http://dbd.game/killswitch
I don't think Go Next prevention will work
I'll get straight to the point. The Go Next prevention measure isn't going to work for several reasons.
First you have to know that most of the people who do Go Next are NOT playing to generate Blood Points. In fact, they don't care about BPs; what matters for them is winning the match (many even have the mentality of simply wanting to humiliate the killer, they don't even care about help the teammates).
This leads me to the conclusion that these people will constantly use lucky offerings to be able to use Go Next. What does this mean? They'll still have opportunities to reach phase two on hook.
What will happen if they're not allowed to reach phase two and the other teammates unhook them? The same thing that's already happening when we prevent them from doing Go Next: Survivors will go AFK or sabotage their team.
In other words, they'll blow up engines, they'll throw pallets that the killer will break, they'll be running after the killer so they can hang them again. Of course, the killer isn't to blame for this happening and will take the opportunity to get rid of a survivor, but then the game will be doomed from the start; it will be unplayable.
As a soloQ player, I've had plenty of matches where one or two players just don't want to play anymore, and no amount of human power can force them to. Obviously, for killers, these are easy matches, and they'll get rid of them if they want to. But as a soloQ survivor, I have to say that when you get five matches in a row like that, it's frustrating, annoying, and it makes you quit and go play anything else.
This is something that ALREADY HAPPENS. And I don't see how the measure they want to take will make the games any different. SoloQ is already hell... and honestly, this isn't going to help improve it.
And what will happen? You won't be able to report a survivor for attempting to Go next if the survivor has a lucky offering because their play will be justified by saying they had said offering.
And if I report it, how am I going to prove that, even if they have the perk or the offering, they performed a GO Next? Will I have to record each of my matches to submit a ticket?
So far, I've reported Go Nexts from several teammates many times and have NEVER received feedback about it. I think it's going to be more complicated to report the unsportsmanlike behavior this time.
I say this because if people are carrying a Lucky Offering and the Slippery Meat perk and are reported for attempting a Go Next when they actually wanted to use their perk, what will happen? Nothing, because their attempt is justified? So... what will happen if they're carrying this but actually intended a Go Next, but it can't be taken into account because they're carrying that combination? Do you understand what I mean? In those scenarios, what will be the key to determining who deserves a penalty and who doesn't?
Comments
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That action alone of being picked off a gen is still wasting more of the killers time than just offing oneself on hook….
I can't speak for everyone but killers don't like when survivors rage-quit on first hook either. It's lame, takes the fun out of the game, and half the time it makes the rest of the survivors give up. It's not fun for anyone involved. Anyone who is the first person downed that gives up like that, needs to grow up. If they follow through on the new mechanic, and I come across someone obviously trying to get killed to "go-next" I won't be giving them that satisfaction. I'll be holding them hostage for the rest of the trial. Either they can take a DC penalty, or they can start working on gens.
Post edited by BoxGhost on2 -
Killers don't like it cause it ruins their power fantasy and your post is literally a proof of that LMAO
Survivors also don't like getting slugged, camped and tunneled, they don't like going against insanely broken killers designed to 4k every single match, they don't like playing on maps that are a guaranteed 4k, they don't like having to repair a billion gens cause the killer is running full regression, rhey don't like automatically losing what's supposed to be a 50/50 mindgame cause the killer has aura reading, they don't like a killer making a ridiculous comeback after doing bad the whole match thanks to stuff like Devour Hope or endgame perks etc. etc., but sure, survivors should DEFINITELY be really concerned about how the killers feel when survivors go next in miserable matches.
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Sure, we can't force anyone to play a match they don't want to play, but why would they even load into a match if they don't want to play? The point of this game is to be thrown into a game with 1 of 40 or more killers, any map, and three random teammates. If you load into the game with these set conditions, is it not fair to expect you to play with said conditions?
Post edited by BoxGhost on12 -
No one loads into a Solo Q match wanting to play against some comp wannabe Nurse or Blight running 4 regression perks on Haddonfield. Just like no one loads into a match to play with teammates who refuse to do gens while also not knowing how to put up a chase longer than 10 seconds.
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The system is gonna detect that and ban you
Post edited by BoxGhost on-3 -
"The same thing that's already happening when we prevent them from doing Go Next: Survivors will go AFK or sabotage their team."
They will get penalized and a disconnection penalty. Throwing the game is a reportable offense such as intentionally blowing up gens and throwing all the pallets.
I believe you might be overthinking this a bit too much. All the obvious ways to go next the system will be able to detect that and actively punish players for this.
