gen speeds need a nerf
the past few days ive had so many games were even if im chasing multiple suvs or im ending chases early and hooking back to back gens just fly
i played a suv game today i had a toolbox with deja vu i was doing a gen with 2 people one had prove thyself and a toolbox and we did the gen in about 30 seconds (i didnt see if they had other perks)
no gen should get done in 30 seconds
im not saying im the best dbd player but ive played killer a long time and something is different gens are just popping left and right hacks maybe? i dont know
at this point im running 3-4 gen regress perks and i hate it…i want to mix and match and make fun builds but whenever i do the games over in 5 minutes
gens need to be looked at
Comments
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Try recording your matches. It would be helpful to have more than just anecdotal "it feels fast" to justify that huge of a nerf in the game.
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I think the gens themselves are not the issue, nor even the perks. What are an issue are the toolboxes. They're easily the single most powerful thing a Survivor can bring between the sabo buff and the repair speeds, and if you put the right items on them they get even stronger. It's imperative now that Devs look at toolbox speed and ask, "when perks do only up to a 10% increase of repairs, is it fair that the right toolbox can do 50% or more in one go? Do we really need that much?"
I guarantee slower toolbox speeds would reduce the need for Killers to feel as if they have to run gen hold.
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it's the 4v1 that needs help for non mobile killers, albeit baseline regression or stalling or more mobility.
I don't think nerfing items is a healthy way to go, I think making the new killer experience better is more healthy in the long term.
I do think regression stacking should be nerfed if we do have baseline regression on hooks maybe a lesser built in pain res or the like but I do feel its the general 4v1 that needs help, give killers more breathing room to build more diversly.1 -
Making regression basekit will only allow killers to run even more unfun perks like anti-chase perks, which will then cause them to get their regression up and a regression loop going even faster and more reliably. It would not be fun(well I guess killers will enjoy because it'll be easier, but it's not good for the game's health long-term unless we have a comp meta/ranked mode I guess).
At least some of the stronger toolboxes need to be brought down some, with toolboxes no longer granting extra skill checks. Weaker killers are already routinely being buffed, so over time that issue will resolve itself. Survivor-sided maps are often being nerfed or getting the haddonfield treatment, so this will also slow gens because downs will happen more often.
Basically I am saying it's already slowly happening, outside of the toolboxes changes which I think would be good.0 -
"Making regression basekit will only allow killers to run even more unfun perks like anti-chase perks, which will then cause them to get their regression up and a regression loop going even faster and more reliably. It would not be fun(well I guess killers will enjoy because it'll be easier, but it's not good for the game's health long-term unless we have a comp meta/ranked mode I guess)."
So none of this applies to the half dozen basekits survivors have gotten over the past few years? What would you say when killer say this to you?
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I can see where you're coming from, but let's do the reverse for fun.
Okay so killers get all regression basekit and super slow healing and items nerfed etc, and survivors get full anti camp anti tunnel anti slug and killers all get super nerfed in chase.
I'm pretty sure this is not a deal you'd want to take.
To answer your question directly, besides basekit endurance off of hook survivors haven't gotten any perks basekit at all. There were new features added. The situation is different.
To be less literal about it, both sides have gotten basekit changes and much of the ones survivors have gotten have been due to killer players using incredibly simple strategies that have little depth. Yes you could change old skull merchant 3 genning, but then another killer could do it extremely well and not wish to engage in normal gameplay from the start. So they made a basekit change. This change doesn't impact most games even, but I think you are comparing this to having lots of regression basekit which is odd to me.
To fully address the logic I used, survivors did not get anything they ran before made basekit and so therefore they still need to run things like anti-tunnel or anti-slug and so on to be effective against the best killer strategies. If killers got their absolute best perks basekit that would be super massive, it'd be like if survivors got DS or UB or OTR or an exhaustion perk basekit which would indeed change the game quite a lot.
This is why it hasn't happened and why BHVR is focusing on making maps weaker for survivor while buffing each killer individually. I think they could go about this better personally but I don't think making regression basekit is the solution.1 -
I do not see a single reason why Survivors can have a bunch of basekit stuff, but Killers who are low mobility can't. You do realize bloodlust is the only basekit catchup mechanic Killers have right? When was the last time you felt threatened by Bloodlust? Never, right?
