If survivors don't progress the gens or any other objective for a couple of minute ...
there should be a killer instinct giving their general direction.
I'm kind of fed up of the games where the last two survivors hide on corners of the map dropping and picking up their item in a loop to avoid the crows.
That several minutes wasted every time, first looking around the gens, then in the basement, in the lockers and finally on the border of the map.
And sometimes they hide better.
This is way easier to do than a four slug and it's becoming a bit too common.
Comments
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inb4 someone chimes in saying "oh so you want every 2v1 to turn into a 4k?" or something like that.
But yeah, the kinds of hostage situations that can spring up because you can bypass crows like this is extremely lame. There should be a second, longer crow timer that only goes away when you heal a survivor or touch a gen.
The whole 2v1 dynamic needs improvement, but this drags on games even longer than slugging for the 4k does (which, for the record, I also hate that in the cases where the killer doesn't already know where the other person is, that also drags out the game WAY too long).
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I'm pretty sure this is bannable as taking the game hostage, not fully sure though so don't take my word for it, if it is though you could capture a video or something and report.
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You should not be able to bypass crows by any other way than through getting in a chase or doing a generator. Period. End of. I don't like being held hostage like this and I don't like when I am trying to go for hatch, being held hostage by the other Survivor because they won't come out.
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It's boring for everyone. I guarantee the survivors don't want to be in that game anymore either. But there's zero reason for them to try and progress the objectives in a 2v1 or even a 3v1 in many cases. The only path survivors have to a personal victory or draw is to wait until someone else dies. Like...I get that not participating is against the rules. So is intentionally losing, which is what a survivor is doing if they try to work a gen in a 2v1. This is not a player issue. It's a design issue.
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it's weird how BHVR can be so good at listening to some feedback but completelly ignores things like this. Crows are losing collision for body blocking needs to happen. What you said needs to happen aswell. Map offerings need to change. Things like this just go completelly ignored for some reason .
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for once, I agree with the design issue. i imagine the reason why they have not changed anything about this is due to the free 4k argument that @ReverseVelocity talks about but they also don't want to reward survivor for losing where killer get punished for playing well aka old hatch mechanic. So they just left the end game where neither side has fun. the survivor is supposedly going get reported which makes no sense since they're not breaking any rules and Killer is somehow suppose to search survivors for up to 60 minutes until server closes down if the survivor are persist enough to hide for that long. poor design that has been ignored for too long.
Telling killer to bring "Whispers" as a perk just for this end game is like telling survivors to bring anti-3 gen perks vs old skull merchant just in case you get into stalemate for 60 minutes of gen-kicking. not a good solution.
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What they should do is make it so when there are only 2 survivors left, they have a huge bonus to gen repair speed so it seems plausible to finish gens. That's why they don't even try. What's the point? There is absolutely no way to finish a gen with 2 players when it takes so long to finish one. Since it is futile to even try then the survivors best hope is that the killer finds the other survivor first so you might get hatch. Survivors should get 50% bonus when 2 survivors are left and 100% when alone. Odds are as killer you will still find and kill at least one of them anyway and it won't take so long searching the whole map.
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You want to fix this? Instead of punishing survivors further, BHVR should actually make a 2v1 winnable. The moment it gets to 2v1, it's the survivor's loss. The only thing you can do is hope the other survivor is caught first and that the hatch spawns near you.
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The matches should have a time limit and if not completed in time all survivors should be killed by the Entity automatically. Problem solved, exactly the same decision that was made when Endgame Collapse was introduced to stop them from taking hostage the match.
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Doesn't exactly solve the problem. It's the same reason we don't have a shorter bleedout timer for slugs. If the timer is short enough to be viable, it'll just lead to more of that tactic, not less. A 20-30 minute auto-win condition would immediately cause the Fun Police players to start playing stall tactics every game for the match timer 4k. You would see a ton of Legions with mending add ons playing Midwich or Gideon offerings.
It's more an issue of power scaling as it relates to objectives. Survivors have to complete the same amount of time on objective while being exponentially weaker as each player is eliminated. And really, they have to complete more time on objective after each elimination because they have one less player to work on objectives. Chases have to go longer to achieve the same value in a 3v1, but you naturally have fewer resources as a match progresses.
It's one thing VHS actually got right in my opinion. 1 teen could still win a match. Games were never over.
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I'm not blaming them specifically.
