http://dbd.game/killswitch
Solution to SBMM pain points already exists...
SBMM is a worthwhile additon to the game, but it's one problem is it's far too simple.
- For Killer it at least requires you to be competant to 4k, but it does encourage strategies that require you to kill at any cost, rather than make a game of it (and feed fear to the entity), and often it's more a measure of how sweaty you play rather than how skilful you play.
- For Survivor however often it is way off base, cause there are so many factors that make up whether you can escape or not, and a lot of them are not at all reflective of your actual skill at DBD. Often it's more a measure of how cowardly you play, instead of how skilful you play.
That said, since kills/escapes are the defining goals of the game, it still makes sense to have them as part of your MMR calculation… but it shouldn't be the only factor...
This problem is already solved!
You have the emblem system, that reward players for their contributions/performance in the match. You often can't get good emblem scores if you're playing a sweaty or lame strategy, nor if your playimg like a coward.
Why not feature emblems as part of SSBM?
After calculating the MMR diff to be rewarded for this game instead of making kills/escapes 100% of the MMR calculation, instead make the following weightings: -
Killer:
- Kills contribute up to 36% of this score.
- 0%, 9%, 18%, 27%, 36% for 0-4k respectively.
- The remaining 64% is made up of emblem scores. Each emblem is worth 16% at maximum.
- 0%, 4%, 8%, 12%, 16% for nothing, bronze, silver, gold, iri respectively.
Survivor:
- Self escape contributes up to 36% of this score.
- If queued with friends, their escapes count for a third of your overall score. Your own escape is worth 24%, and your allies are 12% divided equally between them. (12%, 6%, 4% for 1-3 friends respectively)
- The remaining 64% is made up of emblem scores. Each emblem is worth 16% at maximum.
- 0%, 4%, 8%, 12%, 16% for nothing, bronze, silver, gold, iri respectively.
This brings what you actually DO in the trial into the calculation. Escaping/Killing features prominently in your score, but if you actually want to climb, satisfying the terms of the Entities trial would be a factor for your MMR.
Few problems with this...
For killer it would mean sweaty strategies that don't score well but get a 4k don't really climb... which of course means that lower tier players bear the brunt of trolling and obnoxious playstyles...
This therefore.might be an incentive to added MMR as a visible entity to the game... as a carrot/indicator of not really satisfying the terms of the Entities trial, so is not really a "win" as far as the Entity is concerned.
There is also a need to clean up some killer power scores events... characters like Pig famously have trouble with Devious points cause there aren't many instances they can use their power effectively.
However would a system still give more benefits than detriments?
Comments
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Such a good idea for a better sbmm system. Sadly behaviour don't give a ######### and preffer continous creation of worthless cosmetics and buggy chapters instead of gameplay imrpovements so I really wish this idea was implemented but they don't like doing a good job so far so
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Emblems arent good indicators for how well a match went, especially for Survivor, whose emblems are split into gens, altruism, chases and not going down for some reason. You can get one or two of these categories, but provided matches are balanced you should never be recieving all four.
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I see what you're saying, and you make a good point…
However the current system is even worse for survivor, where you can loop the killer for 5 gens and still be the one to die, while the survivors who just did gens and escaped climb...
If it were possible to account for how many survivors escaped, that'd be nice. However there is this problem that a player can die early and the result of the game has to play out, and at that point where do you stop tracking it?
The weighting for survivor emblems can be adjusted, maybe count your 2 highest emblems and double everything...
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Nice idea.
However, Emblems themselves need some revising and changing to happen, so that would have to be handled, too.
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Why replace a bad system with a bad system, and why weight the survivor emblems when that means admitting theres a huge problem with the way survivors pip to iri 1?
If they fixed the emblem system maybe I'd be on board, but not before.
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Erm... because it's a significant improvement over the current system and there isn't an alternative suggestion that's better? How "bad" it is is gonna have to be something you quantify to reject the suggestion, because the revised version has clear significant advantages over the current system.
Like fine, if we accept the premise the emblem system needs fixing, what is the suggestion to fixing it? How do you score emblems if they don't need to exert their skill at those emblems to win the game because the work for satisfying those emblems is divided by 4 players?
Simple answer is you can't. The killer is involved in every aspect of the game, while a survivor is not, which is a valid observation you've made as a flaw... but it's an unsolvable issue that a utopian "fix this first" response isn't going to resolve.
The emblem system is the current best method of assessing a survivors contribution/performance in a match, and is certainly more accurate than the blanket "escape vs. dead" version we have now.
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For Killer it at least requires you to be competent to 4k, but it does encourage strategies that require you to kill at any cost,
This is completely incorrect, all the MMR system requires for a 4K is the Killer being somewhat better than the Survivors, which will send them up in mmr and send Survivors down in MMR. But the game isnt encouraging you to do anything, other than saying the Entity Hungers or Merciless Killer. Unless you get a dopamine rush out of text on a screen, I dont see how anyone could be motivated to by it. wow the entity is hungry? cry my a river entity.
since kills/escapes are the defining goals of the game, it still makes sense to have them as part of your MMR calculation…
This is also incorrect, it isnt the goal, you role is to kill or survive, but your success is not a goal, its what happens in a scenario some die and some escape. There is more to being a Killer or a Survivor than success, this always seemed clear to me as developers never claim you must succeed to win.
