General Discussions
General Discussions
Another Legion crybaby rant
I feel absolutely miserable playing Legion. Idk my MMR but I have 1.1k hours so I get that my pathing and time management still need significant improvement. But at the same time I don't necessarily think I'm a crap killer.
I have a generally good time playing other killers, some are even fun while intoxicated, and get good results or genuine fun matches even if no kills.
Playing the Legion just feels like a hazing ritual for masochists. Low MMR he's fun to just zoom around and harass people but whatever MMR I'm at people seem to generally just counter him so well. It's no contest unless they dc, which never helps me truly improve anyway.
It just feels like an uphill battle, I feel like the counter is too easy ig, idk. The best way I can describe it is like: Bumping with Billy feels awful, bc its suppose to. Learn to ride along the edge at high speeds and you'll raise your skill ceiling. With Legion, don't even count on a fifth hit unless it's literally handed to you. I feel punished too harshly for deciding to leave a survivor but also for committing.
Could just be me tho LOL!
Comments
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You're not wrong, on Legion you want to zoom around chaining your hits... but often this isn't the best play, because you usually don't really have time to chain them.
Often the best play is to drop your FF and just go for an M1 hit... which sucks cause you literally have nothing to help you... and even doing that often doesn't result in a hit.
You really feel the limitations of Legion against good survivors... I've been experimenting with Haste boost perks on Legion recently to try and mitigate his issues a little, since haste boosts do work in FF... unfortunately a lot of good ones also give you Undetectable (like Genetic Limits and Furtive Chase), which screws up your FF 😭😭😭
Legion life is hard... 🥺
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I remember his og trailer and idc that he's not a TF2 spy, FF is still cool af. Plus chase music mixing!? Totally Legion spirit. But omg is it hard
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run sleeping pills+mural sketch. what you want to do with legion is hit people →Go to center of the map then pick a direction to stab someone →go to center of the map → pick next target etc. most of survivor players don't know how to counter legion through bodyblocking or don't understand that standing near a pallet makes him unable to go past you and when he hits, you can stun legion as he hits to block 5th hit. few people get that so you usually just free 5th hits.
Exhaustion perks can be annoying. you can run blood echo+mindbreaker but it is a lot of perk slots to counter their perk slots.
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Those are the specific issues I go against tho. Like those add-ons don't do much bc people just camp pallets, stay injured, pre run, split up, body block, stay in deep wound, etc. Not a single game do I find someone who doesn't know what they're doing
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Even with anti pallet build they will just so happen to greed every pallet that match
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Sleeping pills are so bad though. It slows legion down to a crawl and for what?
They need to buff that addon.
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No, it's not just you. Legion are a Killer that have pretty unique strengths and weaknesses compared to the rest of the roster. I've watched a lot of otherwise experienced streamers play as them and not do so well because they don't really know how to get the best out of their power.
My main pieces of advice (maybe you know all this stuff, but hopefully this is helpful to someone out there):
Treat Legion's power primarily as an info and gen pressure tool. Use it to figure out where Survivors are and to push them off gens. Make a mental note of every gen you want to defend and just be really annoying by returning to them again and again. You don't ever want Survivors to feel comfortable sitting on the gens.
It's OK to use you power for mobility sometimes. Get about half way to your destination, then let the power gauge fill back up so you have your power again when you reach it. And don't be afraid to Frenzy injured Survivors for info if it's the right play.
Try to defend a cluster of close together gens if you can and be willing to let some go. Their power and ability to chain hits is much stronger if you play with a bit of strategy to shrink the map. Even with a bad start, you can make a bit of a comeback by defending an area of the map.
Of course, chain hits if you can to get injuries and info reads, but don't chase after that 5th hit too often or you'll lose the trial.
The Iri button add-on is a must (imho) if you find yourself going up against better Survivors often. They give you some zoning potential, more ability to end chases faster and at least you'll still have something you can do with your power if Survivors play optimally. It's good paired with the brown ruler add-on or Julie's Mix tape.
Experiment with different builds to find out what works best for you. But my favourite build right now is Enduring, Brutal Strength, Fire Up and Surge with Julie's mix tape and the Iri Button. It works very well for my chase orientated play style and most importantly of all, it's fun! Losing doesn't matter so much if you're still having fun.
