http://dbd.game/killswitch
Update to Haste and Hindered
Comments
-
First off, 4man flashlight squads are RARE. You don't cater to the 0.00001% of players. As a killer main with over 4,000 hours since late 2020, I haven't run into a 4man flashlight squad in probably two or three years. Second, it doesn't matter if they all run together. If you end up knocking down three of them, you can start picking them up because that fourth person isn't going to be able to blind you on his own, especially if you pick up the survivors facing away from the sole standing survivor. The moment he realizes he can't blind you on his own, he will run away to save himself and will be across the map.
If there are only two survivors left and you down one under the pallet, pick him up. If the other survivor gets the pallet save, then break the pallet. Once you've taken that out of the equation, you don't have to worry about it again. There's only so many pallets they can use, they're just biding their time. When I'm playing killer, I'll even let survivors get a pallet hit on me during a chase just so I can remove it from the map. Only takes a couple of seconds to break the pallet and then you're back in the chase without having to worry about it again.
They can heal tech each other as the game is now, you don't need anti-slug measures for that to happen.
And if it really becomes that abusive that the players are just trading slugs back and forth like you believe they will, then all they have to do is implement an anti-slug timer, where if the same survivor gets auto-raised three times within two or so minutes, their anti-slug immunity is disabled.
0 -
bully squads are gonna get more common with these stats revealed.
1 -
And that is the biggest gap between solo q and SWFs. In solo q, we have people that are sandbagging the rest of their team, by doing things like spending 5 minutes just walking around breaking totems. It's bad for the game. How can solo q survivors feel like a team, when it's acceptable for survivors to actively sandbag their team like that?
-1 -
I agree, the challenges should be based on the objectives of the role such as complete so many gens. I think that would help people to actually work together to do gens instead of being selfish solo player like me lol. It might even encourage players to not hide for 10min or however long while avoiding gens.
The way I look at things is how I play in that role and how I would play in that role. What would get me to play in a healthy way, play as a team player? And if I had challenges that meant working on gens and helping my team I would do that, I'm guessing others would too. Clear objectives with a clear outcome is whats needed.
1 -
I wouldn't call breaking totems sandbagging. I specifically run Detective's Hunch in all of my survivor builds because I cannot even begin to count how many times my entire team has made it out alive because the killer's NOED never went off due to me busted all the totems before gens were done. If you're wasting the entire match avoiding gens because you're hunting totems without something like DH to help you quickly find them, then sure, that can be detrimental to the team, but if you can take out all of the totems between gens, that's a massive boon for the team.
My biggest sandbagging gripe when playing solo is when your teammate is being chased by the killer and he specifically runs them to where you are, causing the killer to now focus on you instead. And it's always when you're over 90% done with a gen. When you start to hear a generator being worked on, or you see the gen's aura due to my Blast Mine, that means lead the killer AWAY.
1 -
No. Just no.
Breaking 5 dull totems, just in case the killer might have NOED, is absolutely sandbagging the entire team. NOED is less than 10% chance of even happening, and an even smaller chance that multiple survivors would die from it. Usually it just gets 1 kill at most.
Meanwhile, there is a much much larger percent of games, where breaking all 5 totems is a complete waste of time. There's no massive value in those games. The team would have been better off if you had just repaired generators instead.
0 -
Yeah, there are a lot of games where the killer doesn't use NOED, I can admit that. But to me, I get a sense of satisfaction after the match when I see they brought NOED and know it didn't go off, so it's worth it to me. Even more satisfaction when I see they're a fellow streamer and I go into their stream after the match and playback the VOD to the moment they realize their NOED didn't work. It's hilarious listening and seeing the confusion on their face. But like I said, I use Detective's Hunch, and I've gotten very adept at being able to immediately locate where the totems are the moment the gens pop, so it takes absolutely no time to get rid of the totems just incase if it adds to my enjoyment of the game.
0 -
To be fair, I often run noed with pyramid head. Usually because when people actually do gens the speed that gens fly is crazy so I know there is a good chance all gens will be done. I basically use the fact that if people are trying to win they will gen rush ignoring totems completely which leaves me with noed at the end. Combined with tunneling I pretty much always get 2k minimum. Granted the percentage of people that use noed is small but that's what I rely on, survivors not expecting it.
1 -
Maybe the Devs are trying to kill the idea of a solid wincon, and may even eventually phase out pipping and emblems in exchange for just gaining points?
Maybe escapes and kills are no longer MEANT to be the wincon? Maybe using MMR gain to judge winning… is a bad idea?
I have no idea why on earth this community has decided that MMR = skilled = wincon. But it's long past time to let go of it. We have been wounded and bleeding from this gash that the MMR system has inflicted on us for years, to the point we've all been gaslit to think that winning is all that matters and a "win" is "escape through gate"/"3-4k" only. But yet the Devs SHOW US this is wrong by giving us means to slow down the game both by our own choice and not by our choice - challenges, quests, dailies, and the MMR system just not working. Killers with powers that make them not pip as easily as others.
