http://dbd.game/killswitch
Perk Tiers - time to go?
For long-time players like me, who have every character at Prestige 3 or higher, perk tiers aren't too much of an issue. However, for new players, it's probably a nightmare. And especially this year, when DBD is likely to receive a TON of new players (with the release of the FNAF chapter).
Removing perk tiers would make them much more likely to stay. The grind for new players is currently insane though. Also, having only 1 version of a perk (instead of 3) would make your coding job much easier, I assume. Creating a new perk, buffing, nerfing, reworking or fixing a broken perk would now mean you would no longer have to deal with 3 variants of a same perk, but just 1. Faster perk fixing/buffing would let you have more time for dealing with bugs etc. in general.
Comments
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You literally lose nothing by doing this. Remove the perk tiers, and the grind goes way down, for new players, long-time players, and everyone in-between. I don't understand why this hasn't been implemented. And imagine how much less work the you'd have to do by just making a perk, as opposed to making 3 versions of the same perk.
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I'm gonna be honest… I think you guys are tackling the wrong part of the problem....
As someone who started playing May 2023 (so went through the modern grind), the issue isn't really getting perks to tier 3. Once you have perks unlocked, getting all perks to tier 3 on a character is quite easy tbh. You only need maybe 3 prestiges on your chosen main and you have all your perks at tier 3, which is maybe a week of effort for even a casual player, or a month tops if they use their end of season rewards.
Where the real grind bottleneck lies, is having to get every character unlocked and then getting them to tier 1 to get their perk unlocked to appear in the web that is the problem...
To give you some numbers, I bought all the content (even the original DBD characters), but even doing that took me 1100 hours to get every perk to tier 3 on every character (both killer and survivor).
If we half that to reflect only one side, then third it to simulate removing the perk tiers as you are proposing... that's still 180 hrs+ to unlock all perks on a single character...
The thing this is what it takes now... it doesn't make a difference if perks unlock at tier 1 of tier 3, you still have to level 40ish characters to unlock their teachable perks... once you've done that then its just 3 prestige levels on your chosen character to get all shared perks on that character to tier 3...
This is the strategy to employ right now, So it's about 185 hrs to get a single character fully kitted out on the current system... and this is ignoring all Iridescent shards and paid DLC issues, which aren't affected by perk tiers really at all.
So I dont think the perks levels need to be removed... because doing so doesn't address the grind really at all, maybe for someone wanting to play multiple killers perhaps, however even then, its still the need to play all characters to P1 thats the actual bottleneck.
Upgrading perks in the shrine of secrets to t3 is pointless... that should be removed as a beginner trap IMO. The grind would be majorly lowered for a budget player if they had like 5 perks per shrine of secrets per side, with the ability to lock 1 perk for the changeover each week. That would be a change that would make a real difference to lower the grind and get player on track to completing builds they want without the huge paywall.
Post edited by UndeddJester on0 -
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/438050/perks-and-tiers-and-tiers-and-perks#latest
It is time for them to go, I have yet to see anyone fully disagree with this proposed change. If the problem is player retention… that's a double edged sword. Making it more of a grind could retain some people seeing as they have to play more to unlock what they want and some people do enjoy the grind as well. How ever some people might see the grind as a repellant. For super casual players it takes a while to get a footing and establish your characters with good perks.0 -
On top of what has already been said, perk descriptions could a lot simpler and wouldn’t require complicated writing to make three versions.
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I'd love if perk tiers were ridded of, I'd rather more rewards for prestiging, like item cosmetics/emotes/killer power effects etc
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The first big issue for most new players will be getting enough BP offerings to have the bloodpoints needed to progress.
And also, getting Iridescent Shards is a pain.
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Removing perk tiers might not solve the grinding problem for new players completely, but it should make it so much easier. And it's a step in the right direction. And then, after a couple of months of perk tiers being gone, if there still needs something to be done about the grind for new players, then the devs could tackle that as well. However, things will be clearer then, compared to right now.
Player retention is important, and it will be significantly important when a huge influx of new players happens with the FNAF chapter.
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To give you some numbers, I bought all the content (even the original DBD characters), but even doing that took me 1100 hours to get every perk to tier 3 on every character (both killer and survivor).
Not every person is going to buy every character, only whale type players do. Other than that, you don't need every perk on every character to enjoy this game or have a fun time. You are effectively scaring people away from this by saying that you need to do all these things when you don't, Why does the Grind conversation always have to be about 100% a game when the vast majority don't?
Friends of mine joined this game last 2v8 and they literally already have a surplus of bloodpoints, they looked at the Survivors, one liked Sable and then they bought Sable and now they wanna play them. What I told them is get every other character to P1 and keep playing the one they want.
