Revert Wake Up, Rework Sole Survivor
Wake up in its current form helps your teammates and the individual when it comes to opening exit gates and knowing the locations of the exit gates.
Why are we nerfing Wake Up when sole survivor exists in its current state? Sole Survivor incentives players to give to on their team, letting their teammates die so they can get perk value. This is an unhealthy design and should be changed.
Please reconsider the change to wake up and instead rework some of the unhealthy perks in the game, thank you.
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Sole Survivor should give a 5-10% gen speed bonus for every dead Survivor on top of it's current effects.
It'd still be the final girl perk but it'd also be more effective in close games and tunnelling situations, and wouldn't be purely selfish.
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it would be better if sole survivor was nerfed on top of wake up being nerfed. It eventually turns into permanent distortion, and distortion was nerfed because people were using it to excessively hide.
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I agree. Sole Survivor and Left Behind should both get reworked. Perks which only have value as the final survivor/for selfish playstyles are not healthy for the game. It's very discouraging for other survivors and there shouldn't be perks that solely encourage/benefit this playstyle. Wake Up was perfect at 50% on the PTB and the nerf it got goes beyond only punishing that playstyle, it makes the buff compared to the previous 25% version less impactful in a 3v1 and completely nonexistent in a 2v1.
I would be okay with making Wake Up only activate if all the generators are finished (ie. not if the gates are powered by closing hatch) as long as it remains at 50% in all scenarios when it's active. If you finish all 5 generators and reach endgame then the perk should be strong no matter what, it does nothing the entire match until that point.
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correction a few people used it to hide excessively while others who knew were not good at chase were using it to do generators and not be found by the killer. And before you say "oh you are just ######### survivor go get good" do you really preffer a dead teammate than a teammate that does gens?
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I mean if we are going down that route we also have to delete keys from existence since they are mostly used selfishly. And then we might as well remove hatch because lets be honest some people just play for the hatch. Maybe also they should change their steam page description to "forced team game" instead of "survive together or alone" Sorry but it feels unfair to remove playstyles and force only literally one playstyle. If we are gonna go that route for survivor then we must remove killer playstyles too honestly.
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I'd rather prefer teammates that aren't sandbagging their team with their selfish Wake Up + Sole Survivor + Left Behind build, where they decided to be selfish before the game had even started.
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Nah, don't touch the keys. I just started using Blood Amber and Prayer Beads.😭
But yeah, I agree it's really not problematic at all and just rework selfish perks. I have seen people talking about how people would lobby dodge these selfish perks, but if they actually did something to benefit the team — as DBD is a team game, we wouldn't have this issue.
Wake Up was fine the way it was, either revert or keep it the way it was. Rework the four other selfish perks that enable stealthing around and waiting for people to die. Don't touch the keys as I like to mind game with the killer. 😂
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If anything, I would like to see keys get some kind of additional effect that makes them more useful throughout the match without addons (either aura reading or something else, doesn't matter).
I assume by 4 perks you mean Left Behind/Sole Survivor/Clairvoyance/Low Profile?
Left Behind + Sole Survivor I agree.
Clairvoyance can be fixed by just removing the hatch aura and replacing it with something else (perhaps reveal auras of other survivors?), maybe also increase the duration to make up for it, but it doesn't need a full rework.
I actually don't think Low Profile is as problematic as the rest as while it can be used for selfish purposes it can also be used to save your team in desperate situations (especially if the killer is trying to slug everyone), since unlike Left Behind/Sole Survivor, the other survivors don't have to be dead for it to activate, just downed or hooked is enough. Occasionally I'll run Low Profile + Unbreakable + a healing perk (either Botany, Desperate Measures, or WGLF, or two of those) and I've had matches where being able to run to survivors without the killer noticing or being able to track me combined with faster healing has saved the game, especially since the no scratchmarks/pools of blood/grunts of pain lasts a full 90 seconds even if you pick someone up. Obviously this won't come into play every game, but nonetheless it is a way to use Low Profile altruistically and there's no other survivor perk that can do everything it does for as long as it does.
