Wake Up NERF?!
Comments
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I hope clairvoyance and left behind end up with the same treatment, I'm tired of having a survivor that doesn't do anything but wait for the team to die.
I don't think it was a bad idea to nerf it like this but they went a bit overboard and nerfed 3v1s and 2v1s as well, which removes a great part of it's utility
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They could've easily made Wake up a 'non-selfish' perk. All they had to do was add one line of text that said
"If you are the last survivor remaining in the trial, this perk deactivates"
Adding this stacking/reverse stacking thing just makes the perk punishing for no reason. All 4 survivors making it to endgame is pretty rare, most 'balanced' games have it as a 3 v 1 when the last gen is done meaning you're stuck with 37.5% faster gates which isn't bad obviously
But it's still a nerf from the flat 50% you would've had, for no reason.
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With all due respect, the PTB exists for players to go out of their way to test the limits of certain changes with little regard for the outcome of the game (since nothing saves and carries on to live). In other words, people's actions in PTB are not necessarily a reflection of how things will play out in your average live games. A grace period would be appreciated by average players instead of this seemingly increasing trend of perk buffs not making it out of PTB because of something that may or may not even happen.
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Eh i really don't think they care about survivors too much. But they are at point they can't nerf survivors anymore.
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xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Fire Up has the same problem as DeadLock, they are super easy perks to counterDeadLock is an engine that the killer doesn't zone 99% of the time
Fire Up can be done by 2-3 gens in almost the same timeFire Up needs to start with 1 token, this is really urgent and nobody is talking about it
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Unnecessary is what this is.
No one asked for this, it didn't need this. Please stop nerfing random perks that only occasionally see the light of day BHVR
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i dont understand who is making this decisions,this perk became more garbage than before.if anyone from bhvr is reading-let me explain to you why this is garbage.IF all 4 survivors are alive i dont need this perk anymore,and if i am the only one left ,this perk is a waste of slot for this 12% speed XD XD XD I SWEAR if i was responsible for the perk changes , the game would be in far better state 1 000 000% and the guy/people resposible for the perk changes need to be fired
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Players who want the value from playing more selfishly are just going to use Sole Survivor's exit gate opening speed instead, which is actually an unhealthy perk because it ONLY gives value as a solo player when you have no teammates remaining, and if anything Sole Survivor is the perk that shouldn't have 50% opening speed, not Wake Up.
I understand if the design intention with Wake Up is to have it be more powerful for altruistic players than selfish ones. However, while this proposed opening speed scaling change does tone Wake Up down for more selfish players, it also makes the perk less impactful in situations where players are still working as a team but only make it to endgame with 2 or 3 total survivors alive. This is not necessarily an indicator of selfish play, and it seems unnecessary to nerf the perk for those scenarios. Wake Up does nothing if you die before the gates are powered, so it deserves to have a fairly high bonus if you do complete all the generators. Survivor endgame perks in general should be fairly powerful with this in mind (and I would argue Adrenaline, Hope, and No One Left Behind are all strong enough with that in mind, but Wake Up with this nerf is not).
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Am speechless.
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I tested fire up in the ptb, believe me. Its actually really nice. I know the numbers don't seem to seem like it, but it starts to add up really quick. New fire up, at 5 stacks, gives you:
- Buffed Dark Arrogance with no penalty
- Buffed brutal strength
- Buffed pickup speed, which can seriously throw up saves and saves more time than you'd think.
I know that most people are conditioned into believing its a bad perk, and before maybe it was. But the new one is surprisingly lethal, and I say that from experience.
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Then it should be buffed to 15% for every survivor alive
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You guys did a fantastic job. Will you nerf Vigil while you are at it?
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100% exhaustion will be removed from Vigil, because SWF will/are abusing it with Head On stuns and stuffs
Mark my words2 -
you don't need gate opening speed when your team is alive, that's true. But perk as it is is plain unhealthy because it's only popular use would be same as one for Sole Survivor.
ahh yeah, let's twist things up and make up our reasons why people are giving up so that it suits the us vs. them agenda and not the actual burnout of players who don't wanna take a break and find another game to play during that break.
