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slugging in general?
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I think it's more likely, unfortunately, that people would just DC while being slugged.
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There's just no winning lol.
Well, if everyone wants to shoot everything down other than 'Bleedout button', I give up. Its a fruitless fight. This community is definitely unique.
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And I whole heartly agree with that... and the same for tunneling as a matter of fact...
Killers should be penalized for not entertaining the entity... and that is how they can implament this
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Perk Name: “Against All Odds”
“Even in the darkest moments, you refuse to let go.”•Effect: If there are only two survivors remaining and one of you is in the dying state for more than 10/8/6 seconds, their bleed-out timer is paused as long as the other survivor is within 20/24/28 meters. The survivor in the dying state also gains the ability to fully recover without assistance if they remain within this range.
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You are talking about a very specific scenario of bleeding out 4 survivors on the ground, that isn't what i'm talking about here. I'm talking about the act of slugging in general. You slug survivor A to go after survivor B, and so on. Once all 4 are on the ground, you just pick them up and hook them. Its pretty rare to bleed everyone out forever.
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I think slugging in general enriches the game, be it slugging opportunistically/tactically in a match that otherwise follows a more regular gameplay loop or strategically slugging where you try to slug as much as possible and win through it.
People say being on the floor is boring, but it is objectively less boring than being on a hook. On a hook you essentially cannot do anything. You have more agency on the floor as you can recover, crawl to pallets, teammates, gates, hatch or areas the killer is less likely to find you in, position yourself to enable someone to pick you up mid-chase, and there are vastly more perks that benefit survivors in the dying state than there are that benefit survivors on hook. You also cannot nearly as effectively be "camped" or "tunnelled" out of the game from the floor.
Full-on slugging matches yield low-downtime, high-intensity gameplay loops where a lot more chases and chances happen, camping and tunnelling effectively don't exist, and foregone conclusions are much rarer, as the match can flip at practically any time even if 3 (or even 4) survivors had been slugged, even after 10 or more minutes of playing whack-a-mole, since it is possible for everyone to get back up and reset, without having accumulated hook stages. It makes for really dynamic, back-and-forth matchflows and I for one much welcome this on both sides. Alas, it's vanishingly rare to encounter a killer that actually slugs as an overarching strategy.
Of course, there are killers that it can be overpowered on, most of all Nurse, Blight, Billy, Singularity and Twins. But that is more to do with those killers being overpowered than slugging itself being an issue (Singularity and Twins aren't generally as overpowered, but they have problematic aspects and they are overly problematic against uncoordinated groups). Slugging in general on most killers however is a perfectly fine and engaging strategy, even - or rather: especially - when including things like Knock Out and Third Seal. I would encourage anyone to try it as killer, and any survivor player to earnestly reflect on the fun levels they've had in such matches. People usually complain about "slugging" when it was one of those aforementioned OP killers that likely would have beaten them decisively anyway and where they merely opportunistically slugged 1-2 survivors, or when someone slugged them to bleedout even after the match was already won, or when they slugged the second-to-last survivor to guarantee the kill on the last one. And those are actual problems worth complaining about and that should have long been addressed. But slugging tactically and strategically benefits the game greatly.
Play any killer as you normally would, but simply never pick survivors up (unless of course you actually manage to slug everyone). See how much fun you can be having with the low downtime and frequent chases this yields. Mind you, you will regularly lose when playing like this (unless you are playing one of the stronger killers and are a strong player), but it gives you an impression of how engaging and refreshing a change of pace this can be. And as you find the right build and get more familiar with the strategy and make some adjustments to it (e. g. actually hooking people if you don't get an Infectious Fright proc), you will also start winning more often.
I really hope BHVR won't get rid of Knock Out or implement general basekit counters to slugging. The only changes we need in this regard are nerfs to specific overpowered killers and remedies to the ability to bleed people out and "slug for the 4k". Those can be things like giving survivors the option to "surrender to the Entity" when everyone is in the dying state, being sacrificed then and there just like in EGC, and both this option to surrender and the ability to recover from the dying state when only two people remain in the trial, forcing the killer to pick up in a reasonable time or forcing the hatch endgame.
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sometimes i really do wonder why survivors try to twist literal facts into odd personal remarks about one's own skill
like, if someone says that slugging is the most efficient way to win, they'll get a response like yours, saying something completely off topic like "oh well if u can only win by slugging then youre just not good blah blah blah"
slugging is the most efficient way to win right now, its more efficient than hooking, and it has literally nothing to do with people's skill
also: "just spread pressure" is the new "just pressure gens" lolol5 -
For reals, most of the slugging complaints is because it doesn’t allow survivors to ragequit in a way that bypasses the DC penalties.
