Balance Question for Pig
Would it make any real difference if the traps activated the moment they were put on?
I know that Rules 2 would need to be changed to something else if it did but would anything really change? It would make sure that every time you put on a trap that they are in danger, instead of it being a thing they get rid of before it's actually a threat.A lot of times the trap acitvates just 1 or 2 boxes from the Survivors taking it off so most of the tikme it's not a threat since Survivors try not to do Gens until their buddy gets it off. You can say that's good for Killers since it slows things down but it's not good for Piig in particular, for her it makes her traps a toy and not something for Survivors to worry about. So my question is, would it make any negative difference if the traps just activated when they were put on instead of relying on the Gens?.
Comments
-
I wouldn't say put ON since that'd be a tad broken. If they were going to do something LIKE that I'd recommend maybe that once a survivor is rescued from a hook it'll start to tick but I'm hardly the first to think of that.0
-
I'd like some small buffs for Pig but making the traps more lethal isn't the way imo. If anything let's make Rule Set #2 baseline or maybe a guarenteed no key always on the first box. These kind of changes improves the time they waste and makes them more reliable without really making them more deadly.
Her biggest issues aren't her traps though, it's her crouch and ambush. She needs a higher view point on crouching and the sound on her ambush needs to be removed. Those are the major things she really needs and if nothing else about her gets changed it NEEDS to be these.
Other things I'd like to see are the penalty on Amanda's Letter removed. It's a decent addon but nothing that crazy to deserve any negatives. Some of her addons relating to box search speed, skill check chances and skilll check penalties are all quite underwhelming as well and could use a little love.
3 -
I dont think the the trap timer should be dictated by SWF stacks, so i am all for it.
0 -
It's hard to say, IMO. I think between that, RSN2 being base kit, and the first Jigsaw Box being auto-fail, having the timer auto-start is probably the one that has the highest chance of having a negative impact on gameplay, but I don't necessarily think it's such a high chance that I could not see it working.
At the same time, that is also the option that will least solve the problem of the trap coming off too quickly, and I think having multiple of the above options being implemented in base kit would be overkill. Rules Set #2 makes it harder for the trap to come off before the timer starts, and the first box being auto-fail would just overall raise the average amount of time needed to search the boxes. Having the timer auto-start creates the odd scenario of the trap being deadlier but not actually any more difficult to remove.
I assume OP means for the timers to still pause while the Survivor is downed/being chased/hooked. Just that the Timer would not have to wait for a gen to finish for the countdown to start.Khroalthemadbomber said:I wouldn't say put ON since that'd be a tad broken. If they were going to do something LIKE that I'd recommend maybe that once a survivor is rescued from a hook it'll start to tick but I'm hardly the first to think of that.0 -
I would like a buff of Pig's Ambush.
Since it was adjusted to increase the distance of one round of the pallet loops(2.0.0~?), her unbush often have become ineffective on chase. Ambush's dash distance and speed should be slightly buffed.
4 -
I think it would be a good buff to have them activate after they get off the hook or revived by a teammate. It would take away the whole weighting whether or not you should complete a generator and potentially kill your teammate if ######### hits the fan, which is somewhat of a thrilling dynamic, but it would increase her viability a lot more. Don't see why not
1 -
@Demian said:
I would like a buff of Pig's Ambush.Since it was adjusted to increase the distance of one round of the pallet loops(2.0.0~?), her unbush often have become ineffective on chase. Ambush's dash distance and speed should be slightly buffed.
A buff to Ambush wou8ld be awesome, add-on or base. I only use it in chases actually, when I sneak up on people I just stand up, sometimes pull them off the Gen.
1 -
@Blueberry said:
I'd like some small buffs for Pig but making the traps more lethal isn't the way imo. If anything let's make Rule Set #2 baseline or maybe a guarenteed no key always on the first box. (...)Her biggest issues aren't her traps though, it's her crouch and ambush. She needs a higher view point on crouching and the sound on her ambush needs to be removed. (...)
Other things I'd like to see are the penalty on Amanda's Letter removed.
These are all good points. I don't agree on the removal of the "warning sound" of the dash attack, but besides that, it's a very nice summary of what should be done.
0 -
@HatCreature said:
@Demian said:
I would like a buff of Pig's Ambush.Since it was adjusted to increase the distance of one round of the pallet loops(2.0.0~?), her unbush often have become ineffective on chase. Ambush's dash distance and speed should be slightly buffed.
