feels the same but fails to voice it because they do not want to deal with the mountain of people that already had that feeling given to them, I love this game. I want the whole experience. Please let me have that. isn't it only fair?
- I never said it's stops me. I just feel like this is unrelated to the in-game features, that were there before. People do not stay end-game chat most of the time. there's also fun interaction happening in the lobbies that can't happen anymore. Which sucks to remove another layer of flavor for ''speed over quality''. When I solo queue I never had this happen to me. To the point of thinking this is an issue? Hell, just the loading screen is the real speed in this equation if you ask me.
0 - I feel like this is a system that would require testing. You cannot find the perfect matchmaking formula if you never try to expand on it. Everyone loves a game where you can go: Man that was a fun match and you type W killer in the egc. MMR and prestiges are not related. people that shop for a lobby do not shop to get worse teammates. if by shopping, they see that the avg mmr does not change and it remains the same. at some point or another this person will accept and stop shopping. It would require an insane person to keep shopping for a higher value for hours, hell even minutes. They will see that whatever lobby they land, they always get the same MMR and they won't care as much for prestiges as we both agreed on that prestiges does in no matter define your skill level in this game. This point is why everything needs to be connected otherwise the system fails. let players show their prestiges if they want to it will not matter. With what skill level is shown, you can SEE that skill value SEPERATELY from the rest. Chess has a very good mmr system and is the very founder of ELO. Quality of matches is directly related to MMR. The middle ground is what needs to be found for said mmr system and it is not an overnight the issue is fixed forever type of deal. I would also like to add that I feel like moderation of bad behaviours(lol) is extremely poor in this game. It wouldn't hurt anybody to get a little more of a punishing side on these behaviours(lol) that we obviously don't endorse.
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I have already seen basekit Claudettes and Megs who want to look like noobs but are actually P100 lol
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if by shopping, they see that the avg mmr does not change and it remains the same. at some point or another this person will accept and stop shopping. It would require an insane person to keep shopping for a higher value for hours, hell even minutes.
And the damage is done to the lobbies they left. Also have you met the players of this game?
They will see that whatever lobby they land, they always get the same MMR and they won't care as much for prestiges
This point is why everything needs to be connected otherwise the system fails. let players show their prestiges if they want to it will not matter. With what skill level is shown, you can SEE that skill value SEPERATELY from the rest.
So you are advocating for showing mmr and prestige correct? This is different from the original post/idea but if this is what you want we'll play along. So aside from the problem of mmr not being a great indicator of actual skill (ex: tunneling, being left for dead on first hook, hook swinging causing a calvicade of bad for the remaining survivors, the killer 2 hooking everyone then letting them out, etc) as well as the "player" factor problems, this would allow your desire of showing prestige (people would more than likely focus on the mmr number) but we will ask that if you really want to go down that path of showing mmr and prestige then go fight for the mmr of the lobby and not individuals as that would effectively reintroduce the problem.
Quality of matches is directly related to MMR.
Subjective and for us that statement is false. We'll elaborate if you want, but that's off topic.
The middle ground is what needs to be found for said mmr system and it is not an overnight the issue is fixed forever type of deal. I would also like to add that I feel like moderation of bad behaviours(lol) is extremely poor in this game. It wouldn't hurt anybody to get a little more of a punishing side on these behaviours(lol) that we obviously don't endorse.
Also off topic...but yeaaa it's a problem. For what it's worth, it has gotten better than when we started (way less death threats)
2: Correct it has been answered.
3: ...umm yeah it kinda will be the same for the average p100 rank up. The only thing you can't do currently is go from p99 to p100 in front of randos. Actually now that we think on it it's the same because you can post it on the forums like a handful do already. Also trying to claim "fair" will not sway us as we've seen what others here have considered "fair".
4. Those that bother to care about things like prestige and perks the others brought will stay (or atleast look) at the end. This allows people to "show off" whatever. What fun interactions are now gone because of this change? As for "speed over quality" (for the solution of hiding prestige) think of it like this: They had a solution that's easy to implement, helps with the problem, doesn't break anything (or really shouldn't), and don't have a better alternative at the time (or moment). What reason would they NOT use it? As for speed over quality (matches), the mmr (as far as we're aware) pulls from where it last left off once someone leaves. Meaning the next closest might be relatively equal, but its more like 1/3 equal and 2/3 going to either be better or worse (mmr wise, actual skill varies).
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And the damage is done to the lobbies they left. Also have you met the players of this game?
I would say that it would be a one time thing after that change has been implemented, since they won't get any different result from shopping a couple of time, the player base that does shop will learn that it is pointless. Sure, on the spot the very first moments it won't be as good as it's going to be when the whole community knows about how LOBBY MMR works.
Also off topic...but yeaaa it's a problem. For what it's worth, it has gotten better than when we started (way less death threats)
When I say bad behaviour, bad behaviour doesn't explicitly means egc rudeness but everything from lobby shopping, purposefully throwing a game to the egc toxicity.
3.I can't know for sure as I have never done it myself. I wanted to wait for my friends to get to p99 of theirs and we all prestige together to 100 in a pre-lobby. I know for a fact that this very situation won't happen as how lobbies works now.
4.@alen_starkly(page one of thread) mentionned a very good example of what I meant.
there's no such thing as an easy solution at the point where they are at now regarding the mmr in my opinion. To be quite honest, i never thought that the MMR wasn't fair. but after much consideration it is clear that these things needs to be related. When I first typed this thread I did not think of it as deep as of now, which is only fair after considering the opinions of other and not only mine. Again, I want to find a middle ground where expression is not hindered and the experience of speed and quality is met on an equal spectrum.
