Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
BHVR Almo on why ASYMS fail
Comments
-
I thought it was ironic a dev was a killer main and didn't like VHS because killer in that game was harder. I always said BHVR devs are totally disconnected from the survivor win conditions and experience.
Hopefully BHVR hires someone better.
4 -
I don't think killer role agency has much to do with why VHS died, given how scuffed early DbD was in terms of the sheer amount of bullshit the survivor side had. I think the VHS team just completely mishandled the game (and the community) from the top down. The first and biggest mistake being that they were in closed beta for so damn long, never got out of early access, and never released a console version.
A lot of the other asyms died due to IP restrictions and/or unremarkable/one note gameplay that didn't lend well to the live service model.
2 -
If you honestly look at the state of VHS through it's ENTIRE lifetime, and see ALL the VHS streamers, with 1/40 of them queuing up for monster. Looking at 90% of them queuing up as Teen, swearing up and down that Monster is "fine and fun to play" but would rather wait nearly an HOUR in queue to play Teen…and you think it had nothing to do with the Monster role?
The evidence is screaming, and you're simply incorrect.
1 -
I didn't play much VHS so I have no input on it's failure, but I do feel like the elephant in the room that wasn't mentioned in that post is how much of DBD's success can be attributed to the influence of crossovers with other classic Horror IPs. What other asym game can you play as characters from titles such as SAW, RE, Silent Hill, Hellraiser, NoES, and Halloween all-in-one place? Have the whole RE squad up against a Xenomorph?? It's been echoed before, but the IPs in DBD do a lot of the heavy lifting for it imo. People will turn a blind-eye to ######### in the gameplay if it means getting to play their favorite movie and videogame characters.
2 -
It wasn't the opposite. The reason why Teens, even new Teens, stomped new Monsters is because Monster had a higher skill floor. Once you made it past the skill floor Monster was pretty good.
One of my most significant feedback points as a beta tester was, in my opinion, although high level Monsters did well and, at the high end, the game was very well balanced it was unrealistic to expect players to get stomped repeatedly and want to play. Although I was winning most of my games after getting past the skill floor my first 40 games had a win rate of single digits and it took 100 games before I had even a 33% win rate. I pointed out that this was a game, not a professional competitive event, and that those type of odds would cause new Monster players to find another game instead, this would cause queues to lengthen, and then Teens would also start dropping out due to queue times and this would create a death spiral for the game. I even had a conversation with the lead about this but my advice was politely discounted and ignored.
History proved me 100% correct. However, the developers put a far greater emphasis on a select group of high end players and their feedback and tuned their game specifically for the top end. That's why there were no changes to low end Monster play; it was considered unnecessary as the entire focus was on the high end. For a competitive sport such as soccer that's a good strategy as the revenue comes from spectators. For any game that relies on participation such as most video games that's a death knell. As such, I pointed out that if VHS didn't make Monster entertaining enough that at least 15%, and preferably 20%, of the players queued were for Monster the game would fail.
It wasn't high end Monsters leaving; they were the only ones who stayed. There were Teens complaining about how they had no chance as the only Monsters left were the grizzled, masochistic veterans and that there were no inexperienced Monsters so inexperienced Teens started leaving as well. By that point, there was no return and it was only at that point that the developers introduced Danger Sense which did even out the skill floor. However, it was too late at that point.
But it was balancing for the top exclusively that killed VHS and ignoring that if new players don't have fun they won't stick around for the hundreds of games necessary for the average player to get on an even footing with the Teens. People won't stick around if they think it's a hopeless struggle. They'll just leave and find another game they have fun playing.
10 -
Thank goodness coordinated teams were rare in Evolve. That should sound familiar too.
One of the issues Evolve had that led to its downfall (not the only factor as you know so let’s not pretend here) was that no one really wanted to play as the hunters. Monster was the more popular role. At a high level of skill, yes, you could win most of your matches as monster.
I actually think if both the hunters and the monster were highly skilled, it was a balanced match with the edge going to whomever had the better early game. If the monster broke up the hunter team by focusing down one of their players (Wraith and Kraken were really good at this; Gorgon wasn’t bad either) it was a wipe for the hunters. If the hunters worked together and cornered the monster without ceding ground then they stood a good chance at winning. Hunters couldn’t sleep through matches and win. Neither could monsters. And frankly, that’s how it should be.
3 -
Rarity doesn't change the fact that its a problem and led to the games eventual downfall and likely will lead to DBDs as well.
Just because something is rare doesn't mean it is balanced. My question to you is, are you one of the ones who thinks killers like blight are too strong? Do you think nurse is too strong? After all, it is rare for someone to go against a killer that can just 4k at 5 gens with these killers. So they are fine right? Is nurse fine? Is she balanced? After all, in most games, she's actually below average in terms of kill rate when you look at the average games played. Its only in the hands of that "rare" 4k hour nurse main that she's able to destroy everyone while trolling.
Watch a tru3ta1ent video some time. I know he gets a lot of flak, but look at the caliber of teams that he constantly goes against. This is also the kind of thing i see, almost every game, all p100s, bringing in crazy medkits, instaheals, bnps, all survivors with DS/DH/Hyperfocus with cracked toolboxes almost every single game (on my main killers anyway)
0 -
I don't think it has "nothing" to do with it. I just don't think the game would've magically took off if they fixed that issue anyway. They screwed up too hard in too many other ways for it to matter in the long run.
1