If one hides, the courageous one that moves is as good as dead. I don't feel good killing the one that I feel deserves to get the hatch.
That's why I ask for a technical solution to solve the issue.
I've also seen that kind of "gameplay" from one survivor when the 3 others are still in game. (That was disgusting. I made a point killing him and letting the 3 others leave.)
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I play 50-50 both sides and I agree with this, at least encourage survivors to touch gens in a 2v1 situation. Be it faster repair speed, movement/haste, faster exit gate opening or something to make survivors feel like they have a chance, instead of just hiding until either side is bored or someone is found.
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Wish they'd do this for the exit gates too, spend too long inside or close proximity to the exit gate w/o leaving (or performing an action like healing) for a set amount of time a blood warden effect activates and if the killer isn't there to knock you down the entity will just straight out kill you.
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I gotcha. Didn't mean to imply that you were. I was speaking more in general.
They could get creative in how they address it. Maybe something like: if a survivor is eliminated with 3+ gens remaining, have some sort of payback mechanic where all gen charges are reduced by 20. They'd still be weaker than a 4v1, but have a chance, and it would make a quick tunnel out slightly less appealing.
In a 2v1, there could be a portal mechanic where one survivor has to channel a portal and the other survivor has to maintain a chase for something like 90 seconds-2 minutes to spawn it. Long enough to be difficult, but a feasible clutch draw condition.
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Just make crows spawn on survivors when they havent done a goal relevant action in 60-80 seconds.
Identity V already does so iirc.
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hasn’t really felt like a problem until the last year or 2. Players didn’t hide and rat this good 5-6 years ago. Not even 3 years.
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"design issue" being the existence of hatch, alone. personal victory can't be an option for a member of a team.
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Hatch or not, there has to be a compelling reason for the survivors to try and progress objectives in a 2v1. There currently isn't one. The game has a big issue with 15 minute trial results essentially being locked in within the first 5 minutes.
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Everyone wants a chance to escape. Considering how many times I've had a killer down the other survivor and start searching for me instead of getting the kill and having a chance to get out. I don't think you understand how annoying that is for survivors. If you're going to complain about how annoying it is to hold the game hostage trying to get out, it's just as bad that people will down a survivor and force them to bleed out because they couldn't stand the idea of only getting a 3 k.
That balance is on both sides. I shouldn't be forced to sit there and wait to bleed out so you can get your kills. It's obnoxious and has made me want to rage quit more than anything else. Sure, it's a "legitimate strategy" but it's mind numbing and excessively annoying.
And as a person who does gen jockey every game, I put in the effort. And getting downed and left to bleed out by a killer being greedy is getting old. Just get the sacrifice and find the hatch. Your point is only good/fair if killers stop forcing the bleed out. You don't want them to do nothing but hide while you run in circles, and they dont want to be downed and left to die for your ego.
II'm so tired of seeing this mindset with no thought on why they do it. If they shortened bleed out for a survivor at just 2 left then it wouldn't be such a crap take. But if they ever did update that you want, the games gonna have less survivors. This isn't an issue of get good, it's an issue of don't be a dick. If it's 2 survivors and 3 gens to go, they know better. There's no way 2 survivors get 3 gens done. Or even 2.
So seriously. Try playing a survivor long enough to get put in that shituation. You won't be any better than the people you're complaining about. You can say you are/would be. But there's a reason you know it's an issue that the player base won't fix. And if the devs try to force the issue there will be less survivors. Otherwise, be a better killer who actually sacrifices the 3rd survivor. Because if you won't do that then you're being hypocritical.
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i wouldnt mind this change since this entire thing is the reason why distortion is getting nerfed
what i dislike is that killers still dont get punished for pratically ignoring the hatch and slugging for the 4k
intentionally wasting time when they already won
(slugging the one survivor just to get the last survivor kill)
yes there are perks to maybe counter them but at most it delays it, nobody is going to run no mither or have the skills/experince to run the killer for god knows how many gens left or 4 mintues (or less) for the bleedout
which even for me,
just makes me wanna hide the rest of the match until the other survivor is found and killed
yes its possible to still win or get hatch,
is it realistic and can everybody do it?, no
should every new person be subjected to this?, N O
IS IT FUN?, N O (for both sides it isnt)
most likely the devs will just add a "bleed out faster" button for this situation or never adress this,
rather then punishing the killer for delaying the game and letting rng decide for the last kill
(and please dont input very unrealistic situations that have nothing to do with the topic like :
"the survivor is running rat build : sole survivor, left behind, distortion, calm spirit, they dont deserve to get the hatch"
or
"the killer is running a slugging build : knockout, sloppy, cloudrophobic, nurses calling, they dont deserve to get the kill"
which is more of a perk issue then an issue relating to the topic)0 -
But in a way it's already there, the lobby closes automatically if the game is extended for an hour. It should simply be adjusted to a more reasonable time, since no real match last that long, and give it a more visual ending for everyone. If there was such a supposed problem with Legion or any other killer it should be a reality by now.