Now when was the last time as Killer you had to watch out for basekit Borrowed Time, coordination, fast gen speeds, repeated clustering around the same gens, unhooking super close to you, complete denial of pressure tactics, etc?
They just do not compare.
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By half dozen, you mean… one?
Borrowed Time is the only perk survivors have gotten basekit, I genuinely don't know what else you could be referring to.
To weigh in on the wider topic, basekit slowdown is already more than good enough so killers don't need basekit regression perks. There'd also still be a huge difference between basekit regression perks and the basekit Borrowed Time, because anti-tunnel perks were (and still are, to a smaller degree) necessary to cover a gap in the game's base mechanics, which regression isn't even if you were to claim you need them in the current state of the game (which you don't).
Killers have regression basekit. It's only so-so (partially because it's not the main method of basekit slowdown killers have), but it exists. Survivors did not have anti-tunnel basekit before 6.1.0. in any form, not even a too-weak form.
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Killers have gotten a bunch of basekit stuff, were you not here for 6.1? What about hooks respawning? What about improved regression on gen kicks? Also do you realize I could do the reverse with your logic? We can't give killers basekit buffs because then Nurse and other S tiers will have them!
(I do think S tiers would be better off not existing and of course allowing for buffs that are healthy for the weaker killers)
Also for your strange question about bloodlust, I am threatened by bloodlust basically every game I play as survivor unless the killer is using their power constantly. Most loops are bloodlustable now but even if I win a mindgame I am dealing with that very potent mechanic quickly so I cannot loop anything for long. I don't really know what the point of saying this was though, do you also wanna ask how often I am affected by the window blocker?
The rest of your post reads like you are frustrated at your experience playing killer. I suggest you play some more 1v1s or watch competitive events or get coaching or ask someone to practice/improve because there are lots of killer players who are eating insanely well right now.1 -
Toolboxes need to be nerfed like med kits were. That and maybe some perks shouldn't work with a toolbox. Why do we have the animation on Potential Energy and you can hold a toolbox?
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Remove tool boxes, rework every survivor gen related perk or give survivors another mandatory objective. But PLEASE don't extend gen durations, they are by far the most boring part of the survivor gameplay to the point that I like being the one rescuing, healing, taking hits and doing chases, but gens make me fall asleep 😭
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In my opinion one of three things should be considered.
- Nerf repair speed on toolboxes a smidge. Not too much as to cripple them, but not too little. Maybe reconsider how quick gens get repaired when done with multiple people as well.
- Make base kicking gens a little stronger. We had the buff, but it honestly doesn't feel like it does anything. I'd even accept other regression perk nerfs if the base kick were better so we don't have to feel we rely on constant regression.
- Put a cap on progression/regression speeds and %'s.
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isn't there already a penalty for stacking a gen?
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There is, but it doesn't feel like it exists sometimes either.
Not saying stacking a gen should be a snails pace, I'm talking maybe 1-5% more, depending on whatever feels right without kneecapping it.
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it would only make solo q suck even more (and gens even more of a bore). They already love to stack gens that end up getting wiped with PR instead of splitting gens - a bigger penalty would not deter them; high mmr and good swfs would adapt but solo q would just continue to be solo q.
I personally don't see toolboxes often in my lobbies, usually it's medkits and flashlights. Once in a while one person brings a toolbox but it's certainly not tilting the match in our favor. I'd be curious to see usage stats in solo q for toolboxes.
most of the time, players cherry pick one match where they see x perk, x item and go 'wow, op'. 3 guys on 1 gen is already inefficient unless it's the last gen or a 3 gen w/ progress. Most players should understand gens fly in early game, that's just how it goes. Coming to forum to relay their experience where 2, 3 gens pop in the first 2 minutes is not really the issue they make it out to be. That means 1 guy is outplaying the killer hard so they can do 3 gens uninterrupted. It also means the killer is probably not that good since he didn't recognize a long time ago to drop that chase.
if killer in OP's match couldn't capitalize on 3 survivors working 1 gen then that's more of a player issue than a game issue. They exhaust all TBs to do 1 gen, ok 4 more to go. Sure, a focused (and not playing together just for fun) swf or high mmr lobby can abuse gen builds, however, that's not the majority of the player base - majority is solo q - aka the least likely group to be able to adapt to any nerfs and the ones who will feel the impact of any changes as usual.
