General Discussions
General Discussions
Why aren't these basekit for SoloQ?
Aftercare, Kindred, Better Together or Bond.
Why aren't these perks integrated for SoloQ matches? Doesn't BHVR want to close the gap between soloQ and SWF?
Comments
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In terms of information it's pretty good at the moment with the status icons, I think it would be better to expand on that system more rather than just heaping more perks onto survivor basekit as a stop gap. I also maintain that the issue of soloQ is mostly an attitude problem, you are simply not incentivized to work as a team therefore there's no real reason for a soloQ survivor to worry about anything other than their own escape potential. Things like basekit kindred won't stop people from being selfish and stupid because that already happens when you run the perks anyway. I think it's better to look for ways to promote more altruistic playstyles, ones that encourage all survivors to try and look out for each other.
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Well, I think Bond would be simply too strong overall, but I think survivor aura reading of kindred would be good enough, but not really breaking whole balance.
I like that kindred (definetly only survivor part) would help only when survivors actually need it, but it won't play the game for you.
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I agree. Bond basekit would be too strong but Kindred would be perfect.
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To be honest, as someone who plays SoloQ for majority of my game time, I feel like auras is a lazy way of bridging the SoloQ and SWF gap. Making decisions with imperfect information is an aspect of the game I really like.
For example you can take an aura perk on a killer to make finding people much easier, but you have to forgo slowdown or assistance at loops for the privilege.
For Survivor, you can with a bit of thought and carefully paying attention, derive pretty much all the information you need just intuiting it from HUD. Auras in this scenario give more precise information, but it comes at the cost of not having anti-slug, anti-tunnel, help in chase or faster gen/heal speeds... the value of aura perks comes from the fact that at basekit your info is good, but not great/perfect.
The immediate problem with this suggestion of giving basekit auras is so many perks become immediately redundant. Empathy, Alert, Empathic Connection, Better Together, the list goes on...
However the real issue with a change such as this is giving free access to basekit auras is dumbing down the game... you can't get around this fact, you are reducing the Survivors need to pay attention and read the trial around them.
Some people may want that, as their only interest is chase... but players like myself who are much more tactically minded (and lack the raw skill/ability) find their success through more my ability to read the game. The question you're gonna have to answer, is "is dumbing down the game a good thing, and how much do you want the game to be dumbed down?". If you grant auras at basekit, you remove the skill of game sense and having to read the trial since everyone just has it at base, and thus you take away the primary skill of people like myself that allows us to shine.
The HUD to my mind was one of the best additions to this game. It is subtle enough that it doesnt guve you perfect information and sometimes you may read thw trial incorrectly, but its effective enough that you can use it greatly enhance your ability to interpret the state of the trial.
The only thing missing is there are certain effects that you need to be shown to teammates via the HUD when they are in play.
I would opt for all perks to be hidden by default, but have the option to share them when in the trial, this would mean you can show part or all of your build to teammates, or you can keep your build hidden. Since the perks are hidden by default, the benefit of the doubt assumption is this player hasn't got round to exposing their perks, or has only bothered to show the important ones.
At this point I think the info SoloQ needs is basically fulfilled, and aura perks are not a requirement, but do have their value in the game.
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Ok we get Pain Res, Plaything, Pop, Ruin at base vs SWF
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The entire game is designed around survivors being thrown together, not knowing who each other are, and making decisions with imperfect information.
The problem with the game is not that solo queue is bad, the problem is that SWF (and specifically discord) breaks the game in a way that fundamentally makes the game impossible to balance or design around the original idea of the game.
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yeah I agree, I think icons that let people know someone is in a killers terror radius , and when someone is near the hooked survivor would help a little with bridging the gap, it’s not just blatant aura, and requires game sense. If anyone needs additional information they can always put on info/aura. I’m just thinking about the solos, or anyone new that comes into the game. The game still is a large grind. I try to be cognizant that even though I have everything unlocked and at minimum sitting at p3 on survivor, not everyone does, and not everyone has the money to afford that even if I do. I can freely swap out perks moving through ranks to fit whatever I’m noticing, not everyone can. Not to mention this would be bare minimum information that again everyone but soloQ has. Should players be punished for not choosing swf? No matter which way you build you’re lacking something that everyone else just straight up has in real time. Giving them basically free kindred, free bond, free empathy, even free alert. I don’t think some icons for soloQ is a big ask. When everyone else has basically 7 due to comms, and you’re working with 4.
