General Discussions
General Discussions
High ping killers need to be the ones punished for their connection, not everyone else.
Comments
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Yes I agree that this would all certainly help and needs to happen. The game is massively successful and should allocate servers to more regions.
The point is unless BHVR change the way hit validation works, killers with high(bad) ping will always be at an advantage. This can lead to players that typically get low(good) ping abusing the system and exploiting it by artificially raising their ping through VPNs or other means.
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BHVR use Amazon GameLift for server hosting. There is at least two official server locations in south africa. Also Amazon GameLift supports hosting on own hardware. that means they could rent servers anywhere they want.
same goes for the middle east, that has at least one official unused location.
russia dont have an official location, but renting servers there is still possible.
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Even more of a reason to rent some there.
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“Stalwart killer defender?” LOL ok dude. How am I “defending killers” here? I literally said that high ping killers are a big problem and have made other posts in the past stating the same thing. I’ve never seen someone on this forum get so mad at other people who agree with them.
I can tell you with confidence that there’s no magic solution. When you have players with high pings on either killer or survivor side, someone is going to get screwed over. I get screwed on both sides by other players with high pings. On the survivor side, getting phantom Huntress hatchet hits or getting hit 10 ft after a window vault. On the killer side, getting stunned by pallets even though I see blood spatter and hear the “survivor hit” scream, or having survivors teleport all over the place while I’m trying to hit them. The only solution is to enforce ping limits. Don’t complain about the problem if you’re not willing to accept the only solution that will actually work. If there was another solution it would have been implemented long ago.0 -
Players should not be punished for this. While I do agree that a VPN player or someone who intentionally raises their ping sucks, there isn't really a way to detect that. Just because some people are fortunate enough to get really good ping doesn't make those people more important then those that are less fortunate.
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No other PvP game caters to those with bad ping by giving them clear advantages. Please spare me the appeal to emotion fallacies. This is a video game that millions of people play. The company has a responsibility to make it more fair for everyone. If that means adding more servers to certain locations then they need to do it. But simply having poor connection is a you problem. If you have to play in a way that’s a little more of a concerted effort due to YOUR high ping and bad connection, then you should have to. It’s what good connection survivors have to deal with right now. It makes no sense. Completely backwards logic to punish good connections.
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They just need to add a ping filter option…
I know in some places they don't have their own servers causing them to connect to other servers, but I would like the option to keep my matches under 100.
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Coincidentally enough you already outlined the exact solution: Laggy killers having to account for their latency, by getting a bit closer before lunging, aiming a bit in front of the survivor with ranged attacks, accepting overruled hits more often. Right now, only survivors have to account for latency (both their own and the killer's), by committing to pallet pulls and vaults earlier, pre-dodging ranged attacks, and accepting often getting hit in ways that are impossible from their perspective.
This would be achieved by moving the hit authority to the server instead of having it still be on the killer client. And as opposed to what people falsely claim, this would not be shifting the issue from "one side to the other" - currently, latency on hits essentially only negatively affects survivors, no matter whether that latency stems from their own or the killer's connection. In a server-authority environment, latency would affect both sides equally, and one's own latency would be to one's own detriment, not the opponent's. You would only really have to account for your own latency. Currently it's a 100-0 killer-survivor affair (well, maybe like 90-10, because there is validation for pallet stuns and Dead Hard), moving the hit reg authority to the server would make it a 50-50 affair, not a 0-100 one.
The killer latency advantage has plagued the game since its inception, but unfortunately despite saying they would want to more fundamentally reconsider on the hit reg system with dedicated servers in mind, nothing much apart from the stun and DH-specific validation has been done. I think there have been some extrapolation improvements to at least make things seem more sensible, and there is some semblance of a general hit validation system in place, but that is literally disabled unless the killer player has ludicrous latencies of 300-400+ms, and even then it works suboptimally at best.
I think one reason why BHVR refuses to move the hit authority to the server - be it by moving the entire hit reg system to it or at least having it validate all hits - is that it would put more load on the servers due to having to run hit calculations, as well as on the network budget due to requiring them to communicate hit info back and forth much more. This might pose different challenges to their programmers, that they simply aren't willing to tackle because they don't think it would actually result in more revenue, and it might also come with an increased cost for the servers, or simply having to run more servers since they can't have as many matches hosted per.
Server-authority hit systems are an industry standard, and completely commonplace in games that are much faster and more accuracy-reliant than DbD. I can't imagine doing this for DbD would be a particular challenge. The killer client-based hit system apart from generally favouring killers on latency also creates exploit space for people intentionally inducing latency on killer via VPNs and the like, lagswitching, and even injecting hit events into the connection whereby they can kill survivors without even moving.
It really should be a no-brainer to move hit authority to the servers (and should have already been back when they made the switch to dedicated servers). Maybe part of the reason why they don't is also a "let sleeping dogs lie" mentality, that they simply think people have gotten used to the unfair hit reg system as it is and the game has been as successful as it has with it, so they don't see merit in revamping this system to be more fair (or "equally unfair"), without a guarantee that it will actually increase player numbers and sales etc., and at the risk of startling tons of "Wow I didn't get that hit?! Garbage survivor-sided game!"-type complaints when killers would also get screwed by latency.
I do hope they will at the very least consider some of these things:
More server regions to decrease latencies across player pools. Currently African, Middle-Eastern and Russian players for instance all connect to German servers, regularly having latencies of 80-150+ms. And those are huge player pools.
Selectively employ peer-to-peer connections again in regions where no servers are close, whenever enough people in those regions are queueing. You could even implement an opt-in peer-to-peer model just like crossplay, where players can decide to join a P2P pool and try whether they can't find a better match there. (This could also future-proof DbD such that people can still play even if the game servers are taken down.)
Bring back killer ping indicators in the lobbies - green icon for killer pings <60ms, yellow icon for 60-90ms, red for 90+ms.
Have the existing lax general hit validation system already activate at killer pings of 90+ms.
Disable disconnect penalties for survivors if the killer has a ping of 200+ms. To account for lagspikes and lagswitching and stuff, it could be done on a "if the killer has had 200+ms for X seconds cumulatively in a trial, DC penalties for survivors are disabled" basis.
Revert pallet stun and DH validation back to their original "first-come-first-serve" behaviour where it strictly favours the player with better ping. Given how much more inconsistent these have gotten on good survivor ping, I have reason to believe that rather than the server simply looking at what arrived first (survivor stun or killer hit), it now actually does some sort of lag compensation on this, which isn't really fair when the entire hit reg system otherwise favours killers outright.
Time people out from a session if their connection isn't responsive for more than 2 seconds. Currently you can go like 10 seconds without being booted off a server, which enables lagswitching and other exploits (on survivor too).
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Amazing write up. Thanks for the input. I’ve been losing hair over some of the people spreading false info here. Loved this read thank you.
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it would mitigate, not solve the issue. The problem is that if the killer has a high and consistent ping (i.e 100 ping) he will objectively have an advantage over survivors. It's either that or the desync caused by high ping. Either way killers with consistent high pings do have an advantage.
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The game tries to over correct with some adaptive latency system that speeds people up to where IT THINKS you should be.
So some bubba could have 200 ping, be super far away, their silly lag system will over correct him forward and now you're down at a window from a chainsaw that never should have hit you.2