As of right now go next reports don't do anything, but they will when this hits live I presume. The most frustrating thing right now in SOLO Q is the people who just Go Next. Its terrible. I am glad this feature in coming into play to help prevent that. I am sure down the road Luck offerings will be changed.
Throwing the game for other survivors is just inconsiderate. You ruin their experience to have fun.
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Of course not, but you load into each match knowing that there is the possibility of a wannabe nurse or blight rng 4 regression perks on Haddonfield. You load into the match knowing that you could be thrust into a scenario where you don't have fun, based on the combination of factors you get stuck with. What do you do? You play anyways, this is the game you readied up for. You didn't ready up for the most fun you have ever had with a perfect killer on a perfect map ending with you escaping, no, you readied up for the game that can't guarantee you fun and threw a hissy fit because you didn't have fun. You won't always have fun, this game can't be perfect, and if you can't accept that then you shouldn't queue up for another match, go play a single player game that can guarantee you fun.
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As I mentioned in the post, slugging them is pointless (this is already done by killers) because the match is already lost for the survivors and it's boring. The survivors are one less in early game, and many will probably let themselves die or the killer will end the game quickly because being 3 surivivors with 4 or 5 gens… there's nothing you can do. That's what I mean by this already happening and the measure they want to take isn't going to help.
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Uninstall the game if you're so obsessed with quitting it.
Post edited by BoxGhost on8 -
No it won't. If they tried implementing a system that punishes you for throwing the match, the new players couldn't play a single match without getting a DC penalty lmao
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Do you want me to start listing off all the survivor perk combinations too, im confused? Do you just want to play against an empty husk that stands there cause it sounds like you have issues with LITERALLY everything in the killers toolkits...
You honestly sound like you don't like the game? So like maybe don't play it?
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I really hope it's not based purely on how quickly a survivor died
There's a nightmare scenario in which one dude gets mega tunnelled and gets punished by the game for it. I highly doubt this will happen but, this is DBD stuff like this slips through the cracks at times
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I can tell you that I've reported teammate for sabotaging the team in these situations (throwing tantrums because they weren't allowed to do the Go next), and so far I haven't received a single piece of feedback about it. That's why I'm concerned.
So, if they decide to implement this, only time will tell if it works. But its not overthinking. I believe it's always important to be clear about these types of things so the devs can take them into account.-5 -
I'm going to take a wild guess and predict that some of us daftie humans in the player community will adapt and be able to game the 'AI' 'go next detection', and that innocent players will routinely be punished so that only the most guillible inexperienced go nexters will actually be affected as intended.
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"I can tell you that I've reported teammate for sabotaging the team in these situations (throwing tantrums because they weren't allowed to do the Go next), and so far I haven't received a single piece of feedback about it. "
I have already stated that. Currently, where it stands feedback/action is not taken. However, this will change when this new feature goes live.
The good news is they can always add in new ways for the system to detect players who are just giving up. It wont be hard and it wont take long. The system just needs to role out and give it time.
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Except that all the combos that killers cry about all have easy counterplay, but that's besides the point. The point is that you want the survivors to feel bad about going next cause the killers don't like it when it happens when killers constantly go out of their way to make the matches miserable for survivors. Hell, killers making the matches miserable is a good chunk of reason why many people go next in the first place, but they shouldn't do it so the killers can have fun? Give me a break.
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Entitled, much? Why even play anymore if you have mentality like this?
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I actually said that someone giving up isn't fun for ANYONE, and iterated why its not fun for the killer either. You just chose to misconstrue my message. Thats on you.
Killers objectives is literally to kill the survivors. I'm seriously not able to comprehend your issue otherwise than not liking playing against killers period. Do you just expect them to not play? Ignore you? Let you get the gens done? Seriously, cause that's what it sounds like you want.
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Won't work without addressing issues.
Making the playerbase more miserable probably won't help things.
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Exactly. The people doing this are already frustrated. It's funny it is celebrated and BHVR is not even considering why they do it. Games feeling unwinnable should have been an urgent priority.
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Sluging has counters such as unbreakable, flip-flop.
Tunneling has off the record.
CCamping Is a tough one, but there is anti camping functions and if the killer is going to wait 70s on a hook states that's an awful lot of gen progress.
You can do gen rush builds do counter gen regression.
Blocking aura reading with things like distortion.
End game builds is often the funniest thing I hear as an argument, cause it means the killer has been perkless all game.
And hex's, my opinion is hexs aren't that great cause they have set spawn locations and are often easy to find. Not to mention maps, detectives hunch, etc.