We get to make our own goals, and our goals dont apply to each other.
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Would you believe I actually agree with you?
I have argued before that MMR being hidden the way it is means climbing MMR is a pointless objective, because nothing in the game indicates this to you. We know about it because devs announced the SBMM and MMR system, but there isn't actually anything in the game that feeds this back to you. The goal of climbing MMR when you don't even see the result to my mind is completely ridiculous.
Everything in the actual game itself tries to encourage you to get as many hooks as possible, to get as many chases as possible, to use your power as much as possible, to stun the killer as much as possible, to complete gens and break totems, to unhook and heal… and yet people argued vehermently that getting 4 kills and climbing MMR is the aim of the game, because that is a goal they have defined…
The goal of DBD lore wise is to cause as much pain and fear as possible for the Entity to feed on… and survivor wise to save each other from that fate, but most importantly save yourself, and the old Grades system fed into this. The new SBMM has simplified this down to just kills/escapes, which isn't the same thing, and instead of striving to complete more complex objectives, the "skill" has been turned into a simply yes or no question.
So to my mind, combining the 2 together naturally encourages more skillful gameplay, since players who have defined climbing MMR as their goal, have a more complex set of conditions to satisfy realising that goal.
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Everything in the actual game itself tries to encourage you to get as many hooks as possible, to get as many chases as possible, to use your power as much as possible, to stun the killer as much as possible, to complete gens and break totems, to unhook and heal…
The goal of DBD lore wise is to cause as much pain and fear as possible for the Entity to feed on… and survivor wise to save each other from that fate, but most importantly save yourself,
No, that is you again deciding that bloodpoints should be your goal. OR using the Lore of this game. But its just flavor, the entity does not actually exist. and nothing will happen if it starves or not. Its a fabrication and not relevant to the game really.
You tell me you agree, but you totally miss the point that this game was made to create an experience, not a goal. whatever goal we each have is fine, its just not something we need the MMR to measure, MMR isn't there to figure out who is the best player, MMR is there to ensure relative matchmaking quality.
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Whatever goal we each have is fine, its just not something we need the MMR to measure, MMR isn't there to figure out who is the best player, MMR is there to ensure relative matchmaking quality.
I clearly am misunderstanding your point, because MMRs goal is as you say here to ensure relative matchmaking quality...
In all of my posts in this thread I have made the point that the current system is too simple, since majority of players agree that getting a successful 4k is not necessarily a measure of skill, which Dowsey argued ad nauseum to great effect in his Kills = Skill video, and we all know there are plenty of mean and unfair strategies that don't particularly require much skill to succeed.
From Survivor side, looping the killer for 5 gens and being the one who gets sacrificed on hook while the other survivors leave is not a measure of skill either. This is one scenario, but there are numerous scenarios where skillful players die and non-skillful players escape, and I doubt you can find anyone who will disagree with that point.
Literally the entire point of my post is to appropriately measure skill, you need to have a system that takes game events into account, and the system that currently does this is the emblem system...
This is the point I'm making, that you need to account for actions in game more for a more genuine representation of skill. Is it perfect and flawless? No… likely no system is... but it does a better job of representing skill than the rudimentary kills/escapes current system we have does.
The fact it also relates player skill to satisfying the lore and bloodpoints reward systems of the game is a side benefit, since being encouraged to compete with players of similar skill in a manner that is line with the intended experience is surely the goal of an MMR system is it not? Especially when the alternative is MMR fights against the intended experience of the game.
If I'm not making sense, I'd like to please ask where my explanation is faltering or my suggestion is pushing a detrimental effect, because currently I'm not seeing the objection.
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Well to sum up the problem, it is that you try to define the goal of this game, when the developers clearly leave that up to ourselves.
That also includes any system like MMR that works to ensure match quality or bloodpoints which works to reward us for play.
Just because a system is in the game does not make a goal, especially for systems that applies to more than yourself, which should be clear because we don't even see those numbers.0 -
I mean for all intents and purposes the Emblem system is already what defines the goal of the game by rewarding players with bloodpoints, in that emblems and score event are the only visual indicators that can even be construed as a goal. The only difference is that if you have all the bloodpoints you want/need, then you don't care about the only goal the game gives you, and instead you pursue your own goal in MMR.
Since climbing MMR is a purely player defined goal (which it is by virtue of the fact no one knows what their MMR is), switching it from kills/escapes to kills/escapes plus scoring more points doesn't change that, it is still a player defined goal to try and climb MMR, just the parameters are slightly different. There is no "defining a new goal" by changing how an invisible metric works, its entirely the players choice if they want to score more points, or just go for kills.
If anything it offers more choice in pursuit of that goal, because going for kills/escapes is certainly still an aspect of climbing MMR, its not removed from the equation, but scoring points is also a part of climbing MMR as well, so as a player you can go for either, or, or both to climb MMR.
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