http://dbd.game/killswitch
The last-Survivor Mori is a failure.
When I was still on the team, I was definitely a proponent of this feature. I am no longer.
I have too many games where it ends with two of us down (one on hook, or just both slugged) and the Killer waits for one to die to mori the other.
This wasn't a problem with the old "Mori Finisher" we tried on PTB that one time, but I get nobody liked that system, either. I am not sure what the solution is, but what's happening in games with this at the moment is pretty terrible.
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All that needs to change is to allow the killer to mori once all other survivors are either hooked or slugged. The fact that killers cannot mori until everyone else is completely is what creates these waits.
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People don't mind the Mori per-say. Before this, Mori animations were liked (or at least tolerated) but now, with them happening in most matches, it got old really quick and now they're merely seen as "additional reason why the game won't end" instead of a cool cutscene that didn't happen often.
By hiding a Mori animation behind a 4k no matter the means, it automatically incentivizes people to slug for the 4k...and we all know how fun and riveting it is. It's true that it happened before already, the Finisher Mori didn't create it, but the sheer number of threads talking about it since the Finisher Mori was introduced speaks for themselves of how it got worse.
We already hear it everywhere, Killers slugging the last 2 and then waiting for one to die (either by bleedout or simply standing over the last slug after hooking the 3rd, wasting minutes instead of ending the game in seconds even when there's hooks within spitting distance) just to Mori the last, is only making people hate those animations due to them encouraging such endgames and making the game even less casual/newcomer-friendly than it already is (as newcomers/low-mmr players will see their games end in a 4k more often).
There's a reason why the dreadful basekit Unbreakable was attempted alongside the previous Finisher Mori PTB: otherwise almost every single games would just end in a slugfest. Hell, during that PTB there were more bleedout slugfest games than normal even though people could get up because Killer players wanted that animation after killing the first 2 Survivors.
[Quite frankly, it wouldn't be that hard to keep the Finisher Mori but make it into something that rewards those that don't slug for the 4k and win the Hatch race without removing 4k slugging for those that merely want to secure the win: The Finisher Mori only becomes available if the last Survivor is on their feet (healthy or injured or Plot-Twisting, that last one is to prevent from trying to purposefully deny the Mori by using the perk right before the other dies) when the second-to-last Survivor dies by sacrifice, by unique Mori (NOT by bleedout) or escapes. Succeeding would grant extra BP for the extra steps.]
(There's threads about similar solutions)
The goal isn't to remove things, it's to make things healthier. Slugging for the 4k was already a common thing, but it wasn't as prevalent and Mori animations weren't seen as a chore. This same mindset applies to countless aspects of the game but this one is currently making a big impact but could be turned into something good.
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With the new "abandon match" mechanic, the situation you describe is no longer an issue.
Slugging for 4k is still a thing, though, but that was an issue before the finisher mori existed. That's what should be adressed, not the mori itself.8 -
Now that "Abandon match" is a thing, this is no longer an issue. We should be allowed to watch the cool animation at the end of the game.
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Eh, there is a bit of a clickbait going on here. The Last Survivor Mori isnt a failure then, it would just work better if it made the determination that no plays can be played and just instantly ended in the Mori animation and the person on hook insta sacrificing. I agree with those suggestions, perhaps BHVR can work them in slowly now that we have these Moris in the Endgame.
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Abandon match is a hack to avoid the difficulty of designing proper solutions to these issues.
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While I do agree with this statement, in lieu of those solutions actually being implemented, we need something. The game went on for far too many years without moris being a part of the game unless the killer used an offering for them. It's not right.
I'd rather have this for now and then the tough-to-design solution later. We don't know what BHVR is doing behind closed doors, but this is the best way to 1. Allow moris to be a high moment of the game and 2. Alleviate frustration surrounding the setup of that situation.
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Care to elaborate? Why don't you consider it a proper solution?
