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Game health and the problem of players not enjoying the game.
Comments
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The problem is that this is mainly a mindset issue. They've played this game to the point where they are simply not enjoying it anymore. Should we just cater to those players and give them what they want? Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
I think people just need to take a break and come back like a month later.4 -
Mindset doesn't change one's expectations of how a game will play out. At best it changes one's tolerance to it.
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Yes it kinda does. You aren't immediately thinking oh the game is over after one early chase. And you're more willing to push through it.
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Well, I think it's immediately game over if that S-tier killer is half-decent and I'm correct every single time.
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I don't care about that tbh. I'm having good fun against Nurses and Blights. Their chases are the most engaging especially compared to killers like Trapper
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This is not about S-tier killers but about expectations. I agree that their chases are somewhat more interesting but in the end it is always a 4k. Just like Trapper games are over if 2 people get put into basement too early.
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and you're not wrong about that. I'm just not really playing with any expectations, I just do the gens, go for unhooks and try to extend my chases for as long as possible
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I love the killer main mentality that I should go into a pvp match fully expecting to lose every time and this is considered the correct way to play survivor.
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I mean you are correct it is a mindset thing. If you see the game as a sandbox where the end doesn't really matter then there is nothing driving you out of it. If you care about the end and it becomes obvious no one is leaving through the gate there is almost nothing keeping you in it. Then there is the only other case everyone ever talks about so I don't have to.
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I mean it's definitely going to be difficult to win soloQ against s tier killers so I can see where people are coming from but I don't think it's healthy to expect to lose every time. Like I said before at this point just play something different.
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Kinda have to poke holes in this one:
First there's about 5 of those perks from both lists combined that would be considered "meta" by alot of ppl (can't actually remember when we last saw a flip flop combo other than a kyf).
Second for most of that first list (those that work off hook) don't really do much except help against a killer who's near/coming back for them aka camping/trying to tunnel. Off the record and DS self explanatory, babysitter to zoom away, resurgence and second wind to quickly heal before the killer returns, etc.
That second list has a couple flaws, mostly in breakdown and background player. The first would fit more in the first list as it works off hook and second on its own doesn't deny hooks, which would be flashlights or bangs. This is just us being picky though.
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3v1 is the only way you can even win this game as killer against a good team (if you're not playing the top3 killers Nurse, Blight and maybe Billy), if you let 3 people survive until 1-2 gens left then you basically lost. The problem is that not tunneling gets punished very often once you're in the upper MMR regions.
If i play survivor and i see the killer 1-hooking the first 3 survivors, i already know we won, there is just absolutely no pressure in this situation.A 3v1 isn't lost for survivors if it is not happening as early as 5-4 gens left.
Post edited by solidhex on0 -
I would not generalize that. Many people fall into that mindset and think its fact for every game. Its not. I learned that over the 4k hours I played.
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First there's about 5 of those perks from both lists combined that would be considered "meta" by alot of ppl (can't actually remember when we last saw a flip flop combo other than a kyf).
i intentionally put Flip Flop under just "denying hook" and not "meta" category, it's not meta at all, just plain unhealthy for the game. Only 1st list are meta perks (not necessarily in average soloQ pub match because people usually don't know how to get value of perks)
Second for most of that first list (those that work off hook) don't really do much except help against a killer who's near/coming back for them aka camping/trying to tunnel. Off the record and DS self explanatory, babysitter to zoom away, resurgence and second wind to quickly heal before the killer returns, etc.
all of those perks have much more optimal uses out of cases of camping and tunneling.
Reassurance for example also saves you time for a save even when killer is not camping.
Off the Record and DS have an extremely popular way of being used in very aggressive way, which is most popular in European region.
That second list has a couple flaws, mostly in breakdown and background player. The first would fit more in the first list as it works off hook and second on its own doesn't deny hooks, which would be flashlights or bangs. This is just us being picky though.
Breakdown creates hook deadzones, which are extremely problematic in cases where you are playing against SWFs intentionally playing that way.
BGP is not only for flashbang and flashlight saves, but for another kind of saves, much more powerful than these two: pallet saves.
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I have also over 4k hours and this was my experience. There will always be outlier-games, but given that you play against experienced survivors, they will punish you for not tunneling. Managing 4 survivors is impossible in late game (1-2 gens left), that's why every comp killer plays exactly like that. Sure, if your game goes well and you get 3-4 hooks before they even finish a single gen, i would also start playing chill, but nowadays this barely happens to me. There was a time where this was possible more often, but lately the game has shifted a little bit more towards survivors again (with perks like Deja Vu becoming meta).
They need to implement incentives to go for all survivors (not just band-aid perks like Grim Embrace that aren't even among the best to begin with) and punish tunneling more, then balance the game again - i would love that, because i hate tunneling, but it is unfortunately the best way to win.0 -
Again, you generalize. Many factors go into how a game is going. What killer is played, what map is chosen ans the loadout of both killer and survivor in terms of perks is important to consider.
I perosnally main Pig. Luckily enough, she is one of, if not the only killer that actually gets rewarded for not tunneling survivors asap. Winning against 3-4 survivors at one gen remaining is also very much possible depending on not just the things I mentioned before, but also how many resources are still available at that point.
If you hate the way you play and you dont enjoy it, then here is some advice: Find your own fun. I stopped trying to win by force about a year ago and it did wonders to my performance. I play a lot more focused and concentraded, resulting in me winning a majority of my matches. Enjoying what your doing goes a long way. Again, this is just advice. You do what you think is best for you.
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If that's the case then there's 4 total meta.
all of those perks have much more optimal uses out of cases of camping and tunneling.
You'd really have to stretch the definition of optimal if that were true. For example reassurance. You have to be relatively close to activate it, so unless someone was hooked close to a mostly finished gen, it definitely is better to get another body to work for the team than to proc reassurance and work on some gen (this is assuming the killer ain't camping).
Off the record has also gotten a survivor to either waste their own time trying to eat hits or has eaten a hit so quickly it has never made much difference compared to making it less appealing to chase them fresh off hook (admittedly regional differences is a new thought to consider). DH is one of the ones that isn't primarily for tunneling/camping true but as we said, most (as in not all) of the list is {that said, DH is a parry. Don't see why it wouldn't be used for either offense or defense.}
Unless you are hooking multiple survivors in the same area in a relatively small time frame (in which case your not doing all that bad) that deadzone isn't going to be happening at the will of survivors.
Fair point with the pallet saves but the amount of times that happens is about as much as flip flop and that also still fails to solve our pickiness of bgp on its own not denying hooks.
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So today's three games in solo queue.
A slugging Myers, although with a decent team and builds that combatted it. 2 got out.
A game against a Blight where the first survivor hooked instantly killed themself on hook and the Blight proceeded to hump the last survivor on the ground for 4 minutes.
Getting hard tunnelled by an Unknown in dead zones.
So much fun this game is at present.
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