The Future of DBD
What is this post about?
Hello everyone!
This post is about creating an alternative state of the game in which many of the issues of the past have been addressed. We will take a look at what would be solved in this state of the game and what new issues would arrive and how to tackle those as well!
For everyone who loves to imagine alternative states of the game; you came to the right address!
Timeline
This is the TL;DR/Table of contents, showing what you can expect;
Step 1: Solving Death-Efficiency
Step 2: Promoting Self-Sufficiency
Step 3: Solving the State of Stealth
Step 4: Repurposing the Hatch
Step 1: Solving Death-Efficiency
For those new to the topic:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/34870/solution-to-the-death-efficiency-problem-solving-the-games-biggest-issue/p1
By solving Death-Efficiency, we solve the previous effect where the death of a survivor leads to the death of all, making the late-game malfunction. A band-aid solution called the hatch was invoked to prevent survivors from losing hope, because after all; Nobody likes to lose before they are dead. And on the same principle we will build, but this time, we move back in time before the hatch was introduced and take the game into a different and better direction.
The solution
| 4 Survivors Alive | 3 Survivors Alive | 2 Survivors Alive | 1 Survivor Alive | |
| Repair Speed | 100% | 133% | 200% | 400% |
| Regression Speed | 100% | 50% | 25% | 12.5% |
| Scratchmark Disappearance Time | 10 Seconds | 9 Seconds | 8 Seconds | 7 Seconds |
Repair Speed
The repair speed at this rate perfectly compensates to match the maximum efficiency of a 4 man team. Do realise that if you presume 1 to be in a chase:
∇ At 4 alive = 3 x 100% = 300%
∇ At 3 alive = 2 x 133% = 266%
∇ At 2 alive = 1 x 200% = 200%
∇ At 1 alive = 0 x 400% = 0%
This shows you that stealth becomes more prevalent as you reach later states of the game.
Regression Speed
As numbers drop, the time needed to be careful increases. For a killer to be able to fully regress a generator they'll need:
∇ At 4 alive = 320 seconds = 5 minutes and 20 seconds.
∇ At 3 alive = 640 seconds = 10 minutes and 40 seconds.
∇ At 2 alive = 1280 seconds = 21 minutes and 20 seconds.
∇ At 1 alive = 2560 seconds = 42 minutes and 40 seconds.
42 minutes to regress a generators seems like a lot? Now realise that when there is 1 survivor, there will more likely be multiple generators regressing instead of just 1. Especially if the survivor has to keep switching in between generators.
Even though the time it takes for a generator to regress, to total regressing generators will likely exceed the amount normally seen at 4 alive.
Scratchmark Dissapearance Time
This is less necessary, but it offers late-game survivors a slightly bigger chance to escape. As you've seen in the Repair Speed example, not being in stealth heavily hurts your team, regardless of the repair speed compensation.
Escaping chases simply becomes slightly more prevalent in the late-game and with that comes a slightly better chance to escape.
Do you have a concern with this? We'll address that! But first here are some base-variable changes:
| Old Base Value | New Base Value | |
| Generator Repair Time | 80 seconds | 100 seconds |
Generator Repair Time
With the new generator repair time, 4 man escapes become harder to pull off, thus nerfing the most problematic stages of the game, but allows survivors to still progress the game with functional efficiency upon the death of survivors.
With this:
∇ Toolboxes and other Generator repair-speed items are no longer as big of a problem.
∇ Making a mistake in the early game is less frustrating and punishing for both sides. The importance of their actions are valuable throughout the game.
∇ 4 man escapes become more of an achievement, rather than feeling more similar to 3 man escapes.
Step 2: Promoting Self-Sufficiency
Now we have solved Death-Efficiency, we've caused or worsened certain problems that now need addressing. Since we like thinking ahead, why not pre-emptively solve a problem before it can ever occur? (:
Anti-Selfsufficient Mechanics
Since @Incarnate already pointed it out perfectly in a comment on The Death-Efficiency Issue Post, I'll let him do the wording:
There are more things that make it worse, which is when every victim/survivor relies on the action of another victim/survivor, especially when others are not doing the required action for whatever reason, even being unable. To best analyze this it's best to leave perks and equipment out of the equation. I will list a few of those actions below:
Getting off the hook
Not being able to save yourself and being reliant on someone else to come save you also ties into the death-efficiency problem, especially when there when the victim count is lower. Personally I think that the current RNG mechanic to attempt to get off the hook without help, is bad, and would be a lot better if it were based on skill rather than RNG.
