http://dbd.game/killswitch
What will killers do after all the strategies have been removed from the game?
Once all these anti-stuff are implemented, what are the killers supposed to do after SWF dominates games further? What can you do against sabo squads? The devs are cooking their own game because they don't play on this level. When the devs streamed themselves playing dbd, you know they are bad. They have no experience in the top brackets.
They don't play their own game on this level. If they did, they would understand why we gotta be strategic. They just don't get it. They would rather listen to the survivors and the survivors act like it's not like that.
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You dont even know what those changes will be. And most of the games you can win without any tunneling, camping or whatever. SOMETIMES it is needed, yes. But not all the time.
MAYBE we can wait what exactly will be changed? Then we can doompost that Killers will be leaving or whatever, just to realize that it was all an overreaction. The usual stuff.
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You don't have to be a rocket scientist to accurately predict the outcome especially with these devs.
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I mean, the last time they announced "anti camping" we got anti FACE camping.
I don't think anyone has found it difficult to stand 5 extra feet farther from the hook, eventually (take your time, no rush) to completely bypass this feature.
So, I genuinely don't think your "the sky is falling, everything is awful" approach has any basis in history, let alone the zero details they've actually announced so far.
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As @Aven_Fallen points out we haven't seen nor tested out these changes yet.
We should keep in mind they've never balanced the game around that mythical top high MMR area either. It's always been more about that most players experience in their trials, not what's possible by the extreme experts that make up like 6% of the whole or so.
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As @Aven_Fallen said, we haven't even tested anything yet.
And whatever it is, it won't be the end of the world for killers. Just look at the AFC.
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I imagine they'll eventually find themselves in an MMR bracket better suited for them, especially with the upcoming SBMM improvements.
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Survivors will get a few crumbs and the Devs will go back to catering to Killers. You'll be fine.
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I highly doubt they'll introduce anything nearly as broken as you're picturing. Things like slugging have a place in the game… the devs know this and arnt going to do anything that would essentially remove the option to slug a survivor when it's necessary, such as against Sabo squads.
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I honestly feel the anti-slug will be akin to 2v8's where only long term slugging is punished.
Like I feel it's not gonna take away killer agency, just stop these tactics being abused like by Twins etc.0 -
I'm sure there will be balancing if needed. Unenjoyable aspects of the game need to be addressed.
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I am not that worried because of BHVRs track record. Example: the AFC mechanic.
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Its funny this is never said to survivors.
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Because it's not as relevant to survivors. Even Peanits (developer) said that strats like tunnelling can increase a killers MMR quickly and land them in a bracket where they feel they can't compete unless they keep tunnelling. I'm not sure of what strategies survivors can employ to increase their MMR at that rate. OPs post is even about survivors at high MMR being too strong, which just proves my point. I don't see any killers complaining about low skill survivors in high MMR brackets. Because it doesn't happen to the extent you see it happen with killers.
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We will adapt. We will overcome... Or we will pick up another game and survivors can have their 15 minute queue times from the MFT meta back
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Exactly this tbh, Killers who've reached a higher MMR by using these strategies, will slowly adjust to an MMR where they're more able to compete without them, same for Survivors with the extreme hiding. Their MMR will all balance out.
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- in short, a sort of "judgment day", there we will really understand who knows how to play and who doesn't🤣
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It’s not that survivors are overpowered or that swift strategies are too strong—it’s the fact that when a killer’s MMR gets artificially boosted by these tactics, they end up relying so heavily on these strategies for an easy win that they can't even recognize it anymore. It’s become almost second nature. The player base has gotten more frustrated, and skill levels are dropping. Take the Chaos Shuffle, for example: even with some of the best perks in the game, the killer still resorts to tunneling and camping. It’s become clear that no matter how powerful the perks are, they’re still stuck in these toxic strategies.
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Why are those strategies inherently problematic though? If so why is patching out normal gameplay exclusive to killer
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I'm Gonna be honest. I used to feel just like you. When they added basekit endurance I thought "this is just making borrowed time basekit and it's gonna make survivors unstoppable " but it worked out and I still get kills. When they added a anticamp meter I thought "I will be losing survivors to this all the time" but then I realized that I didn't actually spend enough time near hooks for it to matter. So far they have actually helped make the game better....hurts to say that but these are positive changes even if I miss things like grabbing at hook or old basement Bubba.
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Ok, so let me question you something… the top tier of dbd nowadays, there are a certain number of players who balance itself, this guys, sweating as killers tunneling to be able to get equal to decent level SWFs, what will happen when they drop? because there are few killers on top ranks that NEVER use this in a game which means there are very few killers able of doing that against that type of survivors… theyll have 3 hour queues? or will they play against the closest free killer?because right now you are just showing how killers will stop being bullied on top tier and will begin being bullied in middle tier, but without another killer mechanic to make non tunneling players stronger, there will be no rise of non toxic killers, just an even bigger spite of killers against survivors, because survivors doenst know how to be health winners for #########
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Two things wrong with this:
- Do you honestly think your average killer main is going to get pummeled over and over and over and keep playing until they "slowly adjust to an MMR where they're more able to compete without them?" How long will that take? Weeks? Months? I'm truly asking a question. Do you honestly think that your average casual DBD player is going to just… lose 8/10 games for weeks or months on end while getting bagged at the gates repeatedly and keep playing the game?
