Why Do People Say There's No Clear Win Condition In DBD?
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Winning can mean different things to different people and winning does not allways mean the games definition of winning. You get to decide what your objective is. Is it to get 3 or 4 kills, or escape, or is it somthing else? Maybe you make some whacky build that does a cool thing and pulling off that cool thing is your only real objective. If you lose by the games definition do you still feel like you have lost? You achieved your objective.
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I don't envy the devs here. The result of the match is typically determined by the efforts of the whole of the survivor side (the 4). So it might be 'fairer' to look at the end result when looking at MMR, opposed to simply looking at 'did you die?' Heroic sacrifices are a non-factor regarding MMR, for example, even though it may very well have allowed the other three to escape. Conversely, it'd also be brutally unfair if the rest of the survivors get screwed over by a teammate actively sabotaging the match.
But the devs also emphasise that teamwork is not obligatory. 'Survive together… or not,' or something akin to that. So then you have to look at the individual survivor's 'performance', and the only truly consistent measure of that is whether they escaped or not.
So… what do we do? What do we want, even? I don't think we, as in the community at large, are ever going to be able to agree on that.
PS.: I vaguely recall Emblems also slightly contributed towards your MMR rating. No idea if that's actually true, and I'm also way too bad with numbers to make any accurate statement regarding their influence.
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Maybe the UI has changed but I can verify several months ago the emblem bar still showed pips. Yes, the grade 1 icon does not have pips but I believed the bar does but I could be wrong. It will take me a bit to grind to grade 1 to check.
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I think it may be easier to understand where “no clear win condition” comes from if we consider that:
- Reading all available information is not a common practice.
- Vast majority of PvP games are symmetrical in nature.
From that it would be easy to extrapolate that a player who plays Dbd may be likely to approach the game from a classical PvP point of view (eliminate everyone) while also being too inexperienced of a player to parse the nuance of the end game screen message of however the Entity is feeling.
That’s on the Killer side. The win conditions on the Survivor side also mess with traditional PvP concepts. Is the game a team deathmatch or a free for all? Both? Kind of? That alone is already enough to challenge preconceived gameplay paradigm structures.
My guess is that this is where some of the confusion comes from.
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I think that interpretation only really works if you think the killer is playing four 1v1 matches simultaneously. In that case, sure, it's clear who won each of those matches. But I think the killer is playing one 1v4 match, because the killer's interaction with survivor #1 directly effects their interaction with survivor #2. And, in a 1v4 match, it's not clear what constitutes victory for either side.
If I'm the only survivor who dies and my teammates escape, is that a team win for me? If my whole team died at 5 gens and I jump in the hatch, is that a win for me? I literally don't know.
This is the only game I've ever played where everyone in the match can feel like they lost.
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I don't envy the devs here.But the devsalsoemphasise that teamwork is not obligatory. 'Survive together… or not,' or something akin to that. So then youhaveto look at the individual survivor's 'performance', and the only truly consistent measure of that is whether they escaped or not.So… what do we do? What do we want, even? I don't think we, as in the community at large, are ever going to be able to agree on that.So this is generally kind of how I feel. The devs have a difficult situation that they have made more difficult for themselves.
On the other hand, and the thread discussing Almo's post made me think a lot more about this, DbD is an extremly successful game surrounded by a litany of failed asymms. DbD wants the players to value multiple things on the survivor side, personal escape as well as team escape. It does this through a mish mash of various points and rewards that, somehow, actually get people to generally play the way the devs would want - a mix of personal desires along with altruism.
So are we ever going to agree? Probably not, which is probably what BHVR wants for the game, different players valuing different things.
Basically; people having different values is a feature, not a bug.
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