A buff to Ambush wou8ld be awesome, add-on or base. I only use it in chases actually, when I sneak up on people I just stand up, sometimes pull them off the Gen.
This. I've done some tests in kyf and currently, without addons, survivors can run ~20m away from the loop when they start running asap (when they see you go crouch).
Further reducing her uncrouch speed would really help in her mindgame part.0 -
@HatCreature said:
Would it make any real difference if the traps activated the moment they were put on?I know that Rules 2 would need to be changed to something else if it did but would anything really change? It would make sure that every time you put on a trap that they are in danger, instead of it being a thing they get rid of before it's actually a threat.A lot of times the trap acitvates just 1 or 2 boxes from the Survivors taking it off so most of the tikme it's not a threat since Survivors try not to do Gens until their buddy gets it off. You can say that's good for Killers since it slows things down but it's not good for Piig in particular, for her it makes her traps a toy and not something for Survivors to worry about. So my question is, would it make any negative difference if the traps just activated when they were put on instead of relying on the Gens?.
I dont think that this will make much of a difference tbh
1 -
Biggest issue with pig (at least for me) is ambushing and crouching.
Crouching should not be so low and slow. Her speed should be upped at least by 10%, and her viewpoint should be higher and give some benefit like enhanced hearing or something. Because I don’t see any benefit to crouching when swf know you’re coming because Piggy is no Wraith or Spirit or Freddy - you can see her a mile away which even a low rank like me can see.
Her traps are fine Pig has it down when it comes to pressure and snowball effects. It’s the before the trap part she has an issue with.0 -
@Demian said:
I would like a buff of Pig's Ambush.Since it was adjusted to increase the distance of one round of the pallet loops(2.0.0~?), her unbush often have become ineffective on chase. Ambush's dash distance and speed should be slightly buffed.
I agree, a buff to the dash attack would be very welcome.
0 -
@NoShinyPony said:
@Blueberry said:
I'd like some small buffs for Pig but making the traps more lethal isn't the way imo. If anything let's make Rule Set #2 baseline or maybe a guarenteed no key always on the first box. (...)Her biggest issues aren't her traps though, it's her crouch and ambush. She needs a higher view point on crouching and the sound on her ambush needs to be removed. (...)
Other things I'd like to see are the penalty on Amanda's Letter removed.
These are all good points. I don't agree on the removal of the "warning sound" of the dash attack, but besides that, it's a very nice summary of what should be done.
Why does it need the sound then? Survivors should have to open their eyes and be looking around just like against a Myers tier 1. Having a warning sound defeats the entire purpose of trying to be skillful and sneak up on them. Not to mention if it really bothered them that much they could simply run Premonition or Spine Chill and negate her stealth entirely.
0 -
Amanda's Letter is for all intent and purpose Vanity Mirror. I worry if we gave it the normal amount of RBTs it would cause a LOT of camping. That said I don't mind the idea of it having more Jigsaw boxes instead of just two. Much like Scratched/Vanity Mirror, it is heavily map dependent in regards to power. I only bring this up due to the constant drivel I hear about it being her worst add-on. No THAT title goes to Amanda's Secret which DEFINITELY needs a rework.0
-
@Khroalthemadbomber said:
Amanda's Letter is for all intent and purpose Vanity Mirror. I worry if we gave it the normal amount of RBTs it would cause a LOT of camping. That said I don't mind the idea of it having more Jigsaw boxes instead of just two. Much like Scratched/Vanity Mirror, it is heavily map dependent in regards to power. I only bring this up due to the constant drivel I hear about it being her worst add-on. No THAT title goes to Amanda's Secret which DEFINITELY needs a rework.It is a strange add-on, no Box Auras means you can't wait for them at the Box and force a headpop but then you get the Aura of them taking off the trap so you can go after them. It's kind of like a child making rules on the fly, ''hey you can't go after him right after getting unfrozen y6ou need to wait a minute and THEN go after him''. So you can tunnel them but only after they take off the trap.
Lore wise though, it makes sense. In the films that's actually what she did, even when they won her games she still killed them so I think this Add-on is from that.
0 -
@Blueberry said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@Blueberry said:
I'd like some small buffs for Pig but making the traps more lethal isn't the way imo. If anything let's make Rule Set #2 baseline or maybe a guarenteed no key always on the first box. (...)Her biggest issues aren't her traps though, it's her crouch and ambush. She needs a higher view point on crouching and the sound on her ambush needs to be removed. (...)
