Wake Up NERF?!
Comments
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I honestly am left speechless and flabberghasted by this change.
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These days it's hard to tell if this is a joke or not.
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Somehow I'm not surprised.
We go from almost nobody uses Wake Up to nobody uses Wake Up.
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Constantly load you into unwinnable solo queue games. Nerf one of the only ways to salvage those games. Don't address unwinnable 3v1 and 2v1 scenarios that caused people to run Sole Survivor+Wake Up
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I appreciate you jumping in and providing some context! I think that use of Wake Up you describe is more symptomatic of unwinnable 3v1 and 2v1 scenarios than a causative thing with Wake Up. There's genuinely no reason for survivors to even attempt to progress objectives in most 3v1 or 2v1 scenarios.
It's actively detrimental to your chances of survival and the gens will almost never get done. In my 5000 hours, I think I've seen 3+ gens get done in a 3v1 maybe 20 times. The only way to salvage that situation is some combination of Sole Survivor+Wake Up+Left Behind. I don't really see the logic in penalizing Wake Up users when it's a 2v1 at 3 remaining gens. What incentive do those players have to not hide?
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It's whatever makes you press the vote up button, mhyes.
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They are lost about balance since Skull Merchant, every single update we are seeing bad decisions, they have so much stuff already and even them dont know what they need to do and since 2023 every update they forget more and more things and after change something they make balanced more broken in because they forget some information behind that change. This game have so much stuff and even DEVS dont know about all their stuff already have and this coming to visible more and more after every single change
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In a way the change does "favor survivors" because the purpose of the change was so somebody didn't do the "rat build" and just hide a whole game but get a near guarantee escape every game. Would be pretty rough honestly.
Probably not the change i would have done here, i probably would have made it get disabled if there was only 1 survivor left to discourage that.1 -
honestly the 50% speed was pretty silly. However this iteration isn't great either, what it should've been was that they kept the 25% speed but allow everyone on your team to see the exit gates. A small, but useful change to the perk.
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Yeah, they should rework Sole-Survivor as it's an intrinsically useless perk and actively pushes a "rat gameplay" as they put it.
I loved using Wake Up with Quentin, but now after this change I will not be using it. At least revert it back to how it was prior, as this is a net-negative change going forward.
We already have people killing themselves on hook and dcing to leave a bot -- so, we nerf a perk that gets more useless the less survivors are alive? Lol.
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'How do you do, fellow survivor mains? Don't you hate it when your teammates aren't altruistic enough! I have the perfect fix! All survivor perks should just disable when any survivor dies! This'll encourage players to be more altruistic and help their team! Please, BHVR, throw
killerssurvivors a bone here and make this happen, for the good of the game!Signed,
A totally real Dwight main'
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it went from bad to absolute unplayable trash...
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I think a change in mindset might be appropriate for the game designers. Instead of trying to punish a certain playstyle by nerfing an already weak perk, I think you could instead benefit from trying to encourage players to do the right thing by offering them an additional bonus if they manage to get a late unhook or if they manage to get a 4-man escape. Something substantial that would actually make people want to try and be altruistic.
As it stands currently, there really is no incentive at all to stay and try to get an unhook during the end-game collapse, especially in solo queue. You get an additional 7k points just for escaping and with the devs saying they only count an escape as a win, regardless of chase duration or points accumulated in other areas, why would you risk dying for a solo queue teammate? I just think a shift in focus and mindset from the game designers regarding what constitutes a win and what behavior you are trying to encourage is necessary.
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Wake Up nerfed before Nurse
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didn't BHVR staff make it already obvious that they didn't make this change for the rate of perk usage reason
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Nurse literally got hard nerfed quite many patches agoz welcome to 2025.
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Do we even need Wake up if 3 or 4 survs are still alive like we won?
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Chile…
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Sorry but this rationale is absolutely redundant given Soul survivor exists. Also, I thought it was BHVRs stance was ‘players can be as selfish or altruistic’ as they want? Even if players are choosing to use WU and SA means you’re going into a match essentially with two perks. You’re not even guaranteed to survive that long so may not even get any use.
Honestly flip flopping from a buff to doubling the efficacy to nerfing by half, not even reverting it to what it was before the last buff, is not a great look. Especially in the current climate of the game.
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I don’t really see griefing Survivors using Wake Up.