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But that still doesn't address the core issue at hand: what is the reason for survivors in a 3v1 (in some cases) or 2v1 to keep working on gens? You cannot get them done. The gens will never get done in a 2v1 at 2 or 3 gens remaining. I have literally never seen it in 5000 hrs over 6 years. It would be ludicrous to suddenly end the game once 2 players from a team are eliminated, but that's essentially what happens.
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Stealth should always be an option, if I am within TR of the Killer (or 16-24m if undetectable), I am at risk. They can find someone if they bring perks other than 4 slowdown.
The real problem is too many Killers bleeding out for the 4K. People are far more willing to pump gens when the Killer is in chase, but if the 3rd is being bledout, they will rat. You can't blame the Survivor for taking the only reasonable option when the 3rd is effectively dead.
It would be fine if they added a mechanic for Killer to reset all the gens to 0%, but only 1 gen pop powers the exit gates. Once this is done, Survivors who haven't been in chase/touched a gen are Killer Instinct revealed on a timer. Something like 30s, paused in TR, Chase resets to 30s, Gens recover the timer like Distortion/Stakeout stacks. Once a Survivor is at 0s, reveal for 2s every 5s. That way Survivors have a reason to actually work gens (instead of popping 4 in a 2v1), and Killer can find people refusing to play the game. Maybe some edge cases might need to be considered, like completing a totem cleanse resets the timer (not starting, but actually breaking it, and also not Booning the totem), to account for a Devour Hope/NOED.
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They stop working on gens because they are fighting for the hatch, not because it is impossible. The situation would not change even with a comeback system where the gens are repaired faster. The killer will find someone on a gen during his patrol and eventually he will be knocked down. For that reason, everyone will choose to hide because it is more optimal to wait for their mates to die.
However, a time limit for the match will force the survivors to star moving or accept that none of them are escaping. Play as stealthy as you want, but the clock is ticking.
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Allow some implementations for allowing 2v1’s allowing some way for both to escape, currently being found at all is a deathwish
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Unless you're at like 1 gen left, it shouldn't really be possible for both players to escape in a 2v1 unless the killer is bad. The killer has basically already won at that point.
However, it should go to hatch quicker. Slugging for the 4k excessively or hiding excessively are both extremely lame.
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This whole thing is why I just… never bother trying to find the last guy unless they a) are caught when I go looking for hatch, b) I find Hatch first (sometimes not even then), c) they really are that toxic and deserve the bleedout (very rare).
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The "excessively" is key here. Hiding a bit or slugging a bit is not a problem. But wasting several minutes on it is.
In both cases, some notification (I proposed killer instinct as it's not as accurate as an aura and is less annoying than an explosion) could solve both.
I believe I've seen it happen on a recent stream from a relatively well known (mostly survivor) streamer. But the killer was way less experienced than the aforementioned survivor so his last teammate had ample time to do gens.
Otherwise, at equal strength, the demise of the last survivors is a fact : the killer can essentially spend all the time he wants to get his down.
Then again, if half the team is dead and there are 2 or 3 gens left, the killer has essentially won already. It's a simple formality and, if the game turns into hide-and-seek, a waste of time.
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I play both sides Killer and survivors but the survivor side of me is annoyed at killers who hold up the game by slugging for the 4k. I think this is somethng killers have atarted to do in general and it is very common place. If this happens i generally will hide because your intentionally trying to waste my time instead of hooking me.
I dont intentionally hide once it's a 2 v 1 personally bit I know alot of survivors become useless when it's just 2 which is highly irritating for me as well cause if the killer isn't finding you and there are w of you. You can still have a chance of escaping yeah it's not great but still.
So summary we killers and survivors need to be mindful of peoples time cause he'll I get bored being plugged ir also trying to find survivors that are just not doing anything.
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Finally someone trying to approach this from both sides on the forums.
"It's been 87 years…"
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