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I'm not asking for it to be kneecapped though? It does go quickly, and you can only chase one survivor off a gen at a time. Smart survivors hop right back on the gen if the killer targets one.
It's also not going to touch gen related perks either, just slow down the overtuning of stacking toolboxes and speeds. It's also only one of the three options I could think of. Personally I think capped speeds/%'s is the better alternative for both sides.
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there is very little you can do at the start but get an early down because gens are gonna go no matter what. You can't apply enough pressure that early without a down. I wouldn't call 90 seconds 'quick', but if your 3 teammates know to split gens then 3 gens will go 'quickly' but only because they're splitting them. The gens don't 'fly' as much as the number of gens completed in a small window does.
you're right, you can only chase 1 guy off a gen unless like in the example op described where they stacked a gen which would just further highlight how that's just not a good example of gens being too fast. Killer pressures a stacked gen and now you're screwed and need to wait for him to leave the area or go start another gen at the expense of all the time wasted on the stacked gen
personally, they could nerf TBs and it's all the same for my experience. Just seems like overkill to address the very specific matches where players load up with gen builds. Even then, people will complain gens are still too fast
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In my experience, no survivor is doing the full 90 seconds without a toolbox if they can help it, a way to recharge the toolbox, deja vu, prove thyself, or any combination in between. The ones who do usually are the ones who can't finish a gen that's being pressured.
As far as pressuring a stacked gen, there's always going to be one or two others pressuring other gens while the killer tries to stop a 80-90% gen being pressured by two survivors near competent loops as well. I'd like to avoid nerfing loops in this scenario, because as you've brought up SoloQ isn't perfect and can't account for survivors using their resources, but can account for gen speeds when it comes to multistacking, but that's neither here nor there due to a number of outside issues. Which again is why I like the idea of capping progression/regression values instead of anything else.
Or as you've said, nerf TBs and go from there.
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No, I wasn't here for 6.1. I joined the game in 2022, this has always been the state of Killer to me. And no, I am not frustrated at playing Killer, not a single thing I said even remotely suggests this… but you certainly sound frustrated with Survivor since you typed paragraphs for my one paragraph. Please don't put words into my mouth and assume just because you're frustrated with your experience. :(
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I agree with these ideas but:
- The only one that would fix the problem in the short term,
- They already did? I'm not sure how much more they can do,
- I think this could also work and me more long term.
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Okay, so you don't realize that killer has in fact gotten MANY basekit buffs. Survivors gain less speed on hit, killers have faster cooldown on hit, pallets are kicked faster, and so on. Many basekit buffs have been given to killers, but just because you haven't personally seen it, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
And the rest is pretty petty to say lol but pretty much you wouldn't be saying gen speeds and coordination of a team is a problem if you could play around it like many killer players can.
Good luck in your journey!0 -
Again you assume I do not know how to play this game because I am newer to it. I have been playing for two years. I win most of my Killer Matches. I escape a good deal of my Survivor matches. I have played enough to be decent at both. Sorry I am not high MMR like you, I guess?
Your responses smack of entitlism just because you've been here for years more than I have. Please do not respond to me again, because you're right on one thing, ppmd - your response to me here was absolutely petty and absolutely unnecessary. Not to mention incredibly unwelcoming.
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It's very easy to gen rush without a toolbox. Plus, killers have aura… so I think we're pretty much even ;)
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I don't see how aura is the same as generator progression and therefore "even"… Also sure, you can genrush without a toolbox. Without perks even.
But toolboxes are the only thing that make it OVERLY easy, which is the issue. Because they stack with perks and Survivor tactics in ways that can sometimes become too strong.
Post edited by GonnaBlameTheMovies on0