Recovering from dying state
This also contributes to the downward spiral of the death-efficiency and it's not very fun, not even for the killer, and this also promotes slugging, as was mention in the OP, namely that which is strategically the most efficient for the killer isn't going to be fun for the killer. I think this is something that should've been changed a long time ago. True you can run certain perks to offset this, but personally I think that the victims should be able to actually recover on their own WITHOUT the use of any perks, which I think would make the game more fun.
Healing
By default you cannot heal yourself and requires the help of someone one else, but you can run self-care or use a medkit (with enough charges), but since we're looking at this without these, it makes the death efficiency a lot worse. So assuming both don't have anything that will allow themselves to heal, means that as soon as they're seperated they're effectively unable to even remotely recover from the situation. So for instance when there are two left and one of those two is suddenly in a chase, then they're seperated. Where if there suddenly is one left, that one will be unable to do anything to recover.
So the holy trinity: Healing, Unhooking and Recovering from the dying state. These are the 3 things that need to be addressed.
Recovering from the dying state
This is the most prevalent issue, so we will start with that;
There is a way through which killers can circumvent our Increased Efficiency Mechanic (referred to as Memoir Mechanic), through slugging.
Slugging would allow killers to enjoy the +20 seconds of generator time while never letting the survivors become beneficiaries of the Memoir mechanic.
Previously, killers needed to slug as the normal hooking route was not quickly enough and did not allow for the necessary momentum needed for the otherwise imbalanced game. Slugging as being both unappealing gameplay for survivors and an unfair circumvention of the Memoir mechanic will have to be addressed.
Solution: Survivors can fully recover from the dying state, only allowing temporary slugging and gaining of momentum.
Perks related to slugging, such as No Mither and Unbreakable will be reworked according the Dev's/Communities ideas.
Self Healing:
All players will be able to fully heal themselves and have Self-Care built in.
Self-care will also be reworked according to the Dev's/Communities ideas.
With this, we have also solved awkwardnesses with med-kids that only heal you halfway and possible other solutions such as the unfair interaction with the older version of borrowed time.
Self unhooking
This is the most difficult to address part in the trinity of self-sufficiency.
Whether or how this should be solved is unclear.
I'd suggest to leave this open for community debate.
Although let me slide in 1 weird suggestion:
At 2 people alive, the not-hooked survivor can go to a random hook and pull the hook. This will cause the entity to wrap up the hooked survivor into the entities matter and teleport him/her to the hook that was being pulled.
Make of that what you wish.
Step 3: Solving The State Of Stealth
The State of Stealth is the state in which every survivor is hidden. Any progress achieved in this state comes at no cost of the survivors and they can achieve infinite progression when maintaining this state.
Of course, it's less likely for the State-Of-Stealth to be achieved when 4 people are alive, unless we're dealing with a highly coordinated SWF team.
The State-Of-Stealth is most often achieved when there are only 2 or 1 survivor(s) alive.
A boring killer experience
So why is the State-Of-Stealth a problem, or how has it become more prevalent as a result of us solving Death-Efficiency?
The problem is actually as old as time: "Keeping the game hostage" is how we used to call it. Indirectly through the solution we'll discuss, we will simultaneously solve keeping the game hostage, by the survivor side.
There is a difference between survivors keeping the game hostage and the State of Stealth however. Keeping the game hostage implies bad intent, where as the Stage of Stealth refers to the strategy of being collectively hidden and does not exclude progression, but becomes problematic because of a certain phenomenon:
The need for stimuli
Humans need stimuli, either positive or negative. Both supersede having no stimuli at all in their desirability.
And this is the problem...
A survivor hiding from a killer in a scenario in which their hiddenness is crucial is an intense experience (stimuli), where as for the killer walking through an empty environment or even unknowingly walking past a hidden survivor offers them no stimuli at all.
That is what needs solving.
The solution
We need a system in place that provides the killer a stimuli ever so now and then, to keep the hide and seek game in it's worst possible form still interesting.
