gen speeds need a nerf

I think the gens themselves are not the issue, nor even the perks. What are an issue are the toolboxes. They're easily the single most powerful thing a Survivor can bring between the sabo buff and the repair speeds, and if you put the right items on them they get even stronger. It's imperative now that Devs look at toolbox speed and ask, "when perks do only up to a 10% increase of repairs, is it fair that the right toolbox can do 50% or more in one go? Do we really need that much?"

I guarantee slower toolbox speeds would reduce the need for Killers to feel as if they have to run gen hold.

Making regression basekit will only allow killers to run even more unfun perks like anti-chase perks, which will then cause them to get their regression up and a regression loop going even faster and more reliably. It would not be fun(well I guess killers will enjoy because it'll be easier, but it's not good for the game's health long-term unless we have a comp meta/ranked mode I guess).

At least some of the stronger toolboxes need to be brought down some, with toolboxes no longer granting extra skill checks. Weaker killers are already routinely being buffed, so over time that issue will resolve itself. Survivor-sided maps are often being nerfed or getting the haddonfield treatment, so this will also slow gens because downs will happen more often.

Basically I am saying it's already slowly happening, outside of the toolboxes changes which I think would be good.

I can see where you're coming from, but let's do the reverse for fun.

Okay so killers get all regression basekit and super slow healing and items nerfed etc, and survivors get full anti camp anti tunnel anti slug and killers all get super nerfed in chase.

I'm pretty sure this is not a deal you'd want to take.

To answer your question directly, besides basekit endurance off of hook survivors haven't gotten any perks basekit at all. There were new features added. The situation is different.

To be less literal about it, both sides have gotten basekit changes and much of the ones survivors have gotten have been due to killer players using incredibly simple strategies that have little depth. Yes you could change old skull merchant 3 genning, but then another killer could do it extremely well and not wish to engage in normal gameplay from the start. So they made a basekit change. This change doesn't impact most games even, but I think you are comparing this to having lots of regression basekit which is odd to me.

To fully address the logic I used, survivors did not get anything they ran before made basekit and so therefore they still need to run things like anti-tunnel or anti-slug and so on to be effective against the best killer strategies. If killers got their absolute best perks basekit that would be super massive, it'd be like if survivors got DS or UB or OTR or an exhaustion perk basekit which would indeed change the game quite a lot.

This is why it hasn't happened and why BHVR is focusing on making maps weaker for survivor while buffing each killer individually. I think they could go about this better personally but I don't think making regression basekit is the solution.

By half dozen, you mean… one?

Borrowed Time is the only perk survivors have gotten basekit, I genuinely don't know what else you could be referring to.

To weigh in on the wider topic, basekit slowdown is already more than good enough so killers don't need basekit regression perks. There'd also still be a huge difference between basekit regression perks and the basekit Borrowed Time, because anti-tunnel perks were (and still are, to a smaller degree) necessary to cover a gap in the game's base mechanics, which regression isn't even if you were to claim you need them in the current state of the game (which you don't).

Killers have regression basekit. It's only so-so (partially because it's not the main method of basekit slowdown killers have), but it exists. Survivors did not have anti-tunnel basekit before 6.1.0. in any form, not even a too-weak form.

Toolboxes need to be nerfed like med kits were. That and maybe some perks shouldn't work with a toolbox. Why do we have the animation on Potential Energy and you can hold a toolbox?

In my opinion one of three things should be considered.

1. Nerf repair speed on toolboxes a smidge. Not too much as to cripple them, but not too little. Maybe reconsider how quick gens get repaired when done with multiple people as well.
2. Make base kicking gens a little stronger. We had the buff, but it honestly doesn't feel like it does anything. I'd even accept other regression perk nerfs if the base kick were better so we don't have to feel we rely on constant regression.
3. Put a cap on progression/regression speeds and %'s.

There is, but it doesn't feel like it exists sometimes either.

Not saying stacking a gen should be a snails pace, I'm talking maybe 1-5% more, depending on whatever feels right without kneecapping it.

I'm not asking for it to be kneecapped though? It does go quickly, and you can only chase one survivor off a gen at a time. Smart survivors hop right back on the gen if the killer targets one.

It's also not going to touch gen related perks either, just slow down the overtuning of stacking toolboxes and speeds. It's also only one of the three options I could think of. Personally I think capped speeds/%'s is the better alternative for both sides.

In my experience, no survivor is doing the full 90 seconds without a toolbox if they can help it, a way to recharge the toolbox, deja vu, prove thyself, or any combination in between. The ones who do usually are the ones who can't finish a gen that's being pressured.

As far as pressuring a stacked gen, there's always going to be one or two others pressuring other gens while the killer tries to stop a 80-90% gen being pressured by two survivors near competent loops as well. I'd like to avoid nerfing loops in this scenario, because as you've brought up SoloQ isn't perfect and can't account for survivors using their resources, but can account for gen speeds when it comes to multistacking, but that's neither here nor there due to a number of outside issues. Which again is why I like the idea of capping progression/regression values instead of anything else.

Or as you've said, nerf TBs and go from there.

I agree with these ideas but:

1. The only one that would fix the problem in the short term,
2. They already did? I'm not sure how much more they can do,
3. I think this could also work and me more long term.

Again you assume I do not know how to play this game because I am newer to it. I have been playing for two years. I win most of my Killer Matches. I escape a good deal of my Survivor matches. I have played enough to be decent at both. Sorry I am not high MMR like you, I guess?

Your responses smack of entitlism just because you've been here for years more than I have. Please do not respond to me again, because you're right on one thing, ppmd - your response to me here was absolutely petty and absolutely unnecessary. Not to mention incredibly unwelcoming.

I don't see how aura is the same as generator progression and therefore "even"… Also sure, you can genrush without a toolbox. Without perks even.

But toolboxes are the only thing that make it OVERLY easy, which is the issue. Because they stack with perks and Survivor tactics in ways that can sometimes become too strong.