But yes, none of those things are counterable
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Pretty based take, I'm leaning towards it too atm. The 'go next prevention' really hurts the more experienced survivor players, as its pretty clear when a match is over or your team isn't trying to win/doing everything but gens/going down in 10 second chases, etc.
Whenever I load into a match, I always play to win. Its not like any of us are saying 'oh the first thing a survivor does wrong, I should be able to go next and leave the match'. Its a combined # of problems throughout the match.
The fun comes in the form of a coordinated team, or teammates that want to win just as much as I do vs a killer that also wants to win and play effectively. And when it all comes together, the matches are good!
But I shouldn't be forced to sit in a match when I have teammates that waste my time, don't play to win, meme around, do everything but whats needed.
IDK about others but 99% of the time I've ever wanted to or have 'gone next', its been due to my teammates and not the killer (minus Skull Merchant meta). Its not just annoying to have teammates that are lower caliber or don't play to win, but also just plain frustrating.
And if your rationale is 'well why don't you get together in an SWF and then you fix all those problems?' No I shouldn't have to. I like solo que and the idea I'm paired with strangers who come together to win. Without voice chat. Without call outs. Without anything cheap to rely on besides in-game mechanics and tools. I shouldn't be forced to go SWF b/c I want teammates to play the game properly.
I don't blame people that want to meme or mess around - as long as they don't blame me for 'going next' b/c I don't want my time wasted.
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Its not like any of us are saying 'oh the first thing a survivor does wrong, I should be able to go next and leave the match'.
You would be surprised.
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The problem is certain people's definition of winning. If I die throughout a trial, but a couple of my teammates escape, that's a win. Every match can't be a 4k or 4e, and in my experience they more often than not aren't. Expecting otherwise (all 4e's or 4k's) would make the other side not play. Conversely if I get one kill, or manage to put pressure on survivors all throughout the game, that's a win.
People (generally strictly 100% survivor/killer mains) need to temper their expectations and be expect to lose some matches. It's going to happen.
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I know there are a lot of people like that..I know. I strictly solo que surv. To those people I do hope the 'go next' system kicks in and penalizes them. Thats why I mentioned it. I despise those types of players.
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I stand by that a better aid is giving us a built in 1 or 2 chance that does not take away health. Before, when you'd try it would hurt your hook health thus going next faster. However, sometimes I try my attempts bc my teammates will refuse to get me for one reason or another. That way it won't penalize people for trying but also help prevent going next as fast. Or some variation of that.
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Killer can force you to stay in the game by not killing you. If you throw a tantrum you can spend time on the floor. When the gates are powered you can watch your teammates leave from the hook.
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That's an interesting idea. That is: having your number of chances (even if you have perks and offerings or not), but not having your blood bar decrease if you fail or force you into the second phase. That would be interesting because people who put offerings or are using their perks have the opportunity to use them without the stigma of thinking they're doing a Go Next. The chances of getting away with it are there, just like always, but if you fail, the bar stays the same and you have to wait for your teammates to come for you. Or if they don't go unhook you, well... unfortunately you'll enter the second phase at 70 seconds. But it's fair. And it doesn't give someone who wants to do a Go Next a chance to advance their bar just for the fun of it.
That is to say, it won't change that there are people who will still do the Go Next, but they will no longer have the tools to justify it, the dynamic would give the benefit of the doubt to everyone, at least until they get unhook and see what they do next (and in that case, report them for unsportsmanlike conduct if they throw a tantrum or sabotage the team, but if they play normally, then everything is fine). And in case they want to do the Go Next just for the sake of it, they won't be able to make their bar advance just because of the offering or the perk. In addition, this dynamic would give play to perks like Slippery Meat, which people hardly ever use and could be like a roulette wheel in the game and at least something fun to use. Again, this isn't going to prevent the Go Next player from ruining the game, sadly... but at least it would add an interesting dynamic to the hook and a perk that almost no one uses. Perhaps the perk wouldn't give three more chances, maybe one more, but at least it adds dynamic to the hook and a fun roulette. I don't know, it's something to think about.1 -
I don't think so i'm not wasting perk slots for slippery meat just so I can suicide faster instead of waiting 30 seconds, luck was completely useless but now a slippery meat—up the ante build might be fun to try…
only mistake is enabling suicide if you run luck offering, you already know everyone will do that, it should be perks only
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So basically what we have now, free attempts at self unhooking but instead with no consequences for the survivor?
How exactly is that fair? What your suggesting is that every survivor, regardless of perk or offering, would have 2 free unhook attempts every trial. Nothing to deter them from doing so? Yup, that sounds fair and reasonable. 🙄
This does nothing to prevent people from going next except forces them to stay in the game... the exact thing that BHVR's change does... You are an incredibly confusing individual.
