http://dbd.game/killswitch
Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered
Comments
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It's always amusing the double standards people have towards killers.
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It is what happens when the game is desiged in a way INHERANTLY that there are 4x as many survivors as there are killers. It really is the big problem with most of these asymmetrical games, is that its horrible to play the "1" because you truly are the "1"
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While somewhat true why does the button appear immediately? I've had situations where three survivors are down at the same time and DC before I'm done wiping my blade. There should be a grace period where we have a chance to hook them. Now I'm stuck hooking bots or DCing myself.
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I feel like the inclusion of this abandon - feature just invites bad habits.
I dont like where this is going to be honest.
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And how does this make what Mandy said incorrect? It shouldn't have to be stated that it wasn't an objective statement unless you're trying to force semantics.
In the 1/100 chance that the killer somehow fumbles so bad in the EGC that:
A - They have no idea where any survivors are
B - They have no perks/addons/powers that assist in finding survivors
C - The survivors all hide the entire two minute duration and escape at the last second
Then there already is a solution and this scenario isn't relevant to OP since the killer would be playing the entire time and there would be no BM in the Exit Gates.
Post edited by WolfyWood on-7 -
It isn't a double standard if people tell you why Survivors get something that Killers don't.
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You mean like the 1/100 chance you get bled out? I literally can't remember the last time this happened and I play way, way more than the average player.
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with the slug meta? It was way more than 1/100 games games
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It was not, and we're not in a slug meta.
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Even if this was true (its not in my experience and I play a lot as well,) previously there was no solution to four man slug except for waiting the entire timer on the ground. Now there is a solution.
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it was. why do you think knockout finally got changed? Because people used the perk more and slugged more. Just look at the content creators that were were just playing for slugs like Choy and tru3. Saying it barley happened is just disingenuous
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Mandy’s statement literally said “the killer can do a lot to force survivors out of the match”. That statement is incorrect if the survivors are hiding in random parts of the map, until the EGC is almost done.
“The killer would be playing the entire time” isn’t relevant, because that wasn’t Mandy’s statement.
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It is a double standard when all the times that a survivor would want to abandon it counts as a draw, but the one time a killer does it counts as a loss. The entire system shows the bias BHVR has for survivor players.
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There is a lot of unknown with SoloQ Survivor. They don't know if their team are safe. They wait at Exit Gates to make sure everyone is safe and body block if needed. Not everyone is out to BM. All SoloQ Survivor have for End Game information is Empathy or No One Left Behind.
Also allowing people to Abandon for inconveniences is a bad direction. It's like people only playing matches through when they Win.
I still think the prompt to Abandon should be removed when it is available.
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We both agree it's extremely rare. I agree that in the hypothetical scenario that you're all 4 slugged, being bled out, and there's no perks to save yall, that is an issue. However it's such a rare issue that it is hardly worth addressing and even if we did, it would need to be addressed in a way that only fixes that problem. The abandon feature goes WAY far above and beyond preventing a hostage or bleed out scenario. It is not a hostage prevention feature, it's a go next faster feature. A go next faster feature, while convenient, is not good for the game. If it was actually for preventing just those bleed out scenarios I'd be fine with that.
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You're basing too much of what's the "meta" on watching content creators. That's not the meta. It was and still is extremely rare to find a killer hard slugging and any time they do it generally doesn't go well for them. Are you honestly going to tell me that in your matches you often ran into hard 4 man slugs?
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It was common enough for the devs to address it, which they did.
Abandon being used to 'go next' is just a by-product of an actual healthy fix and going next in this situation has no negative consequences unless you want to bleed-out players or force them to watch a mori. I don't see why either of these should be mandatory, having them be optional is fine.
The killer gets to win, survivors get to move on from a lost match. Nobody is losing out.
Again, I am aware this logic could be applied to the OP's idea, but in that case, the by-product is being made the actual feature, which opens the door to constantly petitioning for more and more ways to abandon a match, there's literally a post in this very thread stating the killer should be able to open the door at any point in the trial, for example.