Maybe the wincon of the game now, is just to have fun and experiment and do whatever you want. Maybe how you win is YOUR decision now, not some arbitrary concept of kills or escapes. We all know the strongest stuff helps you win almost every time; we all know winstreaks are possible for some Killers and SWF teams but not others. When are we going to admit that trying to win every round all the time is not only not fun for others - it's not even all that fun for ourselves?
It's time to admit it. The concept that MMR gain or gate escapes/number of kills equates to winning is DEAD and needs to stay dead. And good on BHVR for trying to find ways to handle it.Post edited by LockerLurk on2 -
You're still sandbagging your team in most your games, regardless of your intentions, regardless of your personal satisfaction, and regardless of how efficiently you can break totems.
You're causing frustration to your teammates way more often than you're causing frustration to NOED killers. That really should matter.
-3 -
Then what are winning and losing? What is drawing? How do they actually provide feedback to any of these outcomes other than flavor text on the tally screen? Most people would rather the wincon NOT be how MMR works, and even after its introduction many clung to pips and emblems as their personal wincon. The way the abandon system is being introduced, the feedback becomes both irrelevant and detatched from the closest thing we have to an objective measure. Its almost like they're trying to lessen both gloating and frustration and just confusing everybody in the process.
0 -
Nah most normal people don’t care about some imaginary number you can’t even see but if you want to hide all match doing nothing, you do you I guess 🤷♂️
3 -
This wouldn't be much of an issue if most the killers who can teleport/traverse the map in second didn't have the same base movement speed as the trapper….
0 -
My whole point is maybe we need to stop thinking in terms of wins and losses and draws based on MMR… and start thinking in terms of "how well did I do? How many gens/hooks did I get? How many chases did I succeed? How many uses of my power did I have? How many saves did I get?"
Not "did I escape/3-4k?", which is what MMR measures. We're saying the same thing, but not in the same way. People seem to just want to be able to win or lose or draw based on other things besides kills and escapes. I agree. MMR is no way to measure success in this game.
I agree it's very confusing. I wish the Devs would be more clear about it, if this is their goal, to make gloating less satisfying and frustration less frustrating. But BHVR's never been great at communicating…0 -
So my main Dredge should be made as clunky and slow as Nurse because Dredge can teleport? Myers should be given free haste on top of the speed he gets from Tier III because he's an M1 Killer?
Make this make sense, this makes no sense. Some Killers being faster than others due to their power doesn't mean they need to be hard nerfed the way Nurse was; Nurse is exactly the posterchild for why we DON'T balance around movement speed like this…0 -
Honey sorry mus 90% of killer have over inflated MMR though any system now survivour can do it too
-1 -
The nurse is still S tier lol not sure what you’re trying to say. Killers shouldn’t have the same speed as a m1 killer who’s only ability is to set traps and then has to race across the map to get to them before they get loose hence why he needs that speed… it’s pretty self explanatory!!
1 -
Ive always been a proponent of personal wincons, especially since the can add bittersweetness to otherwise demoralizing defeat. But pvp games, regardless of whether they are casual or strictly competitive, need wincons. Even Mario Party, Fall Guys, Mahjong, Go Fish, even damn Pogs… pretty much everything where one or more players are at odds need at least one unified, concrete wincon to measure their objective completion. SBMM was designed to adhere to this (for better or worse) as was the rank/pip system before it. There needs to be a unified feedback system so players can gauge both their effectiveness at succeeding in their role's objective, as well as have any metric to determine how they fared againt the player(s) they were at odds with.
1 -
I don't actually care how strong a given Killer is and neither should anyone else.
I care if the Killer feels good to play. The Nurse, IMHO, does not. I don't care if she's S tier, it literally does not matter. She feels clunky and bad to play, and it's a direct result of nerfing her speed in favor of not just redesigning her power entirely.
Killers should not be slower or as slow as Survivors. Come on now…-3 -
I agree that pvp games need wincons. I just think DBD needs MORE wincons. The ones we have now aren't enough and clearly do not feel good, increase sweat, and ruin the more casual nature of the game. So why not just add more possible ways to win or alter what a win is?
-1 -
It can and should have more. But it needs a baseline one, preferably one that is at least mostly zero sum. the "4 1v1's" fits that bill, which is why having these abandon scenarios result the way they do kinda break that system. Its not even an MMR thing, MMR is just the most objective (even if heavily flawed) way of reaching that conclusion. Personally I thought the pip system was a healthier version of a similar concept, but in the end there just needs to be clear and logically consistent win/lose outcomes, with draws being used sparingly for concepts like stalemates and mutual destruction.
0 -
And I am not saying to remove this baseline wincon. My point is I think the devs need the scoring system to acocunt for MORE than just that one wincon, thus adding more wincons. Making the game feel way more casual. Isn't that what we want, the game to feel less sweaty?
-1 -
Thats what the pip system was. In order to get pips, you needed to diversify your emblems, meaning you needed to prioritize versatility over efficiency. It also led to non zero-sum outcomes, as survivors and the killer could simultaneously win or lose, depending on the quality of the match. It had its blindspots and there were situations where the emblems were not accurate, but it leaned away from strictly result focused outcomes.
2 -
… Won't this like totally skew any future stats on kill/escape rates? Since none of the matches are considered completed and arguably the vast majority of survs DCs to skip the finisher Mori?