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I don't think it'll be the worst thing in the world in terms of player agency. All this talk about removing the ability to ######### on hook makes it seem like you're committing to a 40+ minute match of Dota 2 or something and that isn't the case at all. Most DBD matches will go for ~10 minutes, maybe 15-20 on an exceptionally long match but that isn't a lot of time to commit. It can't be THAT bad to just auto-pilot for a match that you aren't particularly interested in.
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Those things are all bannable behavior though.
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Killers don't like it cause it ruins their power fantasy and your post is literally a proof of that LMAO
Ruins the power fantasy by instantly making a match a 1v3?
Nah I don't like cause a survivor will throw the game for other survivors and instead of taking a break, they will queue for the next game immediately and throw the next.
Survivors also don't like getting slugged, camped and tunneled
Fair
they don't like going against insanely broken killers designed to 4k every single match
Survivors will give up against any killer
they don't like playing on maps that are a guaranteed 4k
Survivors will give up even on the map they bring.
rhey don't like automatically losing what's supposed to be a 50/50 mindgame cause the killer has aura reading,
Survivors dont like losing a 50/50 even when the killer doesnt have aura reading. Hell they didn't like losing when running infinite-loops back in the day.
they don't like a killer making a ridiculous comeback after doing bad the whole match thanks to stuff like Devour Hope or endgame perks etc.
I'm confused about this, the whole point of killer endgame perks is for the chance of making a comeback. Change all the perks that allow the killer to make a comeback and they become useless.
I mean there are ways to counter Devour and Noed.
Survivors and killers have the mentality to rage quit the millisecond a game isn't in their favor, and this mentality really needs to stop.
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Hahaha. I guess I am. Thanks for your comment.
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I agree with the sentiment. This is why the developers need to ascertain why people want to leave a match and address those issues. Go-Next is a band-aid for the symptom but doesn't address the cause. I want to go next when The Killer is laggy! Fortunately, it's not every match, but regardless, it's not enjoyable or fair.
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People think perfection is more achievable than it really is. Go nexting is annoying but not game killing, all this scarce dev time going on to prevent the unpreventable, punishing players who want to leave unenjoyable games or who cannot control their emotions, all that will be wasted only to make the game similarly imperfect in a different way.
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have you played literally any other multiplayer game
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So instead of that person playing a game that kasts all of 10 minutes (or if its as big a stomp as you are acting like these games are, probably far less), they ruin it for the 4 other people and thus making it unenjoyable for those individuals? Yes, seems reasonable.
My friends and I had 3 games in a row where our one random was the 1st person hooked and in all 3 games they 'went next'. Woe is me, im the first person hooked at... Those were hardly unwinnable scenarios. It was, however, a waste of 30+ minutes of our time. That behaviour is not fair, so again... take the DC penalty or get on a Gen.
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I wonder this all the time considering some of the attitudes I see in this game's community.
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We agree that go nexting is annoying, let's be clear. It's not new though it's been there for years, it didn't suddenly become an issue because a recent bunch of devs decided to try to 'fix it'. It's something also that would be nice if they did 'fix', unlike for instance their mad map changes. I just don't think they are going to be able to get rid of it at all, and they won't be able to reduce it significantly without making the game worse in a different way. My view is that it's a 'tolerable imperfection', an inevitability in any part of life, esp. an online game.
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im playing the ptb, first match i got hooke FIRST and nobody tried to come for a save despite the killer not camping, tried to unhook myself and failed, then i just stopped doing the struggle skill checks and STILL NOBODY CAME
Basically got hooked and abandoned the whole trial that i could have just left before, now you just spend minutes doom scrolling on facebook because people on soloq cant rescue…
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Think you are forgetting three other people.
Post edited by BoxGhost on2 -
"Hmm, why people don't want to play our game? Should we find out why? Nah, let's just make it harder to not play the game, and if they still do let's ban them temporarily so they really can't play our game"
It totally works
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The "why" is the main problem and has been stated many many times now
The "why" runs the gauntlet from "I was tunneled" to "ohh fk it's pig" to "I got this map" to "I got caught under 30 seconds" to "ohh fk it's nurse" to "I got caught first" to "my build doesn't work against this specific killer" to "the killer had lightborn"... Do we NEED to go on?
At this point, yes something needs done since a lot of the listed ones are simply something that can happen when normally "playing the game".