Being slugged on the ground is pretty much the same non-interactive experience as being stuck on a hook. In fact, being slugged is more interactive than being on a hook, because survivors can crawl around while slugged.
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this community has developed a well known coping mechanism where people don't wanna admit they made any mistakes in gameplay, but somehow it always has to be "sweaty" opponent and game balance. In this case, people try to insult skill of their opponent because they need a good coping mechanism to get over losing matches. Little do they know that this is one way ticket to never improving at the game.
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There's no real reward for hooking, it punishes you more (activating strong survivor perks and making pallet/flashlight saves possible). I guess they'd have to reward killers for hooking, as now it's sometimes not even worth it.
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Its worth it for points. Thats about it.
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To everyone saying 'More agency on the ground'. you're really grasping for anything, aren't you?
The issue is its boring. But, also gens are boring. Hooks are boring. Not being in a chase is boring.
Whats fun about the game?
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Who's "we"?
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I gave you my word I was not THAT Singularity.
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I really honestly feel that if a person can't figure out how to make this game fun for them even when losing, they need a break. I can still have fun punching stuff as Nemesis even if I 0k. I can still have fun derping around with my friends with flashlights even if we all die.
If you (collective you, not YOU personally Spare_Them_Mori_me) cannot find a way to have fun or find humor in this game even when you lose, this is not the game for you. You're expected to sometimes lose. And as Survivor especially you are expected to lose about 10% more often than the Killer does, because that's just how the game is.
If your only fun is in winning, you need to play a single player game.
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When you own every DLC, and have every perk on every character, bloodpoints don't matter so much.
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Agreed. Im there. Just tossing out the only reason i could think of. And the reason is usually moot and insufficient. Bhvr could bandaid and give massive points for hooks and it still wouldn't change anything, imo. Im very curious how things take shape though. Will they try new perks to combat sluggin like with DS and other such nonsense perks? Who knows!
I agree with most of this. And for context, my game name is also 'Spare Them, Mori Me?' so believe me, I am fine with dying over and over and over. In this game, especially in solo'Q, you need to make your own fun sometimes. If that said created fun shits on the game for everyone else, feels like bhvr should peek at it and see whats up. Buuuuuuut its just a feeling and something wanted, not really necessary. Playing the game, you pretty much agree to be at the mercy of another human being able to dictate your time is spent into the game. Damn… sounds stupid when i read it out loud lol.
Good points though. Thank you.
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You make some good points too and I agree - if the way you have fun is to make others miserable, this also isn't the game for you. It shouldn't even be about BP, I'm at the point I have won enough and unlocked all the things that I genuinely no longer care that much about wins or BP anyway except for levelling people up (I still do not have a p100 or everyone fully leveled). Frankly, I think the game gets a lot better when you stop feeling like you ever need to grind anymore because there's not much more to grind for. It means you can focus on just playing and enjoying it, doing whatever you want, challenges, personal goals, improvement, whatever. There is no limit or arbitrary need once you unlock everything, it's all a big ol' sandbox you can goof in. It really is so freeing when you stop focusing on a win ratio or how badly you need to escape/4k.
Booting this game up is a bit of a contract, you agree that you might end up losing, and you agree that you can't control the outcome, and THEY agree to hopefully not be a jerk and just play with sportsmanship. At least that is how it should be, everyone should go in more with a "may the best man win" approach if everyone's gonna treat this game like it's comp instead of a casual "try to kill people/not die" horror movie style experience - because it's clearly not trying that hard to be serious in tone or competitive. Maybe it did at one point, maybe the mechanics say it is, but it certainly isn't the actual spirit of this game. However if y'all want it to be comp, it's long past time to act like it instead of being a little child - be a good sport and don't whine about how the other side plays, just play and no matter what happens may the best man win.I like your username and I think we may have run into each other a few times; I've seen that username before. From what I recall you are pretty decent at the game! If I ever see you in game again I will definitely try to Mori you and let the others go. :) I love Moris and am happy we have endgame Mori, though I don't always take it.
Per the slugging thing? Again, I think the only really problematic form of this is the actual toxic bleedout and die slug or being left in the corner to bleed because you crawled off. The best option I think, still, is just to either have ONE basekit Unbreakable per round that activates solely after 30 seconds (you can get another with the perk, or two more sorta with Plot Twist), or to have a 2 minute bleedout timer so this cannot be abused by either side. 2 minutes is reasonable for everything else, why is bleedout four minutes? If you didn't want a basekit Unbreakable abuse, too, you could have an AFC style timer where it only goes up and activates it if the Killer is standing near you, because if you crawl off to bleed out the only one to blame is yourself. Then you would have to make it so that the Killer gets an unblockable Aura read on any leftover slugs at about the halfway mark of the bleedout, preventing hiding to spite the Killer out of points.
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