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Why was the anti-camp feature not adjusted?
With the 70s hook stages, this gives more time for the anti camp to kick in. Sounds good on paper but in reality this negatively effects killers who arent camping and rewards survivors who greed gens over teammates.
70s hook stages seems like a change done with no hindsight of how it'll effect other game mechanics. Reassurance did not get a 10s nerf (its been overdue a nerf since its release xdd), anti camp indirectly buffed to effect killers who arent camping, no camaraderie adjustment, etc.
Comments
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Anti-FACEcamping.
It doesnt bother killers proxi camping much, you can keep your distance yet still have eyes on the hooked person.
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Unless you are basically rubbing your face against the survivor, the anti face camp doesn't do anything, so even with longer hook stages this changes nothing.
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Probably for the same reason that whenever they buff or nerf something there isn't always a corresponding change. They thought proxy camping was too strong and not a playstyle that made for a healthy game, so they weakened it.
Anti-face camp is such a rare trigger that I'd be surprised if it made any overall impact. If it gives time to survivors to trigger the AFC because of a killer proxy camping or continually checking the hook, good.
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BHVR: *Releases change to weaken camping
Forum killer: "Wait, why aren't you nerfing anti-camp to compensate?"
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No stop camping the hook.
And reassurance nerf are you kidding me?17 -
If its purely for anti face camp why is the range 16m and not smaller? 8m is enough distance to guarantee an unhook, whats the extra 8m doing on there?
Me thinks the range should be reduced to 8-10m.
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If the basekit break speed was buffed by 20%, and then brutal strength was left unchanged, would that be okay? Personally I think changing something and indirectly buffing 5 other things is a bad idea.
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So you just wanna spend the entire game sitting 16m away from the hook until somebody comes to unhook for your free hit and think the entire game should be altered to cater to how you play?
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Reassurance has always needed a nerf since it's release. It should only work during the first 30s of a hook stage so survivors cant greed gens and ass-insurance the survivor when the killer camps to punish the greed.
Damn Ig survivors should never have to think about anything they do tho and its them nasty meanie killers who camp that are the bad ones.
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16m away from the hook doesnt sound like im "face" camping?
Also point to where I said that, quickly I need to see where I said it !!!!!!
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I can swf, I can gen rush , I can tbag and bm, but you can't camp, sheesh!
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The amount of times I even see a survivor bring reassurance, much less get value out of it, lets just say the perk showing up in a lobby at this point.
…I wanna say I see Twins more often that I see a single survivor even run reassurance. I think I have seen twins probably twice in several weeks.
I think I see people bring fn throw pebble more than reassurance lol.
Im not saying its not a good perk, but its only a good perk in the right hands. And those hands are extremely limited in this game.2 -
EDIT: yh usage rate dont indicate strength. BHVR should still balance around good players tho.
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If the intent of these changes is to nerf camping, why would they then buff camping to compensate?
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There is 0 sense in adjusting the Anti-Camp Feature if they make a change to make camping less desireable. Let alone that the AFC did almost nothing anyway, it only works against the rare instances of facecamping.
And nerfing Reassurance is also not really something that is needed. The Perk barely gets play, because it is just not good. I think since its release (which also happened 2 years ago) I have seen it used in a meaningful way maybe 3 times. Most of the time I see Reassurance used is when the Survivor is being unhooked anyway.
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Because that wasnt the area of camping they wanted to nerf. They adjusted the AC system on its PTB to fine tune its balance. Now that 70s hook stages exist, the AC is stronger than they intended.
If they wanted killers to "chew through pallets faster" by reducing pallet break time by 20%, but forgot about brutal strength so you could guarantee easy zoning with that perk, would that be fine? This is the same situation.
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Quick my hook timer is depleting quick quick point at it!!!!!!!
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
The range is 11m and then it disables. It was 16m when tested on the ptb and they nerfed it before going live to be even more useless.
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It's funny, this is almost exactly what happened in 6.1.0.
Break speed was buffed by 10%, and brutal strength was never changed. Not that I personally feel it needed it, but it's a weird take to choose a scenario that literally happened.
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Thats because maps were then adjusted to have wider distribution of unsafe pallets (edgemap azarovs for example), making it harder to zone.
Looking at an unupdated map like swamp, zoning is absurdly easy on them maps. I would say brutal and the pallet distribution are an issue when it comes to them.
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i think it is just better to revert hook back to 60 seconds and stop designing random freebies changes for survivors. if proxy camping need a nerf, than make the anti-camp feature more aggressive.
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No, this was entirely part of the general 10% action speed increase for killer in that patch: break speed, blade wipe speed, gen kick speed.
This wasn't compensation for anything at all. Maps have largely gotten smaller and with more dead zones every time they touch one. Hell, you don't even have to worry about breaking hooks anymore it's gotten that easy.
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Because that wasnt the area of camping they wanted to nerf. They adjusted the AC system on its PTB to fine tune its balance. Now that 70s hook stages exist, the AC is stronger than they intended.
How do you know? How do you know they didn't take the anti-camp into account when they made this change?
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The thing is, adjusting the hook timer to 70s is addressing exactly the same issue that the AC does. They're already trying to make camping less effective, it makes total sense to then make the anti-camp mechanics more effective.