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Well, I think it IS going to work. Two things to point out here:
- About the luck offerings… I don't think people will use them all the time just to be able to go next and I believe the prevention will still reduce going next considerably even with them, but I do think some will want to abuse it, and that's why I think the best course of action would be to completely remove luck offerings, rework Up the Ante and buff Slippery Meat accordingly. Normally, no one even uses these stuff today if not to combine them with sloppy butcher anyway, why bring luck offerings if you're not planning on taking the chance while hooked? Sloppy I think it might be fine then because people would have to sacrifice 25% of their build for that, which is quite unlikely. I won't have a problem with the perk being reworked, tho.
- About trolling after being unhooked, what a lot of people seem to ignore is that, unlike giving up on hook, that takes TIME, EFFORT and risks a BAN. Going next isn't so common just because some survivors gave up easily, it became common because the game has a mechanic that allows them to do it almost instantly, just by pressing M1 3 times and letting go, and for free with no risk of ban. With that being gone, going next will become less common.
No one can get banned for giving up on hook, but they can get banned for working with the killer or refuse to participate in normal gameplay, just like any other game, and now there will be even a new system detecting if someone is trying to go next, which will help against this.
Trolling and atracting the killer's attention to get killed as soon as possible also takes more than just pressing M1 3 times and letting go, and doesn't garantee the killer will sacrifice them. If they go around dropping pallets, vault-spamming, pointing at the hook, whatever they are doing, as simple and repetitive it can be, it is still more effort than just pressing M1 or going for the leave button, so most Go-Nexters will realize it's a risky waste of time and just press the "Leave Match" button instead, which gives them the penalty and leaves a bot behind, which is far better than having one survivor less.
And finaly, it takes time. Let's not forget, we call it "Go Next" because people doing it are trying to GO to the NEXT match AS QUICK AS POSSIBLE, not having to stay for a full game. The only reason they did it with hook give-ups instead of DCing was to avoid taking a time penalty that prevented from joining another match. Well, if they stay on the match trolling, they STILL aren't going to the next match. And considering how early people try to DC sometimes and how long games can take, that would often take MORE time than the DC penalty would. That already disincentivizes it.
Finally, I must say that people choosing to DC instead of insisting on trolling is something that ALREADY HAPPENS too! Yeah, trolling apter failing to go next is a thing that sometimes happens, but multiple times I've also seen (while playing both as killer and survivor) survivors DC when they fail to give up on hook, leaving a bot behind. I have also seen survivors try to give up on hook, but being rescued on second stage, and still playing normally for a long time until the killers get them a second time. And finally, one thing that I've even described on another thread before, there was a match recently where I refused again and again to kill a survivor that tried to give up on hook but got rescued before she could. At some point, she just started doing gens and working towards the objective. In the end, it was a long and pretty good close match, and a survivor even made a positive comment about it in the end. For me, that was enough to know it was worth it. If that survivor had succeeded to give up on hook, it would just have been just an awful match where survivors got destroyed with no chance to fight back and hated it.
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Dunno , but with his attitude maybe he should
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There's also a fact that regardless of what killer and what loadout they are using, people can still camp, tunnel, slug and do many more things. Maybe in the future when they address these "issues" people will think twice before giving up right off the bat
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As it is rn on the ptb they are just bodyblocking the killer until they get hooked again, or they afk and thats it lol, we say its miserable if they off themselves but keeping them alive also doesnt bring a thing to the table, they wont be playing lol, i know its controversial but if they quit normally and are replaced with bots at least the game goes on for the remaining players.
(now someone will come and say people will leave for any reason, its still less damaging than having no one there, the bot is best than nothing, if they all became bots the killer would just quit and thats it no change in mmr for only bot games)
So tl dr, let people DC to get replaced by bots, use as penalty no rank progress or rank loss + lose of item and bp, if they dc 2 games in a row a 3min suspension (that doesnt buildup) and thats it.
The way it is RN isnt working so why not accept some aspects of it
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I think they had to do something and it is a very difficult thing to manage, as you really can never truly determine if someone is throwing to get out of a match faster, and this is the problem…
I don't think it will really work either, as you cant make someone actively want to participate in a match they desperately want out of. If they do throw, how do you prove they are intentionally playing badly and trying to get killed etc?
It delays them getting out of a match but that is all it will do.
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Maybe for those of us that used the opportunity for legit reasons, conditions should be allowed? I think its a little punishing for players who might have been able to turn the game around if that opportunity worked. For example:
Everyone is injured / slugged, you can 4% and you have a possibility of changing the game around?
Maybe, no one has come to save you, allow ONE chance at the end before 2nd stage if no one is nearby?
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