Besides, aren't yall tired of the same "survivors keep getting nerfed" nonsense when you literally recently got a strongest survivor perk? Not to mention various other changes and perks.
a perk is unhealthy if:
- it encourages unsportsmanlike kind of gameplay (Knock Out: bleedong people out intentionally; Wake Up/Sole Survivor: doing nothing all match and waiting for the gate))
- destroys soloQ while doing next to nothing against SWF.
Knock Out is undeniably very healthy for the game, it only makes you win against soloQ teams because they have no info of their downed teammates when this perk is in play, while SWFs easily play around the perk. And as i already said, it provokes bleeding people out, which is extremely unsportsmanlike.
Same with Wake Up, provokes extremely selfish gameplay where one survivor does nothing and waits for the team either to hold onto 3v1 themselves and escape so that survivor can do it too, or escapes as the only person alive.
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Which is funny since the game is still advertised to potential buyers as one in which playing selfishly is just fine lol
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The less perks for ratty teammates the better. In a game that highly require coordination u shouldn't be incentivize to play for yourself as much. They should've gave it a stronger effect since it's a perk that only do something when you winning now. Hopefully left behind and sole survivor next
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You weren't the only one who tried it, I've also tried it with Brutal Strength and Bamboozel and I'll just leave this here, I hope you support me because it's really what it needs.
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I get what you guys were trying to do here. But there's something wrong about an end game only perk being strong when survivors have done extremely well (nobody has died), and being much weaker when it's been a huge struggle to get the gates powered (two or more survivors have died). The perk should be stronger when survivors have struggled, not the other way around.
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There already is a greedy solo escape perk that increases exit gate opening speed, its called sole survivor
we don't really need 2 when we can have a team oriented one that doesn't require 3 dead teammates
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I'm sorry, but I really can't support this. It's clear you're new and simply unsure of how to utilize perks like fire up. Sure, 2-3 gens may pop quickly at the start of a match, but then you know the rest of the gens have little to no progress, and you've just gotten a large spike in power the survivors were not expecting. I've had moments with current fire up at 2 stacks where I catch a survivor out because i vault just 4% faster, or because i broke the pallet a bit faster than they were expecting, or denied a flashlight save because fire up, at a single stack, had thrown off their timing.
The point of fire up is that it starts doing nothing, and at the end of the match you have massive buffs. You're trading early game power for late game dominance, in a way where you're not going all in like NOED or Blood Warden.
If you're in a situation where 3 gens have popped in quick succession with a 4th close to popping at the start of a game, you have done something truly wrong and a buff to fire up would not change that.
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I have more than 2,000 hours in the game, it is not my fault that you get baby survivors, this improvement will continue to be useless and we will continue to see 4 anti-gen perks as always even if the buff I ask for is done.
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I get survivors who have probably put 2000 hours into a single character let alone full game time, I'm not sure theres a fair comparison to make here for you in that realm. My "gen slowdown" is securing hooks so quickly that I can usually have 2 people on hooks constantly through the game; I do not take the easy way out like people who stack slowdowns.
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Oh so it works pretty much how I said it should, it's kind of win more perk now but I like it thematically at least.
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It’s meant to be a Freddy buff.
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I don't agree that Wake Up is a greedy solo escape perk at all. When all 4 survivors are alive is when you need the addtional gate opening speed the least and the more are dead the more you need it which is why Sole Survivor also has it. They just made 2 makes that are too similar just like they did with Call of Brine and Overcharge.
In a 2v1 you aren't letting someone die on hook because you brought Wake Up. In a 2v1 you are letting everyone die because unhooking is asking for a 4k-slug. With that change Wake Up becomes a "win more"-perk as in really ######### useless.
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Ah, some of the replies in this thread are golden.
I couldn't believe what I was reading when I saw the notes. Truly jaw-dropping comedy.
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To be fair, Quentin is actually quite an altruistic character in the NoES 2010 remake... so even if the change isn't great, the spirit of the change does make sense for his character.