I agree altruism should be encouraged, but I don’t think it should be everything. If they give icons it would probably lead to more team related perks in the solo area .instead of me related perks, bc solo is a mixed bag and you’re constantly having to switch things out I know I would run them more. Anyways solos have 4 perk slots and everyone but solo has 7 because at minimum 3 come built in for them. I run bond sometimes just to keep people from making bad decisions worse. Like running into me while healing. You can use empathy to take body blocks. Perks to for breaking los, I’m not even going down in chase at times I would have now, it’s not perfect, I’m not perfect, but it does help, meaning we aren’t one step closer to going down. I’m tired of people labeling everything they don’t run as a selfish perk, because they run or have had someone run it selfishly, I could make the same arguement in return, but I’m not because it’s counterproductive, and generally believe that most perks have their uses even if it’s not something I would run.using distortion in Heavy aura? Why are you blaming? It makes sense to put it on. Im not speaking to you directly but in general due to other comments.And finally correct everyone else is still going to pull swf shenanigans that gets everyone killed, but sure the solo is the only selfish one.
Post edited by HeroLives on-1 -
You're making a valid point. The SWF is a huge problem in terms to game balance and they're a deciding factor to this whole balance fiasco.
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You also have to keep in mind that the game did not launch with SWF being an option. It was added later.
Ideally what i think needs to be done is split them up into 2 different modes. Let SWF be the "ranked" mode, and make it so the "normal mode" only allows you to play with 1 other person, and matchmaking sets it up so that its always 4 randos, or 1 team of 2 with 2 other randos. That way you can still play with 1 other friend at least, but you don't get the massive coordination that you get with a team of 4.
Then for the ranked mode, they could balance it differently like they do current game modes with different gen times, items, maps, perks, addons, whatever, and the only way to play ranked as a survivor is with a 4 stack.
Then they can have the ranked mode actually show, you know, your rank. And the normal mode is just for funsies.
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Can't argue with any of that...
Since I started playing I've always preferred SoloQ because it felt like the authentic gaming experience.
Playing with friends is fun, and I do do it time to time, but the call outs tend to make everything feel like we're going through the motions, and the only results are absolutely smashing the killer, or playing against something uber sweaty. The social aspect is fun, but the gameplay is pretty boring.
The potential problem with your ranked mode idea is it still creates this balance split, the game still has to be balanced for SWF, and most killers given the choice would prefer to play vs. Solos instead of SWF. So you'll get some who want to climb the ranks... but most would just play in unranked, and a fair few will exploit that fact to just beat up on solo's with meta.
You could try and have balance changes for both modes, but that gets messy very quickly, and most games that have done that have found its untenable.
So sadly I don't think there is a neat solution for the SWF problem.... though as I think aboitbit content creators would promote ranked as the highest levels of play, so that might help mitigate the problem a little.
The cleanest solution would probably be to inform players of certain effects being in play on that player, similar to how thing like Bite the Bullet do, on a case by case basis... such as:
- Deliverance
- Wicked
- Decisive Strike
- Autodidact
However that does require BHVR to be Johnny on the spot fir each perk... so I figured a player driven self share once the trial starts is probably an easier way to manage that.
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I always liked the idea of community cup for a ranked mode.
5 players a side, 4 survivors and a killer. You get a pool of killers to pick from for each match, the same map spawn, only 1 copy of each perk/item add-on per side, and most hook stages win.
I've also liked the idea of SWF not being allowed more than 1 copy of a perk through their team, as a standard rule. People often say "punishing SWF", but I don't see that as a punishment, I see that as a simple rule change that encourages tactically creating a team build, and making SWF more interesting overall.
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Kindred 100% should be basekit but without killer's aura
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