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You do realise those who choose to be selfish will be selfish even without those perks right? At best they will just use distortion with whatever else they choose if you remove sole survivor and left behind. So really no matter how much you nerf some selfish perks aas you call them you can't stop people from choosing to play selfishly. I guess you can just tell them they are dumb but oh well that is the most you can do honestly. I played by my strenght which was doing generators when distortion was better before. I was not selfish you just want someone to play your way instead of theirs. Which lets be honest is not really right at all you can't tell anybody how to play its their choice.
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I still think people deserve to choose how they wanna play. Even if they outright remove the perks that are considered selfish those who wanna play selfishly will just take a key then hide in a locker all game until everyone is dead. Sadly that is the case, You just can't force people out of their playstyle choice. As much as everyone here apparently hates people who just want to play hide and seek. I mean its their opinion but you can't really force others to do what you want.
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I will repeat myself again XD if people want to be selfish they will pick a key then hop lockers the entire game until everyone is dead. Even if they remove left behind, sole survivor and anything else. Although even without those you can use about half the perks selfishly. I mean Jun Jin has a perk that is literally made to be selfish by letting someone else getting hit. Her entire character is selfishness. Anyone who wants to be selfish will play like that even if you remove every selfish perk. That is how it is and even the dbd store page says so that you get the option to survive alone. They better make it bannable offense to be selfish and remove that advertisement if they want literally everyone to be playing with their team. I still think anyone can do whatever they like with their playstyle. Because lets be real here if we will remove hiding as a playstyle then we should also remove every other playstyle that could be annoying to someone else.
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also yeah you kinda completely ignored the entire point I made and you continue pointing towards the people who choose to play selfishly which is completely in their right by the way since they bought the game and the game itself says they got a choice. I will support this freedom but as I said not everyone is using those perks just to be selfish as I told you I used distortion before to do generators undisturbed which was still benefitting the entire team.
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The goal isn't to completely stop people from doing bad behaviors. The goal is to NOT ENCOURAGE people to do bad behaviors. When BHVR gives survivors perks like Sole Survivor and pre-nerfed Wake Up, it helps enable selfish behavior.
And if you want to quote official game material, the game manual says "KILLERS SHOULD DO EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO STOP THEM", when referring to survivors. By that logic, camping, tunneling, slugging, and everything else is 100% approved, because it's part of EVERYTHING.
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Not everyone that was using pre-nerfed Eruption, was forcing massively long 3-gen games, but the perk still got nerfed because some people were doing this. Likewise, it's fair to nerf perks like Sole Survivor and Wake Up, because of what some people are doing with them.
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Sooo we went from survivor problems to killer problems now okay? I mean sure I guess we can't stop killers from tunneling either. To be honest that is the strategy they use almost every game anyways. But right now we are talking about how you guys want someone to not play how they want. I guess we can just complain at best but yeah we can't do anything in both situations. People will do whatever they want. Killers would not have gone towards the tunneling strategy if the game had been balanced enough before to not warrant tunneling every game to secure victory.
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You do know when that happens nobody will use these super situational perks right if we are talking about usage that is? If we talk about selfishness still as long as keys and lockers exist there will always be people who choose to be selfish or will hide. So I wanna ask after those perks get nerfed what will be next? Will you make lockers inaccessible after you hid in them for a 1 minute will you remove keys or just nerf them? See the problem is if you start with perks you gotta continue to the end to exterminate this playstyle. Absolutely behaviour choice there. I mean they will make the wrong decision as usual. Honestly I got no idea what is the wrong decision when all decisions are wrong on all sides.
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Anyways I am done with my comments I think obviously I got my opinion that everyone should have the freedom to choose what they wanna do. After all this is a game about survival and everyone chooses how to survive or win in their own way. I can't force people to do what I want same goes for everyone else. We all choose what to do and that is it. If you hate selfish perks fair enough just dont forget most perks can be used selfishly and to name a few that you probably did not think of….. self care, botany, knowledge, self preservation, distortion still can be used, hope can be used, bond can be used, kindred, dark sense, every other aura reading perk to know where the killer is and, every single chest perk and so on. Literally any perk can be used selfishly. If you remove the perks that were specifically made for those who wanna be selfish specifically sole survivor and left behind then please get all perks out of the way. People can use so many perks for their selfish ways so that they get their teammates killed that it is hilarious. After you remove the perks which are picked most the selfish people will find other ways to survive longer.
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And Self-Preservation.
I can see your Low Profile build, but I suppose the only time I've seen it was a stealthing Ada (non-adept) so, I didn't think of slugging builds to pick people up with the perk.