We will do so by adding to the new umbrella term Bloodlust, which will now not only increase speed in chases, but will also include the following:
When the killer hasn't chased anyone for a said amount of time, they will receive some kind of clue every so now and then providing them with an increasingly closer approximation of where the survivor(s) is/are. The longer this goes on, the more accurate these approximations become.
The only way for survivors to decrease this timer is by either being chased/by progressing the game through doing generators. Upon being chased, the timer resets and upon working on a generator, the timer will slowly decrease.
Now, knowing the base structure for the solution, I'll leave the specifics in your hands:
∇ After every how many amounts of seconds will the killer receive proximity notifications?
∇ To what degree is that timer changed through the Memoir mechanic?
∇ What is the type of clue that you receive? (Notification warning/aura reading/crows etc)
∇ How fast does progressing the game decrease the timer?
Many community members who are aware of the issues plaguing DBD have already had variations of the Anti-State-Of-Stealth mechanic:
From: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/43036/broken-key-rework-the-hatch-solution/p1
STALEMATE SOLUTION: SANITY
Being the last survivor causes you to go insane overtime. You'll need to make progress to give yourself hope and keep yourself from giving in.
-You'll slowly reach tier 3 insanity overtime, reaching this will cause your aura to be revealed to the killer.
-Completing any action whether that be removing a RBT to finding the Broken Key will help you stay sane.
Explanation: This prevents survivors from doing absolutely nothing when they are the last survivor. Say goodbye to 30+ minute games due to hide and seek world championship!
Step 4: Repurposing the hatch
We liberated the hatch from having to be a free escape mechanic through solving Death-Efficiency.
Even though the hatch was a bandaid fix, it created interesting and tense gameplay nonetheless. Therefore it has it's role in the game. But should it be a reliable escape mechanic? The answer is no longer yes.
Your creative freedom with the hatch can be expanded exponentially.
But even with Death-Efficiency solved, let me point out the following:
When more generators get completed, there are fewer generators left. The further into the game, the less places the killer has expect you to be. Especially as a solo survivor, this too is problematic.
Let me therefore propose to you, that the hatch indeed still serves a purpose: It serves the purpose of increasing the amount of places where you can be.
In your future reworks for the hatch, take that principle into account.
Things like: The hatch takes 20 seconds to open could be all we need.
While we're at it
Not related directly to Death-Efficiency is the Check-Mate effect caused by being able to escape. This is both Prevalent with the Exit Gates and the hatch. Where as the exit gates no longer allow a killer to do anything against a healthy survivor close enough to the exit gate, the Hatch Standoff creates this effect for both sides.
There is a very simple solution to this, which previously was harder to swallow for the hatch mechanic as it rules in the favour of the killer:
Solution: When a killer hits a survivor, all the Exits (exit gates + hatch) will be blocked by the entity's matter for 5-10 amount of seconds. The exit gates are also blocked as long as the killer is standing in the Exit Gate area.
and with that in mind, you have all you need to invent a new and healthy hatch.
With the hatch having a different purpose, a whole plethora of "Hatch-Reworks" will be rendered useless, as they tried to build on already unhealthy mechanics. For those of you taking the new Hatch rework philosophy in mind; you will avoid making that same mistake.
End Note
With those intertwined subjects and changes, we could see a much more healthy version of the game;
Both sides will experience less extreme losses and will not be as frustrated at every little thing that goes wrong.
Games will less often spiral into a 4k and only the better will earn their 4 man survive. Being matched with bad teammates will be less infuriating as you have more control over your faith.
And with that, we have solved the mother of problems in DBD. I will leave specifics for the solutions up to you.
There is unfinished thought-labour here on the following subjects:
∇ How will we rework perks that we now have built into the survivor's kit.
∇ Do we address self-unhooking and if: how?
∇ What are the specifics of the new(/added) bloodlust-mechanic to address the state of stealth?
∇ The Death-Efficiency Solved Hatch rework.
As there is a huge difference between "Fixes" and "Interrelated Fixes", interrelated fixes only make sense if you assume certain other things to be true.
For those of you who want to write ideas with the premise that Death-Efficiency has been solved, make sure to Link this Alternative state of the game & to paste your link down below in the comments to form a library of posts related to this alternative (fixed) state of the game.
The best ones I can find among them will be added in the spoilers below:
Here are the best solutions to:
The interrelated Perk rework:
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On The Subject of Self-Unhooking:
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The specifics of the New Anti-State-of-Stealth mechanic:
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The interrelated Hatch Rework:
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Thanks for reading! Leave your thoughts and criticisms down below.