2 -
Another thing the Devs need to clear up, I'm not sure if I'm more shocked at the current state of the abandon system or more shocked that the Devs have not explained anything about it. Simply "abandon to leave match penalty free" doesn't explain anything.
1 -
That's a bannable offense and people on Twitter have posted about being banned for it
This is specifically to prevent the scenario of a killer intentionally holding a 3 gen from the start of the match as a win condition
3 -
I'm really confused by this thread.
I'm seeing a bunch of people in here saying that survivors choosing to hide and not do gens is an automatic win button for survivor, despite the fact that it requires the killer, not the survivors, to choose to press the resign button - and if they don't, than the survivors lose out on more time and lose the game.
However, I saw those same people defending the strategy of holding a 3 gen for 10 minutes and then pressing the "resign" button as a fair win condition for the killer.
What changed in the last week that caused so many people to realize that intentionally stalling out the game isn't a fun win condition?
Now, I agree that stalling out the game isn't a good win con for a game like DBD. I personally have never seen a team of survivors go for a stall-out victory, so it's hard for me to imagine that happening, but a bunch of other people insist it's a real threat, so who am I to judge. In any case, if I recall correctly, the devs have said they're hoping to rework idle crows so they're more likely to spawn on people who aren't doing anything useful. Hopefully that'll help combat the threat of survivors spawning in and refusing to do gens that a bunch of people have promised is totally real.
3 -
We all agree that hiding avoiding gens is a banable offence. Is it banable for holding 3 gens?
-2 -
IDK, you're the resident expert on bannable offenses from killer gameplay 🧟
All joking aside, the point is not what is technically punishable by means of a ban. The point is what makes for interesting gameplay for all sides. In fact I think the fact that infinite hiding is bannable strengthens my point - why are you getting upset at a "stall out win condition" that doesn't actually exist, right after defending and advocating for a real "stall out win condition?"
4 -
😂 I'm not upset about anything, I'm just saying the difference between the 2 scenarios.
Scenario 1. Killers used abandon feature to get free wins by using a tactic which to my knowledge that isn't banable and even has a hard counter via the basekit kick limit (3 gen).
Scenario 2. Survivors use abandon as justification and incentive to commit a banable offence (hiding avoid gens trying to grief the killer into DC).
Both sides use abandon feature beyond its original intent causing unfun and unfair game mechanics. But 1 side is using it to commit a banable offense while the other didn't.
I have to be careful what I say here but for players that play both killer and survivor... They could and did use the abandon feature to their benefit as killer..they can, will and do use the fact the killer gets a loss if the killer can be pushed to abandon via hiding as survivor.
-2 -
Gonna be honest man, I haven't seen any evidence to suggest anyone on the survivor side is intentionally aiming for a stall out victory
1 -
I definitely have, many times as killer I come across it. It used to hide for hatch but since abandon is around the amount of hiders has dramatically increased in my matches. Reason for the increase? People are starting to understand that they no longer need to hide for potentially 1 hour waiting for the other player to die so last can get hatch, now they just need to hide for 10min and there is a chance killer will abandon giving both survivors a way to avoid getting a loss while killer takes the loss. More incentive, more people are doing it, in my matches anyway. Others have said the same, others have openly said they will hide more.
-2 -
I have faced this sort of petty "well we're just gonna hide and hold you in the round as long as possible because there's only two of us left and we don't want to give you ANY amount of a win so there!" before. It's not common but I have seen it.
1 -
I mean I guess that does happen, but IMO that's slightly different from what I'm talking about.
We're talking about the killer entering the game from minute 0 with the intent of defending the closest 3 gens in order to abuse the 10 minute timer, and whatever the analouge of that would be for survivor gameplay. In that case it would be the survivors entering the game from minute 0 with the intent of avoiding both killer and gens in order to abuse the 10 minute timer.
The analogue to survivors hiding when there's only 2 of them left is: the killer being very defensive of a 3 gen the survivors have naturally created of their own according and miscalculation. Annoying, but IMO not a clear abuse of the system. At least, that's how I'm approaching this discussion
In any case it's the scenario of "survivors load in with the intent of just avoiding the killer and never touching gens until they abandon" that I see no evidence for
4 -
breaking totems is sandbagging? you high?
3 -
people like you are what make most matches suck for both sides gens go so fast match lasted 5 min.
why don't you play a game where all you doing is fix gens by holding onto 1 button and press another button for skill check no killer.
fun gameplay🙄
5 -
I ran small game for the longest time. I always pop one motor myself before I go totem hunting. I'm my groups bone sl*t because I can get all 5 totems in the time it takes them to finish two gens. I have most of the spawns memorized on most maps, and all of them on the saloon. I've saved my team from noed and other hexes more times than I care to count.
1 -
Thank you for changing haste hinder back
-2 -
seems like a killer win to me but in a poorly done way
0 -
If high amounts of haste was identified by BHVR itself as being a problem where they wanted to remove stacking of it, then why did haste perks themselves get buffed after the no-stack idea was reverted? Now they are even MORE of a problem than they already were.
0