The only time I see it is against actual gen rushing 4mans where one or maybe two people will have it. These changes baffle me considering that these are pretty much the only teams that benefit from these changes.
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Seriously though. Do BHVR really think we have any degree of control over our team mates? I can't control what perks my team mates bring, I can't force them to do gens, I can't make them learn tiles and loop for longer than 10s. Not to mention, in this game altruism tends to go hand-in-hand with dying (I would know because I'm way too altruistic for my own good). But somehow I'm supposed to ensure all my team mates are alive in endgame just to get some value from my perk? It's impossible. And they couldn't even just revert it to what it was before, they had to actually nerf it even further.
There is a massive disconnect between the devs and the playerbase. BHVR are completely out of touch with the state of survivor in this game. I've always suspected it but this is just proof.
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I’m honestly speechless. They took one of my favorite perks and gutted it completely.
We might as well nerf Left Behind and Sole Survivor into oblivion next.
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then why not just leave it as it was? and if they wanted to buff it, why not just increase the numbers a bit to make it more attractive? did they have to add such a pointless token system?
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Just rework them completely.
I loved Wake Up, but they completely gutted it for the sole purpose of Sole-Survivor existing. Behavior has an odd way of buffing perks, but then completely rendering them useless -- Calm Spirit for example.
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Wake Up can go back to 50%, Sole Survivor needs the rework as it’s main function is around other people dying, it’s unhealthy and a situational perk at the same time. These changes are so out of touch and it’s honestly embarrassing as no one asked for these changes.
But it’s BHVR, nothing new here.
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Remember Me being buffed recently but Wake Up being obliterated also, it’s like a sixth generator at this point, that’s what really silly for me.
Jokes aside, I like your idea on everyone seeing the gates, I wouldn’t mind it being 25% again for that bonus being added.
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Yep, Remember Me's old version is 16 seconds and now with the new proposed buff it'll be 30 seconds if full hooks.
Yet Wake Up! deserves a nerf? OK. It's wild and completely out of touch as I actually liked running it with Resilience, especially with the state of how the game is where people DC. I duo-que at times and I have randoms killing themselves on hook or dcing, so let's nerf a perk that objectively gets worse due to the go next crowd.
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I thought the former dev's answer on reddit about asymms and why they fail was very telling. The impression I got was that the survivor role was more or less meant to be fodder, a conduit for someone else's fun. Any restriction on someone's ability to ruin the game for 4 people is an attack on the killer's agency. And it's downright arrogant to think that DbD's flaws are actually features.
It's out of touch. They still to this day treat the game like a survival horror game. For the most part, that's not how the playerbase approaches it. You have players approaching it like a PVP game when it's still being developed as a survival horror game where one side is supposed to lose simply because they queued for the wrong role. You end up with a massive disconnect between the way the game is developed and the way it's actually played.
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did they forget about the stupid goalie build people can run with Remember Me, No Way Out, and NOED, where you pop one exit gate immediately and camp it?
if this goes live, the killer can instantly open a gate when the last gen pops, and if no one touches the other gate handle within TEN SECONDS, the end game timer will run out before the other gate can be finished.
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Oh wow, I didn't even know that was a build in all honesty. 😂
But yeah, it's just a redundant perk change just for the simple fact of opening a gate fast.
To me, DBD is about synergy and if someone wants to dedicate their entire build to opening a gate then they should be able to do that. Same for your goalie killer build, but even then I would argue that's completely broken. I haven't seen the build myself, however luckily lol.
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This change has big "Tell me you don't play Solo Q without telling me you don't play Solo Q" energy for me. Before Wake Up! was a decent plan B perk with potential benefits for the rest of the team, but now it's not even going to be that.
I'm worried that Sole Survivor might be next up on the chopping block. Without it, I honestly don't think I would have escaped from the nightmare of infinite Ghostface MMR, where the Survivors don't seem to know why BHVR put generators in the game.
I'm also kinda worried that more and more casual players will be pushed away with some of the recent changes (see the nerf to Distortion). Casual players, I assume, are much more likely to Solo Q and taking perks like Wake Up / Sole Survivor / Left Behind into trials are often their only realistic shot at escaping. Limiting solo playstyles and attempting to push us all to be altruistic team players 100% of the time might cause a portion of the remaining player base to either leave the game entirely or to finally bite the bullet and SWF up, with all the imbalances that another swf on comms brings into the difficulty of balancing DBD.