BHVR likely has numbers that show even when they made the overall grind easier, the vast majority play like one character as Survivor OR a few as Killer. I doubt the vast majority is cashing in every new chapter, like I do. Besides if you are a whale player, you are gonna get all perks to T3 by the time you hit P3 anyway so im like, this matters so little.
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Well my point is, that it's not the tiers of perk that are the problem, it's the unlocking of perks in the bloodweb that makes up the grind, and that is true even if your are targetting specific perks.
You either have to unlock perks via unlocking the character and P1-ing the character, which is shards or buying them... or you have to buy the perk in the shrine of secrets, which is extremely limited and also requires shards as well.
Removing tiers doesn't address the grind at all, because levelling perks is barely any grind at all... the issue is unlocking perks you want in the first place.
If you want to remove perk tiers, OK I guess, I'm kinda indifferent to it... it reduces the long term grind once you have all characters...
However if the goal is to help new players get going with builds, this change does almost nothing to help them. A change that would help new players is drastically expanding the perks available via the Shrine of Secrets somehow and giving them a significant boost in iri shards for their first steps into the game.
Either that, or give new players 5 of a new currency that grants free purchases of perks from the shrine of secrets, that are kept permanently until you use them. That would help people actually get going with builds.
Post edited by UndeddJester on0 -
Im indifferent to perk tiers.
I disagree that this game has a grind that is in need of addressing. All the times I have discussed this here, the argument seems to be that this game does not cater to completionist players better, most players are not completionists and the kicker is that new players do not need all the perks in the game, nor do the need specific perks to have a fighting chance. What they need is to do is play the game to learn it, Simple as.
If the goal is to help new players get going with builds
This sentence I thought was interesting, yes the goal is to get new players going, but they have within days of playing a wide variety of perks so they should be going with builds. However we have a colossal social problem that everyone will say such and such perks are useless, here have my perk tier list etc, we put into new player's head that they MUST HAVE these perks, they dont.
Its also a vicious cycle, because if you use the strongest perks in this game your MMR will go up and you will face harder and harder players, which could burnout a player if they don't have skills learned first. I think the Community is doing the Community a disservice here, not that anyone deserves blame here.
I do want to say would very much support additions to the Shrine, as wells as price differences on perks that are geared towards new players.
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To be honest, I actually pretty much agree with your assessment here.
I believe you're spot on with how the community thinks about perks. My personal opinion is "meta" perks… and tbh all perks to a degree, have a tendency to build bad habits and an over-reliance on them in players if they use them repeatedly. I still condemn WoO constantly because I fervently maintain it does more to hinder a new players growth than help them.
Many players for example run exhaustion perks, but because their exhaustion perks can often get them to a point of safety, they tend to play much more recklessly than they should, and often it leads them to make a mistake that if that perk isn't available, causes them to lose, or leave a teammate in a desperate situation. To my mind you should change up your build often to ensure you are building good fundamentals of DBD across the board… it's also much more fun to keep trying new builds than trying to sweat lord every single game.
I'm also of the opinion the grind isn't that bad IF you understand the system and take a minute to think about what you should be doing.
I do feel like it would be beneficial for new survivors to have help with a better jump off point. Some changes I would promote for new player experience: -
- Better/Advanced tutorial, with a greater emphasis on finer game mechanics, such as sound ranges, basic guide to fast vaulting and looping, etc.
- Some mechanism of exploring/understanding killer powers and counterplay… maybe even a spectate a random game in progress mode for certain killers to watch what other players are doing on either side.
- Greater rewards of bloodpoints and iri shards for the first few (maybe 20) Player account levels as a jump off point.
- If not that maybe a Welcome pack sent out via the message system with a predetermined amount of points to spend.
- Better options in the shrine of secrets, maybe 5 perks per side.
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Sounds like some very good ideas and I think New Players need a better intro into the System of playing the game.
I think welcome back packages sounds like a wonderful idea, like if you have not been on for like a month.Something I want is special rules for Custom Games, idd want something called infinite mode, where pallets respawn at fixed numbers, other special rules would be that being sacrificed just puts you elsewhere in the game again fully healed or any other rule to quick heal a survivor.
The reason idd want this is that it would be sparring with a friend easier, like if you want to learn to play against or with a Killer.
Doing this would be way easier. One of a my friends wanted to be a good Deathslinger, so we agreed to not down me, but just practise shots at Mother's Dwelling. He learned pretty quick to adapt to me, it was like a super boost of experience.I think we need a new thread we sorta derailed to talk about what could be done for new players rather than topic.
Thanks for the back and forth.0