And remember, you're only a Legion after all. It's OK to lose trials against Survivors that know their counter play. If the Survivors split gens perfectly on a big map, run early whenever they see you coming and have decent looping abilities, there's not much you can do against that. It's frustrating, but they're a low tier Killer. Against experienced Survivors, lots of my trials end in a 2K at best and most of my wins are probably against uncoordinated Solo Q / Duo teams. It is what it is.
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i got 50 wins with legion a row using both add-on's and running 4 slowdown perks. my build was pain res, dead man switch, thanatophobia, hex:ruin. they're not bad. they allow legion to strategically move around the map and corner survivors into getting 5th hit.
too many survivors are too bad the game if i am able to get 50 wins in a row with a c-tier character like legion. the character should probably get rework/buffs but BVHR is not exactly competent in changing killers so it is whatever.
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They need to buff legion or buff him by extension with deep wound idk man
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I guess I didn't mention that Legion is my most played, highest MMR killer. I love him, I've tried many many many different builds since release. I've watched many many many videos on builds, add-ons, etc.
I am the most comfortable with Legion, how to use power, when not to, what works best and not with his power.
It's just that his power is fundamentally the weakest in the game. Movement and harassment, yadda yards. His power should be used as a slowdown, almost like pig, but weaker.
People just seem too comfortable in the injured and the deep wound state. Pre running is too strong compared to other speedsters. Every time I play him I just keep thinking, "If i want speed, play Blight, if I want slowdown play Pig or similar, if I want injuries and info play Plague, etc.
Now that freddy got his long awaited rework, I truly and honestly feel like it's time for Legion. Ai and TP companions would be cool, but a number of other killers don't necessarily have "lore accurate" powers either. Keeping him a speedster would be fine. But he just has so much counter play to be viable in any region.
I've played native Asian servers which are infinitely more altruistic than US, but I never dared play Legion.
I can split attention between a video, or be completely drunk and have effective and not frustrating games with literally every other killers, but Legion could have my undivided attention and still have me tense with high blood pressure.
Having more than a handful of counters that activate the moment you use your power is problematic imo.
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With other killers I'm willing to say, "I'll let them reset" or "Damn that was good"
But Legion is always a different story
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i don't wanna sound rude, but Legion is that kind of killer, extremely low skill floor and ceiling, 0 lethality and Legion being that kind of killer that can do something against bad players while being terrible against any team with at least some game knowledge
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Legion is ok but needs some form of chase help/perks otherwise he'll just get looped into oblivion.
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Sounds like you've discovered what every Legion main eventually discovers - They can be a worse Killer than Trapper against a team that know what to do against them.
But I think BHVR are too afraid to buff Legion (or they don't know how to) because they know they're such an unpopular Killer for Survivors to face and are very strong at low MMR. It's probably just too risky for them to commit resources to something that could backfire as badly as the abandoned Twins rework that never made it to live.
I also think BHVR are content to have a few "training wheels" Killers for newer players who will reach their limitations fairly quickly and will then want to buy a stronger Killer that provides a similar experience (like Oni, Chucky or Blight).
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I think across, over several hundred games I can maybe count on one hand the ties and losses on legion.
Neversleep pills is how I know, used to have like 240 of them, now I have 0 and have to keep up with refreshing them.1 -
I play Legion a lot and you basically have to use chase perks.
Enduring is must have, you will often get double tap with it.
Spirit fury is also good with it.
I am currently testing Beast of Prey and seems decent.
I would suggest 2 slowdown and 2 chase perks in your builds.
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That actually makes so much sense, yo
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Neversleep pills can be fun, but makes you so slow. There are so many Legion add-ons that seem almost necessary to bring every game and things like the pills need counterweight add-ons like mural sketch. It just sucks to have to say, "dude use only this/these add-ons as a crutch bc its a necessity."
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As others have said, I like Pills and Sketch for 5th hits and in general. It makes their power feel more consistent.
It costs an Iri so it’s expensive but I like playing a lot with Hexes and Legion has synergy with Ruin+Fuming Mix Tape. Obviously you want to protect Ruin so you bring Thrill. Legion does well with Thanatophobia so I grab that too. I like Pentinemento in the last slot with this build. The final add on can be more of a toss up but I like Filthy Blade because it forces Survivors to mend longer. (in all mending scenarios btw)
Whittle map resources down and use Feral Frenzy + Fuming Mix Tape info to know if you should be defending a gen, a totem or commiting to chase. It’s a lot for even competent players to handle.
