I see many complain about survivor, exodus, the usual stuff ...
Yet when I try to play as survivor I give up, still in the queue, after a few minutes (and a connection bonus of 75%)
My killer queues are instant. I've tried many of them: my main as some I only played for the first time today.
There is so much of a survivor exodus I can't get a slot.
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Its always the same. I think the only time we really saw something like this happening was during the pre-6.1 era, when killer was at their lowest and survivors were at their strongest in modern DBD (there were this weird insta-moris and insta-gen-repair add-on ins old DBD, coupled with some infinites, but no one knew how to loop back then, so I wouldn't count that).
During that time we had really longer and longer survivor queues, because Killer felt like a constant uphill battle, while you worked through layers upon layers of safety nets, but it was never as bad as some of the doom & gloom crowd made it sound.
Since then, the game stayed pretty popular, but what has changed is that both roles were forced to adept to the different meta changes by trimming the fat and getting more and more efficient. Now survivors will in general split up and pressure gens, while killers feel like they need to tunnel and turn the game into a 3v1 asap, or they will lose.
And this learned efficiency wont ever be unlearned by the community and general population, the only change will come from basegame changes via BHVR, and no one knows if this is even possible with the way the current engine works. During my most fun period of DBD (around 2021) I would chase a survivor, eventually hook them, while one gen popped, then I would get into a second chase hooked them and a second gen popped, and by that time the game area had shrunk so that the game heated up and pallets were used, so that chases became shorter, while gen after gen got done. Today you don't get this kind of games anymore, survivors nearly univerally split up and pressure multiple gens, while killers concentrate on two survivors and maybe even tunnel and most people lament this fact, but are of course unable to play any other way, because the current meta and learned behaviour of both sides forces them into pure efficiency mode.
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It certainly feels like there are less people playing survivor right now (in the event my survivor queue is taking 3 minutes and so does killer, technically, before the lobby fills up). I don’t think it’s an exodus but I do believe that there aren’t as many people queueing for survivor as there were 2-4 years ago.
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This shift in playstyle was bound to happen, but it’s really not the end of the world. BHVR just needs to roll out a better matchmaking system that pairs up players who actually try with others doing the same. Solo Q isn’t bad when you’ve got a team that knows what they’re doing and doesn’t throw in the towel at the first little inconvenience.
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THIS. Solo Queue is very bearable with people who know what they are doing…it is the terrible teammates that you are paired with that ruin the game and not the killer they face most of the time at least.
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You are both right. I never gave it much thought, but most of my bad survivor matches had a direct link to bad teammates - or antimates, as we call them.
This is especially noticable in a duo-SWF, where you can always count on your buddy to have your back, but the other two are absolute coin tosses so often turn up blank.
I talked about this in some other thread, but I had a recent game where Corrupt Intervention blocked all the main hall gens in RPD and me and my mate got chased all over the east side and tried to pressure gens there, while the killer was around and pingponging between us, while the other two survivors took their merry time to chill out next to a blocked gen, either till the 2min were up or one of us went down.
And when we both got eventually hooked, they took their merry time to peel away from their respective gens, leading to a cosy 4K at 4 gens.
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I don’t think it’s an exodus but I do believe that there aren’t as many people queueing for survivor as there were 2-4 years ago.
The original post is being sarcastic. A long queue means there are too many players. A short queue means there aren't enough players. If the survivor queue is so long that drsoontm gives up and plays killer instead, there isn't an exodus of survivors (at least in drsoontm's MMR/region).
most of my bad survivor matches had a direct link to bad teammates
I have been championing this sentiment for so long. My worst matches are due to teammates. MMR and the way this game rewards survivors in general have culminated in horrible experiences in solo queue.
It's understood that when killers play to win they're trying to kill me. When survivors play to win by trying to kill me, the game becomes miserable. I wish DbD rewarded better MMR and more Bloodpoints for survivors participating instead of survivors escaping. The emphasis on escape causes a lot of harm.
Post edited by TragicSolitude on7 -
Yeah, absolutely. Awful decision making of teammates turned so many easy winnable matches into horrible lose. Even in 3 man SWF 1 survivor throwing the match can cost you a game, even if all 3 of you are doing everything right.
Had a match against Legion, where we with friend ran in different direction as soon as L was in Frenzy. Guess what random did? Yeah, mended himself in his TR instantly. He had 1500 hours btw. Guess who had a free down thanks to this buddy? Yeah. That's why "survivors are not team" is statement which can be said only by a person who doesn't understand this game even on beginner level.
Had a very tight game on Dredge, they had 3 gens done, I had 5 hooks (at least 1 stage on everyone). 2 people on a hook, I started a chase with 3rd one. When I downed 3rd person (it was average 30-40 seconds chase), was about to pick up her, and I see gen poped in another side of the map, where were no hooked survivors. Then I see Sable (yeah, such a surprise) run into me and gave up. So instead of unhook teammates, she just sitted on a gen in another part of the map for almost a minute. 4 people (me and 3 survivors) tried they best to win a match just to see how one Sable decided to delete they effort in 60 seconds. It could be a solid draw, maybe even 3 man out, if I would make some mistakes, but nah.