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You’re going to start seeing people claim that Freddy’s gate teleportation should deactivate once hatch is closed. If you don’t want killer nerfs, why make the game unreasonably harder for survivor.
I get that some people may assert that my argument shows as evidence that people use WakeUp selfishly. However, even if you’re playing as a teammate, you may still wind up where it’s just you, the killer, and it closed hatch.
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I think that change makes the perk a "win more" thing. It won't help when you really need it.
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This is a solid argument.
Perhaps making it a token perk that charges off of healing and/or unhooking allies might be a good way to do it?
Agreed, it's not likely to ever be useful when you actually need it in its current form.
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Nerf the already mid perk that is only ever used by teammates who play for hatch/gate. Yep
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One also needs to remember that as an endgame perk, it holds no value until endgame. It’s an otherwise wasted perk slot.
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what i want to know is what's the point of having a PTB? nobody from the community even got to test this change before it went to live. so much for valuing community feedback.
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Make it 20% flat and additional 5% for every survivor alive. I think it will be good middle ground.
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Base 25%. Adds an additional 8% for each teammate still alive.
Unless at least 25% is base kit, this perk will NEVER see the light of day.
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Wait, theres a gate teleport??
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Not basekit. It's the purple addon Class Photo, it lets you teleport to gates and you also see survivors opening gates if they're asleep. Asleep survivors working on a gate get a debuff warning for it though.
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Yes but how often do you get even 3 survivors to gates? This just goes back to 25% in most matches. Now if there was a hidden stat of "Increases the gate opening speed of ALL survivors alive" sure but this is a straight up nerf and no one was gonna use the 140% gate opening build outside of the first day of launch.
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This is the best thing I’ve seen today 😂 agreed
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Oof, thats pretty bad for when the hatch is closed indeed
Might as well the game just sacrificed the survivor to not waste anybody's time
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True, but then they would have one more tool to do that. I think the devs just wanted to avoid it.
I don't agree with the logic behind this decision, i'm just trying to understand it.
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Now thats a fair point of comparison, have it increase the less survivors that are alive, but less solo. Lets say 50% per killed survivor but also decrease back to 25% if you are alone.
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????
This is so bizarre??? I genuinely can’t fathom what compelled this change.
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You're not beating the Wake up + Solo surv allegations now lol
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It seems that someone here doesn't like the fact that survivors are actually rewarded for reaching the end-game, since after the nerf of Adrenaline (the perk no longer activates if you're on the hook, surreal stuff btw), they've now dedicated themselves to destroying another perk which is already pretty mediocre in this case.
At this point just block the exit gates until the killer kills all 4 survivors if that's what you want.10 -
The rationale of this change doesn't make sense.
If people are going to use this perk for selfish reasons, it's far better to have them run Wake Up, which might end up helping their team in the event the gates are powered, than Sole Survivor, which will do absolutely nothing until they're the last one alive.
Even in the event that they're both stacked, then there's still Wake Up to fall back on as a potential boon for the team, with this, these types of players are going to stick to Sole Survivor and Left Behind which have absolutely zero altruistic use.
Nerfing a mid perk to make it less effective is not the way to go about this. Tunnelling is already very good, and having a perk get immediately less effective if a Survivor is tunnelled out is terrible, especially considering that the effect is situational to begin with.
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They have completely gutted one of my favourite perks. Why couldn’t they just leave it in its current state? It didn’t need to be any faster than 25% and it certainly doesn’t need this current change. Why nerf an already underused perk? I virtually never see it being used unless I’m the one using it.
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Who asked for it to be changed in the first place though? Do you realise how often teammates give up on first hook and doom the match from the start? Having Wake Up at least gave me a chance of getting an exit gate when the killer finds the hatch before I do. The current 25% speed didn’t need a buff or a nerf.
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So why not just revert it to it's original state then? Why is the solo value now worse than it was before the buff in the PTB?
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If BHVR wants to disincentivize this selfish playstyle, then can Sole Survivor also be evaluated for a potential nerf or rework?
Because I think all the perks that help enable this selfish playstyle should be nerfed or reworked.
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