Other things I'd like to see are the penalty on Amanda's Letter removed.
These are all good points. I don't agree on the removal of the "warning sound" of the dash attack, but besides that, it's a very nice summary of what should be done.
Why does it need the sound then? Survivors should have to open their eyes and be looking around just like against a Myers tier 1. Having a warning sound defeats the entire purpose of trying to be skillful and sneak up on them. Not to mention if it really bothered them that much they could simply run Premonition or Spine Chill and negate her stealth entirely.
Part of the sound is from the movies, the roar at the beginning. But yeah, the roar takes out ALL the sneak factor so when I find someone on a Gen I just stand back up. I got 2 grabs doing that in one match, on the same person
0 -
@Blueberry said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@Blueberry said:
I'd like some small buffs for Pig but making the traps more lethal isn't the way imo. If anything let's make Rule Set #2 baseline or maybe a guarenteed no key always on the first box. (...)Her biggest issues aren't her traps though, it's her crouch and ambush. She needs a higher view point on crouching and the sound on her ambush needs to be removed. (...)
Other things I'd like to see are the penalty on Amanda's Letter removed.
These are all good points. I don't agree on the removal of the "warning sound" of the dash attack, but besides that, it's a very nice summary of what should be done.
Why does it need the sound then? Survivors should have to open their eyes and be looking around just like against a Myers tier 1.
Tier-1-Michael is way slower than a dashing Pig so the chance of escaping is different.
Yes, survivors can keep their eyes open but that doesn't help in that kind of situation if they are on The Game, Lery's or on a gen surrounded by jungle gym walls.
In these scenarios, the Pig can get so close to the survivor that despite the warning sound, they can still land a hit.
0 -
@NoShinyPony said:
@Blueberry said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@Blueberry said:
I'd like some small buffs for Pig but making the traps more lethal isn't the way imo. If anything let's make Rule Set #2 baseline or maybe a guarenteed no key always on the first box. (...)Her biggest issues aren't her traps though, it's her crouch and ambush. She needs a higher view point on crouching and the sound on her ambush needs to be removed. (...)
Other things I'd like to see are the penalty on Amanda's Letter removed.
These are all good points. I don't agree on the removal of the "warning sound" of the dash attack, but besides that, it's a very nice summary of what should be done.
Why does it need the sound then? Survivors should have to open their eyes and be looking around just like against a Myers tier 1.
Tier-1-Michael is way slower than a dashing Pig so the chance of escaping is different.
Yes, survivors can keep their eyes open but that doesn't help in that kind of situation if they are on The Game, Lery's or on a gen surrounded by jungle gym walls.
In these scenarios, the Pig can get so close to the survivor that despite the warning sound, they can still land a hit.
If the Pig is close enough that you can't outrun the ambush then YOU really f'd up and weren't paying attention to begin with.
0 -
@HatCreature said:
@Blueberry said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@Blueberry said:
I'd like some small buffs for Pig but making the traps more lethal isn't the way imo. If anything let's make Rule Set #2 baseline or maybe a guarenteed no key always on the first box. (...)Her biggest issues aren't her traps though, it's her crouch and ambush. She needs a higher view point on crouching and the sound on her ambush needs to be removed. (...)
Other things I'd like to see are the penalty on Amanda's Letter removed.
These are all good points. I don't agree on the removal of the "warning sound" of the dash attack, but besides that, it's a very nice summary of what should be done.
Why does it need the sound then? Survivors should have to open their eyes and be looking around just like against a Myers tier 1. Having a warning sound defeats the entire purpose of trying to be skillful and sneak up on them. Not to mention if it really bothered them that much they could simply run Premonition or Spine Chill and negate her stealth entirely.
Part of the sound is from the movies, the roar at the beginning. But yeah, the roar takes out ALL the sneak factor so when I find someone on a Gen I just stand back up. I got 2 grabs doing that in one match, on the same person
The theme of it is all it has going for it. The fact that uncrouching to simply M1 is the optimal play style just further illustrates how weak the ambush is.