The most frustrating thing for me is that it also ignores the fact that you don't even need DLC perks to play hide and seek all trial. You can bring a key with a hatch offering and Left Behind, locker hop (if necessary) to avoid aura reads, repeatedly drop and pick up your item to avoid getting crows and urban evade around the edge map. If you really want to play that way, there are no perk nerfs that can stop you.
It's clear to me that DBD is designed to be a sort of but also sort of not team game with incomplete information for both sides and doing things like buffing SWFs and Killer aura reading is steadily eroding that. In the end, I worry we'll end up with a super sweaty game that promotes only a narrow set of viable playstyles (e.g. aggressive, altruistic swfs on comms that can loop for days vs a handful of Killers that can get the best from their aura perks or weaker Killers that run quad slowdown and/or adopt tedious playstyles just to remain competitive). I'm not sure anyone really wants that.
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because the whole basic concept of perk is awful so why not just take care of something that makes selfish use very viable?
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some people are suggesting a compromise or better change to wake up, but i just don't understand why it needs to be changed at all. it was fine before, didn't really see anyone complain about it, and i genuinely haven't seen any of these wake up rats that are apparently a problem now. I'm actually shocked they didn't go after sole survivor first, if this is such a big problem.
honestly though, why is the answer for solving selfish playstyles always nerfs, instead of further incentivizing and encouraging altruistic playstyles? nerfing any perk that could be used in a selfish way will just add even more useless perks to the roster. it's clearly not solving anything, it's just pushing players to use the few perks that are actually worth bringing, leading to a stale meta.
the devs should address the actual problems for once, instead of slapping a bandaid "solution" like this on every issue. they could start by not advertising their game with the idea that teamwork is optional and you can choose to play selfishly, if that is not how they want people to play. they could give survivors better bp gains for getting end game saves, healing and taking hits for their teammates, getting all 4 out, just being altruistic in general. they could give survivors a better tutorial that teaches new players the various ways they can help their team, and encourages them to work together to escape. there are many things they can do besides putting perk after perk on the chopping block and pretending they did something meaningful.
you can take the perks away from the "rats", but you're still left with a rat problem. they don't just go away because the perks that aid their playstyle were nerfed into the ground. the devs need to find a better way to encourage the people with these playstyles to be more altruistic and help their teammates, instead of just gutting the perks they use.
wake up should just be reverted, and the devs should stop fixing things that aren't broken.
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This is a really bad change, it would be better if you just left Wake Up alone and didn't make any changes. The current state of Wake Up is a useful but niche perk, it works for both solo and swf players. This is ultimately a large nerf to the perk because BHVR has worked to balance the game with killers having a 60% kill rate, it's extremely unlikely players will actually get that 50% speed increase unless they are in a coordinated 4SWF. In solo queue the only way you'll see this is if either the killer is letting everyone live or matchmaking did so bad that a underskilled/new killer was matched against veteran players. In solo queue you can't stop the killer from quickly tunneling out a teammate and if it's a strong/fast killer that speed burst is needed even more when there are less survivors around to help distract when it comes to opening the exit gate. This is not going to increase the use of Wake Up, if anything it's going to decrease this already low use perk.
Using "selfish players" as an excuse falls flat when matchmaking for survivors doesn't take into account whether or not they played selfishly but instead it's just if they escaped or died. If you want to discourage selfish play then do it with matchmaking/game mechanics that actually have an impact on changing people's selfish behavior, not killing niche perks that were useful for those that don't play selfish.
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Alright, but can you make it so Bots don't do the exact same thing? A bot teammate in end game is dangerous, since they will 100% go for the exit gate, open it and escape immediately. There should be something in place that makes them prioritise a save or distracting the killer. But then again, bots will be bots and they will run away at the first hint of a terror radius, so … good luck with that.
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"and i genuinely haven't seen any of these wake up rats that are apparently a problem now"
It's not just you, most of us haven't seen them. Literally never heard about them until this dev update. It's just the same usual minority that have never played solo survivor assuring us that these boogeymen really truly do lurk within our games so rest assured the devs aren't pissing on us, it's just raining.
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It's funny that they are worried about survivors being selfish while the win condition for survivors is only Escapes according to them since they introduced MMR.