The statement isn't incorrect because it was never made to be an objective statement. You are the one trying to force objectivity in that the killer would never be able to find survivors in the scenario you have created, which not only doesn't fit, but is nonsensical in nature.
Furthering that, the killer would still have autonomy in the situation you describe because they can still find the survivors who are hiding, and failing that, the game would still time out after two minutes.
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If there is an open hatch or open exit gate, then a slugged survivor still has the autonomy to crawl around the map, and could potentially escape the match.
Which means slugged survivors shouldn’t be able to abandon if there is an open hatch or open exit gate, if we want to use autonomy as the criteria for the abandon feature.
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It does have consequences. It degrades the integrity of the match. If we're being fair then the killer should be able to abandon as soon as it's all bots for the win. At that point the match is over.
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How many of these topics are there now?
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I agree with your suggestion.
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The killer should be able to abandon when the survivors hard split and 3 gens get done at 1 hook. 60% of their objective done vs like 8%. I'd rather just go next than continue to play against the mega tryhards
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Honestly don't overly mind the waiting at the gate thing as when I'm done as killer I tend to switch the twitch or YouTube for inspiration for my next game, it's not that serious so I'm happy for people to choose to play how they want to.
That being said, I can see the double-standard, I never 'hump' survivors on the ground or deliberately bleed out to waste their time - powering tripping in a video game isn't my thing, so instantly hook or mori to move the match along. So giving survivors an option to abandon when their time is being wasted and not the killer isn't fair.
I'm generally leaning toward against adding the abandon option for killer during end-game, as survivor challenges for hatch would be a lot more difficult to complete.
Personally would like to see the exit gates work a little more different to keep things interesting for both sides, when the gates are powered the switches gradually lose charges, if the charges are depleted the gates slam closed once more and require reopening again, survivors caught in the exit area ensnared by the Entity and brought back into the trial in a Cage of Atonement. The trial is never over until you escape!-6 -
Yup 100% what this user is saying.
I have had kills because of survivor misplays at the exit gates.
As well as someone who is zoned (you dont know) but has to hide as the last gen has popped, but you are in their way. Getting a kill since not everyone is at the exit gate. You dont know.
There are countless situations where just because the exit gate is complete, the game is not over. Many of which have nothing to do with perk loadout.
The abandon feature was added to not deal with game stalling and no control over it.
The abandon feature should not expand to deal with people who refuse to just go hit people out of the game. You still have full control over your character AND have a chance to get kills.
These situations are nothing alike.
Slugging and not moving on was an issue. So abandon feature was added.
A person just giving up based on their emotional state, when the match is still alive, is not an issue. So the abandon feature should not be added.
Since the game is not over and you dont like t-bagging. You may as well apply this to the rest of the match. And quickly realize this becomes an even sillier suggestion.-1 -
Funny how you have to construct a fantasy scenario where the pristine killer in shining armor really wants to go for 12 hooks this game and politely takes at least 90 seconds to get that first hook, but the evil survivors are touching generators instead of waiting patiently to get these numbers.
-3 -
The underlying message of this post is
"I want to give up because the game didnt go my way, and not get a DC penalty"
Since the game isnt over, you still have full control over your character. You still can get kills.
You just dont want to as you have given up.
Where do you draw the line for this then? It doesnt just stop at the exit gates with this message from this suggestion.
When there is 1 gen and you only have 2 hooks on seperate people, and you arent getting a down quick enough?
How about no hooks? Or 2 gens? Or 3 gens at the start were too fast for you….?
Like there is clearly no line to draw with this message. As you've given up when the match is still alive.1 -
Have you never played a game at high MMR?
If a survivor Shift + w to a corner of the map, no pallets, no windows, no nothing, and lets say you are a trapper, do you know how long it takes to 2 hit that survivor and down them and hook them? Lets do some math shall we?