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I usually go out of my way not to camp or tunnel. But then sometimes it's a rather fun challenge and welcome change of pace to go loadoutless on one of the comparatively weakest killers in the game and try everything to win, camping and tunnelling with a vengeance. I hadn't done this on Legion in a while, so I just went for a handful of matches to see whether what was true in the past is still true currently, and unsurprisingly, it is:
Note that I almost always let the last survivor escape if I win, so those singular escapes are that.
Legion definitely is one of the very weakest killers in the game compared to other killers, they're essentially a pure M1 killer that doesn't have much of anything in the way of chase, mobility, slowdown, and chaining 5 hits to down someone with Frenzy is not something that actually happens unless the survivors mess up big time. And yet still, if you are a good killer player, you can win most of your matches as them, even without using any perks or add-ons. I will say that I was surprised to have lost (well, tied) after a few matches, in the past I usually did 20-30 matches before I either lost or just stopped. I do think MMR is a little more strict now, although I'm confident I can still keep up a 90+% winrate over 50 matches as loadoutless Legion, and winstreaks of dozens of matches. Maybe I'll put that to the test soon.
So don't despair, you are sure to have a lot of room to improve (which is a good thing, improving is a great experience and one of the most gratifying things about playing video games), and it is provably possible to improve to the point of being able to win even as loadoutless Legion against the vast majority of players. Even at the oh-so-scary "high MMR", which I know for a fact I must be at, given that I play Legion fairly regularly and almost never lose.
Now, here's a few pointers for Legion:
The one major thing Legion does have going for them is the fact that you basically get half the chase done for free, as you can injure people with ease and without real counterplay to it. But unless you are using a specific build for a specific strategy (which I will touch on later), this is where the benefit of stabbing people in Frenzy generally ends. That is to say, once you have everyone injured that you feasibly could, Frenzy after the last survivor you stabbed and manually end your power as close to them as possible - and then commit to the chase. Do not go on wild goose chases for other survivors or chase killer instincts in the far distance. Do not think that stabbing people over and over again to make them mend will get you anywhere. Sure, it might against a bad group of survivors, they'll keep mending and healing and messing up eventually, but against even only semi-competent survivors all you are really doing is wasting your own time. Frenzy injures people, that's it.
Some exceptions to this:
Frenzy can be used as a means of mobility. You'll arrive at wherever it is you want to get to just a tad sooner if you use Frenzy, particularly of course if you stab someone else beforehand that is not the target you want to be chasing. And a little extra tip: You want to lunge at the very end of your Frenzy to make just that slight bit more distance.
Frenzy can also be used to catch up to an injured survivor to close the chase distance, be it when you see them in the distance or when they have made a notable amount of distance in a chase, such as after using Lithe or the like. Or if they have used Decisive Strike on you, for that matter. You can then simply Frenzy after them and again cancel it when on top of them.
Frenzy can be used to bodyblock people in chase. So the idea obviously is to try and get in front of the survivor and cancel Frenzy then, so as to prevent them from making it to whatever pallet or window they had been running toward. You can also lunge into the pallet or window to try and block them away from it. It has to be noted however that Legion's collision in Frenzy fatigue is a bit wonky, it is not rare that survivors seemingly phase through you. This is something I had always hoped BHVR would address, alas they never have. Still something worth trying at times, especially if you have additional Frenzy movement speed.
Frenzy can be used to play around Off The Record, Dead Hard, Styptics and Syringes, for some of the most notable things. This is something you can use against med-kits and to make it easier to tunnel, where if you can tell the survivor has OTR or instead of risking them having Dead Hard you simply Frenzy them to make sure you won't have to worry about either.
Frenzy can be used for tracking. The killer instinct can be really useful just to find survivors. Have someone on a hook and see another survivor? Frenzy them and take that Frenzy back to the hook to scan its surroundings for other survivors, which you can then intercept. If there are none, it tells you you have time to pressure gens or commit to that first survivor. Looking for the survivor that just got unhooked? Frenzy someone else and scan for their killer instinct around where the hook was. There is nothing that counters this, including lockers.
Continuing with the general tips:
Having most survivors injured for most of a match does more for you than only taking half of the chase away. It's particularly good to capitalize on a hook camp, as injured survivors simply cannot unhook if you won't let them. Unless they are throwing multiple bodies at the hook, but even then it is not guaranteed, and they will also not seldom lose more than they gain from such a play. Proximity-camping is really strong on Legion, especially as you can Frenzy any healthy survivor coming in from a distance or sitting on gens in the vicinity and quickly return to the hook.