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There's a problem with player motivation here; the mori becomes more important than the main goal of the game. That's fine, if it doesn't hurt someone else's game experience. But being slugged for 3 minutes while they hunt the other down then wait for them to die on the hook so they can get the mori is a problem.
The slug for the 4k is a problem, but at least once they're on the hook it's fairly safe to finish the match so the slug doesn't spend as much time waiting.
But for the mori, the other must die first. That might mean 140 seconds of waiting for the full hook sequence.
The issue should be fixed through some kind of motivational system, not just letting people quit. If someone has to invoke the menu and hit quit to fix a problem in the gameplay, that's an issue in my book. It's better than nothing, to be sure. But a real solution should be found.
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I had submitted what I thought was a good idea to combat slugging through the feedback channels on the backend but I know game companies RARELY take outside ideas.
The basekit Unbreakable was obviously flawed but what if players had to A: work for it and B: it happened when killer doesn't expect it. The concept was called "Hope Springs".When a player gets knocked down and left, they refill their recover meter to "get help", and then they are able to see a "hope spring", which would essentially be the same as when you mark something with a map (you know the glowing light beam feature no one uses?) Hope Springs populate in the center of main jungle gym tiles. So a survivor could crawl to that spot and get themselves up as if someone helped them that last little bit.
This has a few benefits:- It works Lore wise because the Entity feeds off hope. (hence the name)
- It makes perks like tenacity more appealing to use because it gets you away from the killer faster and helps recovery.
- It incentivizes the killers to hook because they know the players can get back up but it makes it harder to predict when and where.
If you see a player crawling to a tile, you know you have to do something about it. Sure you could wait and hit them again after they get up but if they have something like soul guard or another perk that gives endurance, you chance that being an issue. (or hope springs give you endurance but that might be a bit too much I think? Not sure) - It's a new mechanic that adds a new layer of gameplay.
I am sure people will poke holes in this because welcome to the internet but as a designer of live action experiences, I feel something like this is a step in the right direction.
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People don't mind the Mori per-say. Before this, Mori animations were liked (or at least tolerated) but now, with them happening in most matches, it got old really quick and now they're merely seen as "additional reason why the game won't end" instead of a cool cutscene that didn't happen often.
I'm actually not 100% sure this is true, in my personal experience it's seemed like Survivors have been more obliged to skip Moris than they have the Sacrifice animation, which is way more repetitive. It could easily just be a consequence of the Abandon system too, but I'm wondering if it's a psychological thing about Moris feeling more humiliating, because I don't think I've seen the same jump to ESC when I'm ending my games on sacrifices.
Anyway, I think the wait for Mori vs slug for 4K problem are different issues and shouldn't be conflated too much. Waiting for mori should be easily solveable, slug for 4K is obviously a lot harder and has been tried before.
I personally think something like allowing Dying survivors to pick each other up with a ~5-10 second interaction if they're both at 99% could be worth trying? It's nowhere near as strong as basekit Unbreakable and Killers can use dying survivors' distances from each other as a metric for how long before this mechanic comes into play. If Survivors go down near each other (either because of quick downs, or the Survivor's deliberate play, though doing it deliberately is handing the Killer two free hook states) the Killer will be forced to hook, but if they took a major risk via slugging and got 2 people down far away from each other, they can afford to keep the slug going for ages much like they can now. And it'd be a very strong indirect buff to Tenacity, which'd be nice.
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That is the main reason I love the abandon feature, no more waiting for the killer to hump and bleed out at 99% after they bm the third person on hook for their STALE repetitive animation that is available in store and YouTube.
A lil bias I confess from myself Wesker/Ji-Woon/Vecna are the only 3 respectable and cool moris cause those are the killer I like to vs and play as and their is not over excessive compared to most killers. Overall other than said 3 I never liked moris overall. Like the person above me says yes its pretty much feels humiliating and am not gonna hide that. Where at least the entity plays a COOL animation that I died and am being send to heaven or least hell(entity version) xD.
They should never have brought this thing and whether people admit or not while slugging was always a thing it got way worse when bots and now the finisher mori was added.
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