They could well have factored this in when deciding on 70s. They would know that increasing the hook timer has a multiplicative effect with the existence of AC, so decided that 80s or 75s would be too much, and compromised on 70s.
I personally have no issues with either of these mechanics as a killer, because I don't camp.
I play in a way in which I presume a save is going to be made, I leave the hook and go straight for my next target. The only time I'm ever back at the hook is if I've done a full lap of the map, found no one and still no one has made a rescue play. It happens far more often that you'd think. It also happens that survivors go to and stage even when I'm nowhere near the hook, leading to me being caught off guard when I hook someone for a second time and they straight up die.
Change your attitudes as killers, stop relying on camping, and ypu won't be bothered by these healthy balance changes.
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IMO they should increase the initial immunity timer and also increase the speed at which the bar fills after the immunity wears off, particularly at mid ranges. Too many of yall are too comfortable treating the AFC as "I'm allowed to do this amount of face camping" and asking for an increase in the self unhook bar capacity is reflective of that mindset.
The feature is ANTI face camp, not Rationed face camp. Increase the time before it kicks in to avoid punishing killers for reloading or placing traps, but also increase the speed the unhook bar fills at so it's even more abundantly clear that AFC bar is not supposed to be a resource that the killer manages
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Two things:
1: The AFC system doesn't activate at all unless you're right next to a hook. At that point, you're camping, and you should be hit by BOTH the longer hook timers AND the AFC system, because you're doing the thing both those changes were aimed to weaken. There'd be no point in making the AFC weaker when it already only activates in narrow circumstances that are all undesirable. Longer hook timers will have literally zero effect on the AFC system against non-camping killers.
2: Greeding gens over teammates is a risk. Having ten seconds longer to do it means you're taking that risk for ten more seconds. As a killer, you can and should be punishing that risk. I think this is going to be one of those things I'll end up pointing out a lot over the next few months…
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My understanding is that 16 meters was chosen so killers couldn’t face camp / block the basement stairs. But I think you can technically still do it.
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Thats just not true tbh. I had a game yesterday on Thompson House where I hooked someone in House basement and afterwards went to check upstairs to break the wall and gen on the upper floor and anticamp kicked in and made the survivor in the basement unhook themselves. I even asked in endgame chat if they got unhooked or the anti camp unhooked them and it was the latter.
Just checking the gen on upper floor apparently was enough for the anti camp to be sure that I am camping. Just another feature that was implemented without making adjustments to maps etc. to make sure you dont accidentally get punished for not camping.
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I don't get how this is always a topic
I've legit seen this mechanic come into play only once since it was introduced and it was more so a result of 'I'm gonna BM you and tunnel you off hook idc if you get off'
it is really only helpful in the most egregious form of camping but it has also served its purpose of deterring that egregious form of camping
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Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it meant only to stop killers from face camping??? Survivors only wanted a mechanic to stop it at the time if I remember correctly.
Post edited by LadyOwO on1 -
Because it doesn't need adjusted. I don't play a ton of survivor, but I have never once had the option to unhook myself because of the anti camp mechanic. 10 extra seconds isn't going to change anything. This is a non issue.
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Only a few Killers could properly proxy camp but the ones that could do it were obnoxious and using it to get around the AFC. This fixes that.
Stop proxy camping with Huntress Hatchets.
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don't have the energy to weigh in on this properly, but the less camping this game has, the better. It's a boring strategy for both sides.
So I'm content with another change that not only improves the solo queue experience further (might actually not be left to hit second) but also makes it more punishing for killers to camp outright as they have to commit more time to it. I understand sometimes camping is the optimal play, but it shouldn't be the killer's first go-to.
Perhaps in niche scenarios reassurance could be strong due to this change - you could dip in for a second, reassure, then leave to do a gen and the hook stage is now even longer and the killer has to spend even more time for the camping to benefit them. I don't mind this though, if the perk is reliant on the killer camping to really get any value then it's already situational and not good in every game. Can't comment on camaraderie as I never see it, though imagine it's easier to get value out of as killers are more likely to camp someone out of the game than if they're on their first hook.
I think it's fine for the anti-camp to stay the same, it really only works with face-camping and won't impact 90% of the camping scenarios if the killer is aware of it.
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I don't believe increasing the effectiveness of gens-before-friends is a good thing either.
However the right answer against that is to learn to tunnel efficiently to compensate and add pressure with more slugging.
And when tunneling and slugging will also get some artificial deterrent, well, there are other games.
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thing is with 6.1.0 they did buff breaking speed and didnt touch Brutal. STBFL also took quite a bit to get changed despite having a hit cool-down reduction in the same patch
The increase hook timer with anti face camping is fine, 99% of the time you shouldn't be stickin around the hook that long anyway.
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This is such a non issue, and anyone that plays survivor - hell, anyone that plays killer normally and without facecamping will know this as well.
Anti-facecamp is more useful as a tool for friendly killers to unhook a survivor that others left to die than a tool to counter campers at all.
People who want to win by standing still, still manage to win. It's only marginally more difficult because you have to stand a few steps away from the hook. That's about it. There's no need to give campers an equal attention cake.
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but hook timer increase literally has nothing to do with your-average-case of camping because average player can't get use of it due to lack of general game knowledge pr just simply giving up on hook instantly, while severely impacting gameplay at higher skill level.
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