Some quick facts:
- Lets assume the survivor is super slow, and doesn't realize the killer is near them until they are 16 meters away. Then they shift + w to a corner
- Killer moves at 4.6 m/s
- Survivor moves at 4.0 m/s, and 6.0 m/s after hit that lasts 1.8 seconds
- Killer needs to be 3.61 meters away from a survivor running away for a lunge to connect.
So lets look at it:
- Survivor starts running at 16 meters shift + w
- Killer takes 20.65 seconds to catch up to the survivor to land the first hit
- Survivor takes off at high speed and the killer can start moving again when the survivor has gained 14.4 meters of distance
- Killer takes 17.98 seconds to catch up to the survivor to land the second hit and down the survivor
- Survivor is downed in a corner of the map
- Killer wipes the blade, 2.7 seconds
- Killer picks up the survivor, 3 seconds
- Killer walks to a hook about 19 meters away (on average), 5.16 seconds
- Killer hooks the survivor 1.5 seconds
Now STOP, how long has this taken now that the first hook has happened? Lets add it up:
20.65 + 17.98 + 2.7 + 3 + 5.16 + 1.5 = 50.99 seconds. Lets just called it 51 shall we?
51 seconds and that is assuming the survivor doesn't use pallets, doesn't use windows. What about if they say, idk, predrop a god pallet, like shack, one time in the chase. How long does that add?
Well, from one side of a pallet to the other is a little less than a full lunge distance. I'd say its probably about 5 meters ( a full lunge is 6.21 meters). Survivor drops it, and starts running from 4 meters away. Killer breaks it, and it takes 2.34 seconds. This is enough time for the survivor to get 14.36 meters away. How long does it take the killer to catch up? 17.91 seconds, lets round up and say 18 to make it easier
So predropping just 1 single god pallet at shack, adds at minimum 18 seconds to that chase. Bringinging it to 69 seconds, from 51 seconds.
So now you know where the "predrop 2 god pallets lose 3 gens" comes from. Because quite literally, you can completely no skill just predrop 2 god pallets that by definition MUST be broken because they are not mindgameable, and shift + w to a corner of the map, and you will last long enough for the other 3 survivors to do 3 gens.
The devs have stated before at one point that the game is designed in such a way that the average chase should last around 45 seconds. So this isn't too far off from that.
Now i know what you are going to say next. Probably something like "well that's if your temmates do gens" and YOU ARE RIGHT. That is the point, at high MMR? Your teammates WILL do gens, and this is a typical game you get when you play one of the lower tier killers like trapper, and wraith, and pig, and doctor, and demogorgon and so on.
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Egh…when posters try to assume others MMR. Especially when you never get to see these people's play in any format its just like…
what are we doing here?
You are just assuming only you has high MMR experience, let alone are even high mmr to begin with, and then just assume that others arent.
It really just leaves their argument on grandstanding with nothing factual behind it.
Noone here, including me, knows their MMR.
Its like trying to appeal to authority, but the authority is themselves.3 -
notice how the very first statement i made was a question asking "have you never played a game at high MMR?" and then describing a common scenario i encounter. I didn't assume anything, i asked them a question, then described a common experience in my games.
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I'm copying my comment that I wrote about this topic somewhere here.
Honestly, it’s unbelievable that some still defend this behavior. Everyone knows why Survivors linger at the gate until the timer runs out: just to rub their win in your face with teabags and flashlight clicks if you approach. It’s pure toxicity. Instead of implementing something that actually discourages this and helps reduce toxicity, we’re being told to either “go AFK” or “just hit them out” ,as if that’s an actual solution.
And this isn't about being “too sensitive,” to BM, it’s about a flawed game loop that allows and even encourages toxic endgame behavior. Giving killers the option to abandon without penalty when the game is over, would reduce frustration and make the endgame feel less like a taunt session.
The abandon feature is already available for survivors. If it were implemented properly for killers as well in situations like these, it would be a very reasonable solution.
Edit: Really curious about the reasons behind the downvotes. Though chances are, there aren't any, probably just little trolls doing their thing...