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1: You used player base and learn together and that makes us skeptical. The snark aside, as long as its the lobby mmr and not individuals problem one is technically solved as far as we can think of relating to your goal. We'll remind it'll bring a host of other problems and we three personally DONT want this solution, but it will work enough to get to the goal.
When I say bad behaviour, bad behaviour doesn't explicitly means egc rudeness but everything from lobby shopping, purposefully throwing a game to the egc toxicity.
Well the first one is going down slowly, the second one is slowly rising, and as we said the third is falling. We call it a win from before.
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I wanted to wait for my friends to get to p99 of theirs and we all prestige together to 100 in a pre-lobby.
…So…we're going to not explode in a bile of vitriol…and calmly re-explain the alternative someone made and we proposed. The pre-lobby where you gather your friends for a swf together would be able to see prestige. You and your friends could easily do that with this option…
4: Welp they can still match each other, just can't be based on prestige. Our sympathy (and patience for that matter) hit a low after point 3…That aside as long as your able to solve the problems we pointed then thats the way you'd want to go. What we see is something we think will be worse but thats not the concern as this is your goal.
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3. I know this is an alternative, I even agreed that it was partly a solution for the matter at hand. I just had to re-specify it since it isn't an option as of right now(current patch).
I think this is the furthest we will get to agreeing on these matters. In all seriousness thank you for your input. It was nice to talk about these concern with someone that isn't on the same page and expand on it. Cheers to you and your friends!
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Speaking of lobby dodging, so many killers dodge lobbies when they see survivors have many flashlights, toolboxes or medkits. Could we please hide survivors' items from killers in the pre-game lobbies? Survivors don't know anything about the killer before the match, it's not really fair for killers to know what survivors are bringing into the game.
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It's fully intended that killers can change their loadouts based on what survivors are bringing into the game and there are no plans to change that, it's part of the design of the game.
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Killers having visibility on what tools that are brought by survivors is healthy in my opinion. Mitigating their usefullness is a valid move considering the impact they can have in a game.
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I don't trust the cosmetics, I trust how they play or I trust what they're bringing into the lobby.
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Thanks also for confirming this and nipping this question in the bud, Mandy. It's absurd that people even want to have items hidden in the lobby, like how would that be fair to Killer? They can't see your addons, and Survivors can't see who the Killer is OR their addons. That makes it fair. The Killer needs to be able to strategize because items can change the game.
I would ask we maybe standardize some items though. I think maybe toolboxes could stand a bit of a standardization, and we could do something to improve keys somehow. I think maps, Medkits, and Flashlights are all fine where they are now, though I'd love to see addons that change how flashlights work the way maps and keys have them - and I think Styptics and Syringes need a MASSIVE looking at as they can create similar issues to what FTP+BU did.
That said, can you please also state whether some strategic focusing out of players (non-toxic tunnelling), hovering or patrolling of hooked Survivors or sticking around certain gen clusters near endgame, (camping), and prolonged downs for pressure (non-toxic slugging) are intended game design, as long as they are not drawing the game out or used to grief? Because that seems to be a very common misconception in this community.
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If that is intended, they why are survivors allowed to change their loadouts at 5 seconds left in the lobby?
How are killers supposed to change their loadouts based on what survivors are bringing into the game, when the survivors are purposely making changes at 5 seconds, to prevent killers from changing their loadouts in reponse?
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A survivors lock in before killer(say 10 seconds)could give time to them to react to these quick loadout swaps as a solution to this. Given it is enough of a problem to address it.
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I feel like removing showing prestiges in lobbies was a mistake.
First, grinding to P 100 feels less rewarding now, and you can't even match with randos in lobbies anymore, because you don't know that their Yoichi is at P 100, and you could whip out your own P 100 Yoichi. A lot of fun is gone.
Second, people will keep dodging anyway. 2+ flashlights in the lobby? Dodge. At least 2 of the survivors are wearing flashly paid clothes? Dodge. You check their Steam profiles and notice they are in each others' friends lists? Dodge.
Instead of removing the ability to see Prestiges, how about you bring that back, and start penalizing lobby dodging? The real problem at the core is lobby dodging. There are many reasons for lobby dodging, but that is what ultimately messes with the MMR and matchmaking.
A killer sees 2 or more p 100 survivors and exits the lobby? Give them 5 minute penalty. They dodge another lobby? 15 minute penalty.
TL;DR Hiding prestiges just kills the fun in P 100-ing, and doesn't address the real issue - lobby dodging. Start penalizing lobby dodging, because people will dodge for many reasons.
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At least create some badge or skin or whatever for P100, so if people want to show prestige, they would have a way to do it on lobby.
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Punishing bad behaviours is a way to mitigate alot of the problems this game has. A minute for first warning that resets every 24 hrs is way too soft. Youre better off playing the game if the first punishment would be something between 5-10 mimutes. Other games does it and does alot more strictly than this. Removing features of the game because of a minority of people spam dodging just seems unfair to the ones who cared about these little nice things about the game. You queue for a game? From the moment you join the lobby people should take accountability for leaving.
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Preaching to the walls here mate
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/shrug
I will have given my best shot.
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That is completely correct.
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More and more things a veteran might own are removed, made invisible or sold to the newer players as well now (old rift charms). The only thing I still own, to show how long I have been playing, is the Y4 and Y5 anniversary Items. But sadly they were very rare to begin with. On my oldest main, I have only 20 of each left.
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Disagreed. You can still show it off postgame. All that visible prestiges did was increase lobby dodging and thus worsen the matchmaking. Ranks weren't visible when they were in the game, it was just like now, just the name.
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