I kinda forget about Clairvoyance, but I don't really see the perk in general. The only time I ever saw it get used was when you could phase through the killer with the window tech lol.
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I'm not saying that people shouldn't be forced to play selfishly, but if their argument is that people will play selfishly - why opt to change the perk that isn't selfish when there's an entirely selfish counterpart that already exists?
How are we painting Wake Up as a rat perk, yet not the other selfish related perks? I don't really mind them because I hardly see selfish perks in my time of playing DBD other than the odd Urban Evasion.
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That is true also. Behaviour is notorious for buffing and nerfing the wrong perks as usual although honestly if they did not nerf anything everything was gonna be great. This whole ordeal has happened because they decided to nerf Wake up AND HONESTLY I THINK THEIR LITTLE STORY about oh some people complained that it might get used with sole survivor is just a lame excuse at best because nobody in their right mind is gonna be complaining that much about a ######### combo that you see every 100-1000 games?
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All these survivor perks are balanced in their own right. The problem is when a few people complain that somehow everyone is using a rat build or something although that almost never happens. And honestly who can blame them right now when almost every game is a loss anyways. Or maybe the whole community wants everyone to use 4 anti tunnel second chance perks which is not a good alternative at all because it turns into a sweat fest. Pretty much not fair to try and remove hide and seek from the game as much as they hate it because it is literally part of the game to hide sometimes. Not sure why some people has it in their head that nobody should hide and everyone should play the same way because someone said so
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Yeah, I was playing with my friend that I usually duo-que and games were rough as per usual.
1-2 gens left and almost every game was a 1 person out or no one lived in general. That's why I don't understand the weakening of Wake Up to make it worsen the more people die.
I see people dcing on hook (especially those people on death hook and dcing as the entity kills them ☠️), killing themselves on hook, so let's make Wake Up that was a universal perk that could work in all situations to a more weaker SWF perk as a whole. I won't be surprised that the drop rate of the perk goes down or MORE people pair it with Sole-Survivor to get more use out of a perk that was fine before this nerf.
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yeah I just wish behaviour cared to fix all the bugs and all the perks and maybe actually play their own game. But nope I guess we won't have that anytime soon. I guess I will just play for fun. Honestly the most fun I am having when playing survivor is doing side objectives because I don't have to get tunneled for it. It is actually relaxing to have something else to do rather than gens
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Dont worry I don't consider wake up as selfish whatsoever. Others say it is selfish and I said a while ago that any perk can be used selfishly. I completely agree with you that it was dumb decision. Honestly nerfing any of the perks seems dumb they already are underused and barely see the light of day yet behaviour decides to nerf them further which feels redundant. I know sole survivor does feel good perk but imagine if you had 20 matches in a row where your entire team dies and well you decide let me use that one perk that actually rewards me if I am the last one left. It is not specifically about selfishness tbh I never have had the chance to use these perks but I would gain quite a bit of value from sole survivor since it is very easy to get to the situation of being the only one left in solo que and you don't even need to be playing for that part to happen.
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Yeah, I don't play as much unless I have friends online or I'm grinding the battle pass.
Even now, there's a bug where it shows the survivors grayed out like they're in a match lol.
Yes, I don't mind people who use selfish perks - I don't want it to seem like I'm adamantly against them as I enjoy perk variety and I always advocate for the less used perks to get buffs.
However, if their argument is to nerf "rat" playstyles, then they need to center their focus on actual selfish perks and not focus on a perk that benefits the entire team. That is what Wake Up is and like you said, any perk can be selfish. Windows of Opportunity, any exhaustion perk, even Finesse can be considered selfish perks but they provide the user with utility to keep their chases going. The Wake Up nerf is a bad precedent going forward if we're going to nerf perks that hardly get any value or use in DBD. It was already a niche perk, the change still would have been keeping its nicheness as many survivors do NOT bring perks that typically helps others.
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Absolutely agreed. It is what I said earlier. If we start fixing problems like this things are only going to get worse. It is just insane to break perks like that for no logical reason. Even looking at the specific scenario if one person lives only cause of the speed bonus it does not matter as the killer won at the end no matter what. So yeah we gotta stop breaking all perks because of one specific thing happening once in a thousand years.
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