Post edited by MissiCiv on-1 -
Have you never played a game at high MMR?
You led with this question for:
- "You’re inexperienced"
- "Your argument is invalid because you must not understand high-level play"
If you want to have an honest discussion about high mmr you need to watch the things you actually quote like chase times, because you quickly will see you are just leaving kills on the table, because you want to give up. Because "the exit gates are powered"
In my spare time here I watched some of the tournament rounds and they consistently get kills, even when the exit gates are powered with the ability to body block.
• Both dredge matches from Elysium and Eternal exit gates are powered, no insta down ability, 3 body blocks, and they still secured a kill in the end.
• Unknown qualifiers, Silence still secured a kill with 3 body blocks available, no insta down ability. And exit gates were powered.
• Origin qualifiers, Plague still secured a kill a kill with the exit gate open.
• Quarter finals, Houndmaster secured their 2k with the exit gate open.
Like I could go on but you cant just ignore kills on the table, "just because the exit gates are powered".
With your suggestion on abandoning just because the exit gates are powered.
You essentially want to give up at that point, because you dont want to play that part of the game.
If you had your way, killer 0ks would become inflated as people would give up when they could still get a kill.
You cant quote high mmr chase times and hypotheticals in your "head math" post above, but then ignore actual high mmr gameplay when it doesnt fit your narrative. .
This entire post has shifted from "let me abandon I dont like tbagging"
to "you see what people in high mmr can do?"
If you want to pivot (stay on topic, this doesnt work on me)from frustration about survivor behavior to a debate on killer viability at high MMR, make another post, but let’s not pretend it’s the same topic. It isn’t.7 -
Yes, killers should be able to leave when gates are opened.
Are gates being opened quite as 'game ending' as all the survivors being down? Not really, I still think they should be able to leave the game, but a 15 to 30 second delay here would make sense.
There is a more practical problem in that having a bot take over the killer is more difficult than a bot taking over a survivor.
Reading through the thread, it is clear that BHVR's 'let's clear up what is going on with win/losses with the abandon system' just caused huge levels of confusion.
They're funny discussions.
In the post you're referencing, the killer is somehow chasing a survivor who is doing nothing but running straight for 35.93 (20.65+17.98-2.7) seconds. That means the killer covered 165.278 meters. The only way this is possible is if at high MMR the maps become Pac-Man style maps where the survivors can loop from one side to the other.
It's one of the math errors that comes up on the thread, presuming survivors just have infinite distance on the maps (not to mention no obstacles).
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Respectfully Mandy, why is the onus on the Killer to force Survivors who refuse to leave or are hiding to force the Killer to wait the EGC out, out of the match? Why does the Killer have to be the arbiter of this, beholden to a Survivor who is hiding around the map and MAKING them stay for the entire two minute collapse? Why are we giving one side the option to give up if the Killer refuses to hook, but not giving it to the other if the Suvivors refuse to leave, even though both obviously are done to irritate the other side?
It feels BAD to be slugged for four minutes. It feels BAD to be forced to wait an entire 2 minutes. It feels BAD to be on the receiving end of a loss and having the other side rub it in your face. And you and I both know Survivors sit in the gates very often just to make the Killer watch them leave, that doesn't feel good."The Killer can do a lot?" Tell me what a Killer with low mobility is intended to do against Survivors who sit at the butt edge of the gate and taunt. Tell me what a Killer who can't traverse a large map easily is intended to do when Survivors hide in it JUST to stall the endgame out as long as possible. How is Trapper supposed to get points for that and why does he have to be the one to do it? Shouldn't the Survivors, who have already clearly won and are ONLY doing this to mock the Trapper, just leave? Why is it the Killer's job to do this, what if the Killer just wants to gracefully concede and move on?
If I do not have to watch the Killer slug me for a full bleedout while I crawl around, I should not have to force Survivors out or play "hide and seek" for 2 minutes because they want to make me stay in the match longer. It's very simple. Just make this change, I don't understand why you and the other Devs seem to believe Killer players are okay with having to be mocked by sore winners. It really makes you and the team look as though you don't CARE about the Killer experience saying that, which I know isn't true.If you and the Devs care about Killers, you will implement this because this is what the community has been asking for ever since the Abandon feature happened. Please just give us what we're asking for.