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For real. While opening gates immediately isn't exactly optimal, it's usually a pretty good idea. But why on earth do they just immediately leave afterward?
Why not just program it so bots will aggressively attempt to unhook or even hooktrade for any player that's hooked during EGC instead of leaving? That would make for a way better experience for the people that stuck around without DCing. And who cares if the bot gets instadowned or it fails trying to save? That would be more fun and exciting for the remaining survivors and the killer.
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yeah, it's strange that i've not heard any complaints about this whatsoever until they updated wake up...now suddenly, there's enough people using it to wait for their teammates to die to warrant nerfing the perk? why was this never even a topic of discussion before now? if it's happening often enough to justify the nerf...then why are so many people not running into these supposed rats at all? i play mostly solo queue and experience my fair share of selfish teammates, but have never once run into one of these wake up users. I didn't wanna say it's all bullshit, but it smells like it to me.
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This is a really bad change, it would be better if you just left Wake Up alone and didn't make any changes. The current state of Wake Up is a useful but niche perk, it works for both solo and swf players.
this perk at it's pre-PTB and early PTB version literally has no direct nor indirect benefit for the team because gate opening speed isn't something your team really needs when yall are alive at all. How is it a bad change then?
This is ultimately a large nerf to the perk because BHVR has worked to balance the game with killers having a 60% kill rate, it's extremely unlikely players will actually get that 50% speed increase unless they are in a coordinated 4SWF. In solo queue the only way you'll see this is if either the killer is letting everyone live or matchmaking did so bad that a underskilled/new killer was matched against veteran players.
no, this is a nerf to self-centered aspect of the perk. While i can agree that gate opening speed is something of no use to team, that just further proves the point that perk concept is very flawed and has no place in this game.
In solo queue you can't stop the killer from quickly tunneling out a teammate and if it's a strong/fast killer that speed burst is needed even more when there are less survivors around to help distract when it comes to opening the exit gate. This is not going to increase the use of Wake Up, if anything it's going to decrease this already low use perk.
tunneling is something you literally can counter individually without your team and it's absolutely something you can deal with in soloQ. Wake Up again has no use there other for acting like "i give up", hopping into a locker and waiting for killer to close the hatch.
This is not going to increase the use of Wake Up, if anything it's going to decrease this already low use perk.
the point of this change is to discourage it's only popular use, and even if perk gets picked less, it will be a good thing for game health.
Using "selfish players" as an excuse falls flat when matchmaking for survivors doesn't take into account whether or not they played selfishly but instead it's just if they escaped or died. If you want to discourage selfish play then do it with matchmaking/game mechanics that actually have an impact on changing people's selfish behavior, not killing niche perks that were useful for those that don't play selfish.
umm...no? Selfish players aren't excuse at all, they are the justified reason for change since, as i already said, gate opening speed as a self-centered aspect has no place in this game. In fact, you are just further proving the point why it's good for Wake Up to be nerfed in it's self-centered aspect.
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"Hey, we put you in a lobby with survivors who don't have their monitors turned on. They're going to die before two gens pop. Don't be selfish."
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I dont think you guys realized why it even could be problematic. It was sole survivor. Also you guys gotta realize how stacks works If you start off at full power and lose 12.5 % you're being punished for other survivors dying, not rewarded for them living. Also the power/impact of the perk is not very strong to begin with and you want to make the worse case scenario when using the perk even worse. Exit gate already spawn on the same side of the map 66% of the time which favors killers inherently
It takes 20 seconds to open a gate. So if we are doing it 12.5% faster its 20/1.125 = 17.77 seconds | 25% 20/1.25 = 16 seconds | 37.5% 20/1.375 = 14.545 | 50% 20/1.5 = 13.333 seconds. The buff is nice but i also think it should have a bit more impact. Survivors dont even make it to the exit gate a majority of the time and you want to make it so its bad unless you are running a swf group that can keep each other alive easier. It really should be 50% opening speed. And nerf/ remove the effect of sole survivor. If for some reason 50% is too strong which it isnt at a later date I'd like to see it go to 25% + 25% if there is another survivor alive.
I would also like to see the aura changed from while opening gate to within X meters(24 probably) of the gate/ this gives survivors a constant beacon of hope instead of something they could miss in chase solo que needs this as swf can tell each other where to go.