1 -
@Blueberry said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@Blueberry said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@Blueberry said:
I'd like some small buffs for Pig but making the traps more lethal isn't the way imo. If anything let's make Rule Set #2 baseline or maybe a guarenteed no key always on the first box. (...)Her biggest issues aren't her traps though, it's her crouch and ambush. She needs a higher view point on crouching and the sound on her ambush needs to be removed. (...)
Other things I'd like to see are the penalty on Amanda's Letter removed.
These are all good points. I don't agree on the removal of the "warning sound" of the dash attack, but besides that, it's a very nice summary of what should be done.
Why does it need the sound then? Survivors should have to open their eyes and be looking around just like against a Myers tier 1.
Tier-1-Michael is way slower than a dashing Pig so the chance of escaping is different.
Yes, survivors can keep their eyes open but that doesn't help in that kind of situation if they are on The Game, Lery's or on a gen surrounded by jungle gym walls.
In these scenarios, the Pig can get so close to the survivor that despite the warning sound, they can still land a hit.
If the Pig is close enough that you can't outrun the ambush then YOU really f'd up and weren't paying attention to begin with.
Yes, that's the point of the ability. Get so close to the survs that they can't outrun the ambush.
And a surv can't necessarily always see the Pig. If there are walls, there are walls. Survs don't have wall hacks. The Pig has to make use of these situations.
0 -
@Khroalthemadbomber said:
Amanda's Letter is for all intent and purpose Vanity Mirror. I worry if we gave it the normal amount of RBTs it would cause a LOT of camping. That said I don't mind the idea of it having more Jigsaw boxes instead of just two. Much like Scratched/Vanity Mirror, it is heavily map dependent in regards to power. I only bring this up due to the constant drivel I hear about it being her worst add-on. No THAT title goes to Amanda's Secret which DEFINITELY needs a rework.Amanda's Letter, if anything, is "All-Seeing - Blood" with extra downsides tacked on. Both let you see Auras within a 12 meter radius while using their stealth abilities, but the Pig moves slower than normal while in stealth mode whereas the Wraith moves faster while in stealth mode. When the Pig originally came out, "All-Seeing - Blood" only had a radius of 8 meters, so one could have theoretically made the argument that they were trying to balance for the extra range, but now? Ehhhhhhhhhhhh I don't think so. I guess the question is "Would it be an issue if the Pig effectively had her equivalent of 'All-Seeing - Blood' knowing that she effectively had two Powers (ambushing and Reverse Bear Traps) compared to the Wraith's one?"
All that being said, though, Amanda's Secret is traaaaaaaash. I've seen a few people vouch for Amanda's Letter; I've NEVER see anyone vouch for Amanda's Secret without them taking it back once they were corrected on what it actually did. She has a number of add-ons that are not up to snuff, but that one is by far the worst one. IMO it is not worth losing the Jigsaw Box auras for 6 seconds of Survivor aura that only activates in VERY specific spots that you no longer know the locations of.
0 -
@TAG said:
@Khroalthemadbomber said:
Amanda's Letter is for all intent and purpose Vanity Mirror. I worry if we gave it the normal amount of RBTs it would cause a LOT of camping. That said I don't mind the idea of it having more Jigsaw boxes instead of just two. Much like Scratched/Vanity Mirror, it is heavily map dependent in regards to power. I only bring this up due to the constant drivel I hear about it being her worst add-on. No THAT title goes to Amanda's Secret which DEFINITELY needs a rework.Amanda's Letter, if anything, is "All-Seeing - Blood" with extra downsides tacked on. Both let you see Auras within a 12 meter radius while using their stealth abilities, but the Pig moves slower than normal while in stealth mode whereas the Wraith moves faster while in stealth mode. When the Pig originally came out, "All-Seeing - Blood" only had a radius of 8 meters, so one could have theoretically made the argument that they were trying to balance for the extra range, but now? Ehhhhhhhhhhhh I don't think so. I guess the question is "Would it be an issue if the Pig effectively had her equivalent of 'All-Seeing - Blood' knowing that she effectively had two Powers (ambushing and Reverse Bear Traps) compared to the Wraith's one?"
All that being said, though, Amanda's Secret is traaaaaaaash. I've seen a few people vouch for Amanda's Letter; I've NEVER see anyone vouch for Amanda's Secret without them taking it back once they were corrected on what it actually did. She has a number of add-ons that are not up to snuff, but that one is by far the worst one. IMO it is not worth losing the Jigsaw Box auras for 6 seconds of Survivor aura that only activates in VERY specific spots that you no longer know the locations of.