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With how often this topic comes up and is discussed by both sides, I'm kinda disappointed this is the official stance. I tried addressing this very recently in another version of the topic, but just in case it gets lost to time:
Imagine if you had a single way to circumvent the slug bleedout timer, but it involved groveling at the killer's feet. Not just sitting there and waiting to be hooked, but actually perform a degrading act in order to end the match. And you had to do it up to 8 times, while up to 3 other killers were W/Sing you. How many survivors do you think would do it, and how many do you think would just alt tab out and watch videos on youtube?Being able to press buttons does not equal agency. Being able to work toward your goal in any meaningful manner is agency. If there were a reliable way for killers to be able to punish people who refuse to leave, that would involve agency (there are even posts in this topic about how people respect Slinger in the exit gates.) Being forced into a humiliation ritual is not agency. Then again, one side being able to abandon the second the last survivor touches the floor shows that the team is capable of understanding that distinction. Thats why people call it a double standard. Its not about being able to scrape together a few bloodpoints, its about sportsmanship.
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Tournament results are not valid in this type of discussion because many tournaments impose different restrictions on playing specific maps, and banning specific perks per killer. For example, on nurse a ton of perks are banned, on trapper, very few are banned. Trapper goes to his best map specifically, and TONS of survivor perks are banned against trapper and far less against nurse.
Basically, comp attempts to balance the game different per killer and have different ladders and rankings per killer.
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Okay so you are hard moving onto another topic entirely in the post now with hypotheticals and goal posts around what you personally define as high mmr.
This post that started out as:
"I dont like seeing survivors t-bag me at the exit gates, please implement an abandon feature for it"
Pivoting(no surprise) now to:
"Heres what high MMR can do in matches, but I cant provide any documented proof of that, just accept what I say"
Make another post at this point, as you have gone off topic from your OP, and provide tangible proof to back up what you say. Make sure to not cherry pick the data you also use.4 -
This argument again?
I especially love the false equivalency to slugged survivors, which is apples and oranges absurdity.
No one forces the killer to watch survs teabag at the gate; no force transports you to the gate and fixes the camera on the survs, and the survs can't follow you around with the gate and force you to witness them like a killer can stay on top of you as you helplessly crawl.
Honestly, if people are so terrifed of lame survs teabagging in the gate, just open it yourself and don't go near either gate. Worst case you spend two minutes breaking stuff or otherwise scrounging BP. Or just go AFK.
And there's a non-zero chance one of the goobers comes out and gets themselves killed. And regardless, we're talking about a max of 120 seconds, during which you still have actual agency.
There is zero comparison to being humped by a killer for four minutes.
As a killer I don't sweat this at all. I won't give them the satisfaction of me watching them, but I find ways to spend the time. I'll break stuff, use my power/tp if it scores points, etc. If I'm playing Huntress I'll goof off trying drop orbitals or cross maps into the gate. If I'm playing a stealth killer a killer with a one shot power I'll hide just outside and see if I get one to come out (which does happen).
But I don't think "boy, I sure wish I could DC".
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I mean, it is true, but i was merely responding to another post and then you responded to me jumping it. In general you are correct though, lets stay on topic. I would be happy to discuss all of the other points, but if so, lets make another thread and not clog this one up since this one has a specific topic and purpose that isn't really what we are talking about now.
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Survivors can crawl around while slugged, so they actually do have agency there. If you are comparing "breaking random pallets and collecting some BP" as agency, then i think its fair to bring up the counter that the survivors can also do the same while slugged by crawling around in the killers terro radius, collecting boldness points, and recovering a bit for survival points.