And then people like these come here and ask about 60% kill rate. I wonder how it's not 80% with majority of survivors playing like this.7 -
The issue with attempting to use ancedotes as evidence is that there will be someone with the exact opposite experience. I've seen two people claim Survivor takes a long time for queues and that's exactly opposite of my experience. Just slightly under two months ago I linked to over 100 recent survivor games (I'll relink to the original post if you want to look at queue times) and not a single queue was long. In contrast, my Killer queues take longer but I wouldn't describe them the majority of them as long either.
I don't feel like referring to queue times as ancedotes proves or disproves anything. Subjectively, I can say I feel solo Survivor is at its least enjoyable point in three years but objectively using queue times proves nothing in and of itself.
Post edited by TheSubstitute on5 -
thats cuz the event is ass for survivor, I really dislike being downed from range by the haunt ghost (they really should of made it deep wounds), smoke bombs are kinda fun but dont help much
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That's absolute truth.
I almost never have a problem with the killer I'm versing. My random teammates are almost always what's wrong.
Even when I manage to drag one of two from an old team with me, the randoms will almost always be the 5th killer perk.
It's also pretty evident when I play killer. The ones playing well and together vs the dead weight who are killing their team.
I'm not even counting the ones who give up or take an early exit on first hook.
And there is something new that I've noticed (as killer) during this event: survivors hiding all game in the void while the others are trying to play a 3vs1. It's pretty obvious given the icon next to their name.
It's like if the MMR was grouping the absolute worst players to try to give them a chance to have a win without caring one bit for the normal survivors they'll drag down with them.
You got it right.
I guess we all have horror stories about such teammates.
If I'm the killer, I make sure these don't live. Thanks to the anti-face-camp mechanic, I can even save the hooked ones now. (By sticking to the hook and letting them go.)
The MMR should separate players who give up or sabotage from the ones who fight to the end.
When you read the forum, you can sometimes guess who's who, when they don't straight up boast about giving up.
BHVR should make it clear it's a team game for survivors and that the win is 3 or more people out, whoever gets out.
Someone should even be more rewarded for a hook exchange that leads to a save than saving oneself.
(And some changes should probably be made for killers wins too but that's a different subject.)
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I know all about anecdotal evidence.
I'm an average survivor. I don't stand on any of the extremes. (> 3.5k hours player who plays casually)
People who play during the day, say early afternoon, will get a different experience and it makes perfect sense.
I've got a job. I play during the evening. That's when a majority of players are available (not just children out of school and the unemployed). If there really was an exodus, that time-frame would be affected. It's not.
Another hint is that the DBD player base on steam is relatively stable. It's not the whole the player base but it's representative.
There again, if there was a survivor exodus stable numbers would mean survivors have been replaced by killers an killer queues would be long (e.g. 2vs8). We can plainly see it's not the case, ergo, no exodus.
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The ghost is easier to dodge than a hatchet and hatchets are pretty easy to dodge. Besides there is a long delay between two and then the killer has to reload.
IMHO smoke bombs help a lot, unless the survivor has no plan, runs back to the killer or stands in there without moving.
(and in case you have missed the point: there is no lack of survivors playing the event)
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It appears a lot of players agree. The single biggest problem is the bad teammates.
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It's like if the MMR was grouping the absolute worst players to try to give them a chance to have a win without caring one bit for the normal survivors they'll drag down with them.
I sometimes worry this is what's happening. It certainly feels like it some days.
The MMR should separate players who give up or sabotage from the ones who fight to the end.
Absolutely.
I wish the queue system were smarter. Put like playstyle with like. The ones who are team players put with other team players. Lone wolves put with lone wolves. And trolls put with trolls. Having everyone grouped into one queue doesn't make the game unpredictable or fun; it's misery roulette.
BHVR should make it clear it's a team game for survivors and that the win is 3 or more people out, whoever gets out.
Someone should even be more rewarded for a hook exchange that leads to a save than saving oneself.
I did a whole long post elsewhere that went into how the game punishes altruism. Die doing something heroic, you lose out on the escape points and your MMR goes down and the game only says "SACRIFICED" like you didn't just selflessly rescue your teammate. Escape being so heavily rewarded means dying is hugely punished, which means risk (especially risk that benefits someone else and not yourself) is often considered not worth it.
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I really wish BHVR would think the same.
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I'm not saying there is a massive exodus. I'm saying ancedotes and queue times don't prove there is one way or another without more evidence to back it up. From my queues it would appear there has been a decline in Survivor players and an increase in Killer players. However, there are other factors such as BHVR grouping by MMR, regional differences, etc. The only variable I could control for is hours and I generally play during peak times. As such, I don't extrapolate my experience to other people.
So, you've said survivor queues take minutes at times for you (which I'm not disputing) but none of my queues do so and looking at the queue times in my most recent games that I taped doesn't show a substantial queue either in any of 100 games at peak hours or non-peak hours. My Killer queues have increased a bit but there were only a few I would classify as long.
That's why I'm saying queue times and ancedotes don't prove there is an exodus or not by themselves. I also said that subjectively people can say that solo queue survivor is at its least enjoyable point because that's a more salient point to the actual state of DbD and talking about queue times just obfuscates the issue discussions about queue times hint at; is there an issue with how fun playing one side is? Based on my experience (which is the only one I can speak to of course) there definitely is and talking about un-provable queue times just seems like derailing the main issue which is solo queue survivor needs significant help.
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