The more we talk about her Ultra Rares, the more they seem completely broken. Amanda's Secret could be an Ultra IF they let you keep the Auras of the Boxes. Rules 2 should be Base unless they use my idea. Amanda's Letter would probably be better off if they added in something with her Ambush, sacrifice the fewer traps for a buffed Ambush that is an instadown? That would also warrant the slower speed.
0 -
Amanda's Letter is broken as hell if you're decent at the ambush. That attacked with the cassette and the new base crouch speed makes things quite easy and it's rare I go through a match on a proper map with it without getting a 4k.0
-
@Khroalthemadbomber said:
Amanda's Letter is broken as hell if you're decent at the ambush. That attacked with the cassette and the new base crouch speed makes things quite easy and it's rare I go through a match on a proper map with it without getting a 4k.A normal map? I can see this dominating on Rotten Fields but Red Forest, Disturbed Ward? I get those maps a lot. I've been stacking the VHS and the Medical File and the Ambush is faster but I still prefer just standing up.
0 -
As I said on maps that do best for it like Scratched Mirror Myers, IE Leiry's or The Game, it works like magic. Also like Scratched Mirror Myers, it loses a lot of it's power when survivors have consistent LoS and no means for you to break it.1
-
@NoShinyPony said:
@Blueberry said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@Blueberry said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@Blueberry said:
I'd like some small buffs for Pig but making the traps more lethal isn't the way imo. If anything let's make Rule Set #2 baseline or maybe a guarenteed no key always on the first box. (...)Her biggest issues aren't her traps though, it's her crouch and ambush. She needs a higher view point on crouching and the sound on her ambush needs to be removed. (...)
Other things I'd like to see are the penalty on Amanda's Letter removed.
These are all good points. I don't agree on the removal of the "warning sound" of the dash attack, but besides that, it's a very nice summary of what should be done.
Why does it need the sound then? Survivors should have to open their eyes and be looking around just like against a Myers tier 1.
Tier-1-Michael is way slower than a dashing Pig so the chance of escaping is different.
Yes, survivors can keep their eyes open but that doesn't help in that kind of situation if they are on The Game, Lery's or on a gen surrounded by jungle gym walls.
In these scenarios, the Pig can get so close to the survivor that despite the warning sound, they can still land a hit.
If the Pig is close enough that you can't outrun the ambush then YOU really f'd up and weren't paying attention to begin with.
Yes, that's the point of the ability. Get so close to the survs that they can't outrun the ambush.
And a surv can't necessarily always see the Pig. If there are walls, there are walls. Survs don't have wall hacks. The Pig has to make use of these situations.
Exactly my point. Which is why the roar noise isn't needed.
0 -
@Khroalthemadbomber said:
As I said on maps that do best for it like Scratched Mirror Myers, IE Leiry's or The Game, it works like magic. Also like Scratched Mirror Myers, it loses a lot of it's power when survivors have consistent LoS and no means for you to break it.That sounds less "broken" and more "situational".
0 -
In fact amanda's secret is ace at loops or pallets.
You can monitor where is going the survivor.
If he leaves the loop you lose less time. If he stays , as soon as he makes a mistake you can catch him because you know where he is going.
Take control of the pallet and etheir they leave or it's a free stab.
But still the cost for amanda's letter is too high.1 -
@agony_deluxe said:
In fact amanda's secret is ace at loops or pallets.
You can monitor where is going the survivor.
If he leaves the loop you lose less time. If he stays , as soon as he makes a mistake you can catch him because you know where he is going.Take control of the pallet and etheir they leave or it's a free stab.
But still the cost for amanda's letter is too high.
Agreed. It's good, but not good enough to warrant the downsides they put on it.
1 -
The way I see it, if Wraith can see auras within a 12-m radius without a penalty, so should Pig. I don't think the RBTs are enough of a game changer to really justify additional downsides, or at least downsides on the level of the current Amanda's Letter.Blueberry said:@agony_deluxe said:
In fact amanda's secret is ace at loops or pallets.
You can monitor where is going the survivor.
If he leaves the loop you lose less time. If he stays , as soon as he makes a mistake you can catch him because you know where he is going.Take control of the pallet and etheir they leave or it's a free stab.
But still the cost for amanda's letter is too high.
Agreed. It's good, but not good enough to warrant the downsides they put on it.
2