Comments
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And you still expect the devs to read this monstrosity of a thread?
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@DocOctober said:
And you still expect the devs to read this monstrosity of a thread?Since it covers over 50% of the most prevalent problems in just 1 post, I'd say yes.
We solve: Keeping the game hostage by survivors.
We solve: Gen rushing frustrations on the killers side
We solve: 4k spiral frustration on the survivors side
We solve: The premise for making the Hatch a fair mechanic
We solve: Anger caused by slugging
We solve: Lack of real perk-choice for solo's, by unlocking self-care for everyone and indirectly close part of the Solo vs SWF gap
We solve: Boredom with Hide-And-Seek games
We solve: Significance of the teammate DC problem
We solve: The degree of need for a proper ranking system thanks to self-sufficiencyWith just this tiny of a post for all of that.
Only less prevalent things are not addressed here, like Hex totem spawns, flashlight frustration, etc.
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I see you using my HTML/Markdown guide to good use ;P (I hope kek)
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Honestly I don't like your suggested changes for being able to recover from the dying state and self care being basekit.
As survivors you should have to rely on your teammates for these actions. Remember it's a 1v4 game not a 1v1 and oh yeah there's 3 other people too.5 -
@JanTheMan said:
Remember it's a 1v4 game not a 1v1 and oh yeah there's 3 other people too.
Because it once was therefore it should be? That's a terrible philosophy. Think of all the bugs we would've kept.
Here is my philosophy: If it creates healthy gameplay we should keep it. It it doesn't, we get rid of it.Being reliant on teammates:
-Your own contribution is less significant; You don't really control your game
-You become more SWF dependant
-Matchmaking problems become exacerbated
-DC'ing becomes a great issueBeing Self-reliant:
-You get rewarded for your skill
-Having bad teammates is less frustrating
-Not having a strict matchmaking system is less of a problem
-Even if there's a DC, no reason to put your controller awayNot even do my changes get rid of teamwork at all, or reasons to play as a team.
As survivors you should have to rely on your teammates for these actions.
In the solo environment, this is the same as suggesting: Your win should be more reliant on RNG.
And to address the "should"; Did Laurie Strode in halloween automatically lose after Michael Myers stabbed her friends? Did she become a victim of Death-Efficiency in the movies? I really doubt she did, and I really doubt she should.
Post edited by AlwaysInAGoodShape on0 -
@DocOctober said:
And you still expect the devs to read this monstrosity of a thread?they could, if they want to read what felt like 7 paragraphs
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@weirdkid5 said:
I see you using my HTML/Markdown guide to good use ;P (I hope kek)https://pbar.fnal.gov/htmlref.html
(:
Really love HTML/Markdown. It's the best.0 -
Can I suggest this, which I posted in another thread:
"Perhaps, depending on how fast the gens were done, one exit would be permanently locked (behind the gate, so opening the gate is required to see). Opening one gate regresses the others progress (unless already opened) as fast as the other opens, and both cannot be opening simultaneously (showing by the bar turning a solid red and slowly regressing). This means that SWF can be temporarily blocked if they were too effective, and can cause confusion among split survivors, meaning that instead of needing to kill one you need to release another, you have a chance to catch up."
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@weirdkid5 said:
I see you using my HTML/Markdown guide to good use ;P (I hope kek)https://pbar.fnal.gov/htmlref.html
(:
Really love HTML/Markdown. It's the best.0 -
Great work on that one! I really liked sites that showed the syntax directly by using he "Ignore" syntax. Sadly on the forums the xmp/div/pre don't work for all I know.
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@AetherBytes said:
Can I suggest this, which I posted in another thread:"Perhaps, depending on how fast the gens were done, one exit would be permanently locked (behind the gate, so opening the gate is required to see). Opening one gate regresses the others progress (unless already opened) as fast as the other opens, and both cannot be opening simultaneously (showing by the bar turning a solid red and slowly regressing). This means that SWF can be temporarily blocked if they were too effective, and can cause confusion among split survivors, meaning that instead of needing to kill one you need to release another, you have a chance to catch up."
This is clearly a mechanic against gen-rushing right? Did you mean this as 1 of the 4 topics listed at the bottom of the post?
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