Also i think that you are looking specifically at EGC, which yeah, is a 2 minute timer, but there is the time before that for opening the gates. Which ultimate probably makes it pretty equivalent in terms of time, because survivors have to run over to the gate, then open it, then the timer starts. All of which takes some time.
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I just don't really see how you could even argue against this. The game is no more over when all survivors are down given perks like unbreakable, wiggling off the killers shoulder, or kobeing off the hook then compared to when the gates are open. If people want to stick around for some miniscule chance then let them, but if people want to simply end the game then let them as well. This is the exact same situation, if one side has all but won let us get into the next match.
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The only correct answer to this is "yes".
If you're advocating against this, it means you don't care about toxicity.
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Define "Scummy"
I'll await the "trying to win the game" description.
-5 -
But why should killers have to be forced to experience that kind of terrible feeling? It doesn't feel good. Why do you guys consider that acceptable? Yet if survivors get themselves slugged, it's a huge issue and they can get themselves a free draw.
All due respect, at what point do we start admitting there's a bias here? Do you not care about people who've grown up being bullied? And yet, something that is objectively a correct solution…nah, can't have that, survivors like humiliating the killer and being toxic, and we have to make sure the narcissists can ego on the killer, right? It's a bit silly.
I mean no disrespect but I need some sort of solid explanation why this isn't a thing, and why every abandon scenario favors the survivor directly. The community deserves to know why even if there ISN'T a bias toward survivors, it always seems like there is one, especially since survivors getting themselves slugged is a huge problem, yet it's deemed acceptable for killers to have to be subjected to anxiety and humiliation.
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Zero reason not to, gate being powered is 99% game over without any capability of killer input at all, it's just a fact
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I always wondered, can't you put restrictions on the behavior of survivors inside the gate?
For example, can't you block the exit to prevent the survivor from escaping for a certain period of time only when he/she does certain actions such as “stay in the gate for more than 30 seconds”, “flash the light more than 5 times”, “bend over more than 5 times”, and so on? Can't you do that?
It would be nice to allow killers to abandon the game, but if we can penalize people who are playing the game for the purpose of making others uncomfortable in this way, it would not be a problem for people who are playing normally and would create an opportunity for killers who are uncomfortable. I think that this is a good idea.
-2 -
Wrong, if the survivor want it can take however long. Simply hitting 4 healthy survivor over the finish line takes 8 hits plus weapon whipe.
Add to that perks and/or tools it can take even longer.
The ONLY scenario where it takes only a few seconds is when survivor willingly run straight over the line once the killer comes. Which, I admit, the scummy kind of survivor, that faints a free hit only to dodge last second over the line, really does.
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The difference is that survivor no matter the circumstance with the exception of all being either on the floor, hook or dead, survivor can IMMEDIATELY dodge not only time waste but any subjective humiliation or necessity to try to turn the situation around.
Survivor also can have a multitude of perks or be in a spot where the killer might drop them of their shoulder but nothing of that sort is taking into consideration.
Couple that with the fact that survivor get a draw on abandoning while killer either have to play out a boring bot match or take a loss and it doesn't paint a pretty picture.
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Really don't see why people are against this?? I'm sure OP is aware that even if the exit gates are powered, they still have the potential to get kills, however if a killer has already had a rough match, and feels as though they're just going to be delaying an inevitable loss, then why shouldn't they be able to just get the match out of the way?
I'm sure everyone here already knows that a decent part of the community feels the need to rub every little mistake that other players make in their face, both killers and survivors, and I don't see why EITHER side should have to suffer through that really. Again, killers can obviously force survivors out of the exit gates but at the end of the day, the match result would still be the same if they abandoned.
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"They can crawl around when slugged" which means…what? They can force the Killer out? They can kill the Killer? They can actually stop the Killer from humping them? Exactly what "agency" does crawling around provide? You have the ability to punish the Survivors for their "toxic" behavior, while Survivors do not have the ability to punish Killers for their "toxic" behavior.
Pushing Survivors out and potentially getting an extra kill is way more agency than what crawling around can provide.
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So glad SOMEONE recognised the satire lol.
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