Sole survivor needs a rework anyway heres my idea 1 survivor dead = +100% or 150% healing speed, 2 survivors dead = +75% gen repair speed, 3 survivors dead = scratch marks and blood disappear 200% faster and immune to screaming and aura reading. (also nerf/remove exit opening speed) (personally id also like something like more likely to find keys at 3 survivors dead but that could be problematic)
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I’m not gonna lie, this change to Wake Up has left a sour taste in my mouth and I’m not sure if I’m checking out this new update or not. There’s no logic behind this change and there’s also no way you can sit and try to convince us that this is a ‘buff’ or a healthy change. The 25% opening speed was useful for both me and my teammates. I’ve played with plenty of people who have came straight to my exit gate when they’re being chased as they can see me opening it. It’s also perfect for when my teammates decide they aren’t playing the match with 5 gens remaining. Why shouldn’t I be able to get extra BP for opening a gate? It’s like you don’t want people playing in solo queue as almost every change you make completely shits on those of us that do.
I don’t think I’ve seen anybody complain about the current Wake Up, or ask for it to be buffed. From my experience it wasn’t being used for ‘selfish’ reasons anyway. What’s stopping people just hiding all game with a key and Left Behind? If people want to play selfishly, they will. Wake Up wasn’t even the most effective way to do it, which makes this whole thing even weirder…7 -
Yeah, I have no idea where the idea of "rat" gameplay came from. Just a random notion that people tack onto survivors for outplaying or surviving end game collapse.
Precisely, there are four selfish perks (five if you count Urban Evading randoms who do it 24/7) that are much more problematic to a solo-queue game than a Wake Up gamer. Could leave it as it's base value and just rework Sole-Survivor or make it not have synergy (I wouldn't like this either) with it.
First it was Distortion, now it's Wake Up with "rat" playstyles. Barely anyone uses the perk and most people who use it from my experience of seeing them typically play normally and always rush to the gate to open them from the perk that they bring.
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It’s very bizarre. You could already combine Wake Up + Sole Survivor to open gates 75% faster which was almost a guaranteed escape depending on the gate spawns and yet, I virtually saw nobody talking about it? I know this change won’t matter to a lot of people as nobody really uses Wake Up, but it was truly one of my comfort perks and it along with We’ll Make It never leave my builds. It’s funny how it’s being labelled as a selfish perk, but one of the few people that use it consistently (me) also run it with We’ll Make It and constantly die to get survivors out during end game. I only really got use out of it if my teammates were being chased when I was opening a gate or if I was the last survivor left standing, which isn’t that uncommon in solo queue when people are currently giving up at the slightest inconvenience.
Their reasoning for the change would somewhat make sense if there wasn’t already more effective ways to play like a ‘rat’ - but as you’ve also mentioned, there are already perks in the game that are much more effective. It’s almost impossible to counter somebody who brings a key with Left Behind. Especially if they choose to hide all game / hide the key in case you bring Franklins.Another thing that I find baffling, is the fact they’re trying to make Wake Up more ‘altruistic’ as if lobbies aren’t full of people bringing perks that only benefit their self. I bring We’ll Make It in all of my games and it’s rare for me to see a random teammate with it. Heck, it can be hard enough just getting a teammate to heal you.
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- I don't understand, why did Devs nerf Wake up? I haven't been from the forum for a while. Can someone explain it to me? 🤣
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Typical Behavior incompetence when it comes to buffing perks, I'm surprised they haven't went back to Calm Spirit - especially with Thrill of the Hunt changes.
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The problem with altruism in solo-queue is that most people aren't going to play altruistically or even bring perks that benefit the team. Hardly anyone uses Leader unless they're playing with restricted perks like comp teams typically do, so pushing altruism onto solo-queue is redundant. Reminds me of the change when they want to make cooperative healing slower when they introduced the Boon: Circle of Healing changes.
I wouldn't say I was a huge user of Wake Up! but I liked combining it with Resilience and I am never a selfish gamer even with the "selfish" perk. I literally had a game about a year ago where I played Quentin (Sprint Burst, Distortion, Wake Up, and Resilience) and I 99'd both doors for my team to escape with a permanent tier 3 Myers and him chasing Kate near the exit gate. I ended up dying, but my team all lived and people need to stop stereotyping perks or outright strawmanning people that use perks to help their survivability in a game of Dead By Daylight.
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Well how about killers stop qq swf swf swf cause they are playing as a team.
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