If survivors do heal, it creates a huge timesink that will regularly do more harm than good as you can injure them again with ease. That doesn't mean healing against Legion is always or strictly wrong, far from, but in general it will not be worth the time if the Legion is actually a good player creating pressure by ending chases quickly. Hook stages are accumulating, a survivor is getting tunnelled out, taking precious time to heal instead of doing gens only to get Frenzied again in those cases can break a round. In that sense pushing survivors to have to spend time healing with proxi-camping can further be beneficial.
Another way to capitalize effectively on survivors being injured for much of a match are stealth mechanics. If you can surprise an injured survivor, that's a free down. So perks like Plaything, Tinkerer, Unforeseen and Trail Of Torment are decent. The Etched Ruler add-on also does the trick. These things are particularly nasty in combination with the Stylish Sunglasses add-on that shows you the auras of mending survivors in your vicinity. When you Frenzy survivors, their expectation usually is that you'll run off after your next targets, so they'll happily start mending. If instead you cancel Frenzy out of sight, you can often catch them unawares for a free down. Etched Ruler + Stylish Sunglasses on an indoor map is great, and the exception I was talking about earlier where continually Frenzying survivors even if they already are injured is beneficial. And as with the camping thing, this can also encourage survivors to start healing, which slows down the game a lot (and which you can also capitalize on with Nurse's Calling in this strategy).
Injured survivors also cannot take hits for other survivors that are being tunnelled. If you want to kill as many survivors as possible as reliably as possible, getting the first survivor out of the match as quickly as possible is generally what you want to do. That means camping and tunnelling the first survivor you hook is your bread and butter. Frenzy can help you camp them, find and tunnel them, circumvent OTR and DH and deal with people trying to tank hits. As well as catch up to them after a potential DS.
Another thing Legion is fairly decent at is slugging, again because injured survivors can be snowballed on fairly well. One of my favourite and most-used builds on Legion has Knock Out and Infectious Fright, and follows the basic play paradigm of: If you get an Infectious proc, slug; If you don't get an Infectious proc, hook. I like to use Barbecue with this to find my next targets (and previous slugs) whenever I end up hooking, but you can really use anything in those slots, such as a chase perk like Bamboozle and slowndown perk like Corrupt or Ruin or Surge. Third Seal is also really good on Legion, as you can quickly spread the curse among most if not all survivors and start slugging. A build around Third Seal with Thrill, Undying and Pentimento can work wonders.
Another small tip: You can pick people up off the ground while in Frenzy. Not everybody knows this, and it can save you some important time.
For "normal" builds, it's the usual suspects: Corrupt, Pain Res, Grim Embrace, Dead Man's Switch, Eruption, maybe Surge. Bamboozle is also really good to have in case you encounter competent survivors. Instead of Brutal Strength use Iridescent Button - break the pallet with the vault, Frenzy after the survivor, cancel it on them/try to bodyblock them. Enduring and Fury are also really nice on Legion, particularly if you also use Julie's Mix Tape with that.
Generally good add-ons to use are Mural Sketch and Friendship Bracelet, as well as Scratched Ruler and Mischief List, all helping you utilize your Frenzy more effectively or liberally. You can do stuff like Stolen Sketch Book + Weave Attunement or BFFs + Batteries, Terminus, No Way Out, Remember Me, but most of it is just very gimmicky. The only other thing I think does deserve serious mention is Fuming Mix Tape + Surveillance, combining that with stuff like Ruin, Eruption, Oppression, Nowhere To Hide, Pop. You'll reliably find survivors as you can pretty much always see which gens they are working on, and you will accumulate a ton of regression.
Good luck out there.
Post edited by zarr on1 -
Incredible in depth guide. I'll be using many of these tips for my up coming legion games. Today I had many successful games in a row playing like I usually do. But this will definitely influence my games moving forward.
I've been watching a lot of Tatariu and I picked up swinging out of FF almost every time, which makes sense bc you're suffering the cooldown anyway. His Legion rework idea sounds great and keeps his play style similar. As cool as "lore accurate" AI teammates and TP would be, there's a notable amount of killers that don't have necessarily "lore accurate" powers anyway.
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