- None of this actually matters because MMR is a joke. In back to back games, I can go against the sweatiest 4 man juicers with 10k hours apiece, then go against a squad that doesn't have 1k hours combined and wouldn't work a gen if their life depended on it. So if this is the route you're going to take, and the attitude that BHVR is going to have, then at least tighten matchmaking so that if I'm deemed "not good enough" to face these kinds of survivors, then I never have to actually play against them. And if that means that these juicer squads have to sit in queue for 30 minutes waiting for Lilith Omen or a comp Nurse because there aren't any killers that are "good enough" to face survivors of that quality, then so be it.
But we all know what's really going to happen. You're going to take away any chance I have of actually facing these kinds of squads or snowballing my way into a 2 or 3k, but still leave matchmaking as it is so I still have to play against them… even after my "MMR balances to its proper level."
3 - Do you honestly think your average killer main is going to get pummeled over and over and over and keep playing until they "slowly adjust to an MMR where they're more able to compete without them?" How long will that take? Weeks? Months? I'm truly asking a question. Do you honestly think that your average casual DBD player is going to just… lose 8/10 games for weeks or months on end while getting bagged at the gates repeatedly and keep playing the game?
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but why are we implementing further anti-tunneling, anti-camping and anti-slugging changes without pushing SBMM changes through first? I mean these strats are already extremely situational in actual high skill levels
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Because that's how BHVR does balancing. They only care about killer QoL when enough killers stop playing that it affects survivor queues. That's how it's always been done. That's why we got 6.1 with faster gen kicks and longer gen repairs, etc. Because before 6.1, killer was so miserable that survivors started seeing 15-20 minute queues. Which is exactly what's going to happen once all of these survivor buffs start rolling in.
Instead of "losing their way into a proper MMR over the course of weeks or months," a lot of killers are just going to play survivor or stop playing. And it won't be a conscious thing. They'll see DBD in their Steam Library or PS desktop, think about playing, maybe even boot it up. Then they'll get 4 outed and bagged at the gates, remember why they don't really play the game anymore, and go play something else.
And after 6 months of slowly hemorrhaging killer players, survivor queues will start to hit 10+ minutes, and BHVR will do an emergency killer buff patch that survivors will complain about for the next three years as the cycle repeats.
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It's not though.
She even mentions "anti hiding" which is pretty much the nail in the coffin for survivor stealth gameplay.
We've also had healing, or maybe the better description is the "always be healthy" meta deleted with coh and medkit reworks.
And, lets not forget that people said literally this exact "you're boosted" and "survivors will completely fall apart without it" when dead hard (both times), and MFT got nerfed.
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Im pretty sure that they dont want to remove these strategies but simply adjust them. To me, at least, it kind of makes sense.
It is easier for the Killer to tunnel than it is for the Survivors to actively counter the tunnel, so maybe it should be tuned a bit so it feels a bit more even, especially with SoloQ in mind.
Keep in mind that we do not know the exact changes that we are going to get, and BHVR has already come out to say that if Killrates become an issue after the changes that they will be buffing Killers to compensate.
Post edited by Iron_Cutlass on1 -
Have BHVR ever truly considered why killers resort to these strategies?
No, I suppose not. So let me explain.
The game simply isn’t designed with a 12-hook playstyle in mind. Do BHVR realize how fast generators are completed? And how much constant micro and macro management a killer has to handle to keep up? It’s overwhelming.
I'm not even touching on the massive power gaps between killers, that’s a whole topic on its own.
If this is truly the direction BHVR want the game to go, that’s fine. But in that case, killers need proper tools to handle the pace and pressure of the match. Right now, matches often feel like they're over two minutes after the first chase, with gens flying before the killer can even react.
Nearly every slowdown option, whether directly or indirectly providing time management, has been nerfed. And then BHVR and only Survivor players wonders/asks: “Why are killers tunneling and camping?”
Maybe start by asking yourselves what options you’ve actually left them with.
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She even mentions "anti hiding" which is pretty much the nail in the coffin for survivor stealth gameplay.
they are introducing mechanic to prevent excessive hiding without any objective being done for prolonged periods, not anti-stealth mechanic at all. Stealthing will still be very viable and useful.
We've also had healing, or maybe the better description is the "always be healthy" meta deleted with coh and medkit reworks.
game is literally extremely close to the state when CoH was in it's old state in terms of healing. Medkits are still very strong and quite literally the most powerful item in the game, along with Syringes being absolutely unfair free reset addon. Healing is still meta.
Now contrary to all these, tunneling has two crucial basic gameplay counters:
- chase knowledge;
- not unhooking in killer's face.
Now be honest, but absolutely dead honest, what is the percentage of matches where you see people fullfilling these two? Average soloQ match against tunneler is literally seeing people fall like pigeons when shot less than 1 minute into the match. Even worse, there are so many people who just prey close to hook waiting for the killer to hook so that they can instantly unhook survivor before killer even leaves 32m radius.
Also, tunneling is a basic strategy and comparing it to usage of perks is beyond wild.
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I still don't understand how the phase 2 changes are suppose to happen, without survivors weaponizing it to "fight back" at the killer…
We had a PTB that punished killers for slugging, and survivors purposely created situations where the killer can't hook the survivors, to punish the killer for slugging, even though the killer literally didn't have the option to hook the survivors.
And whenever we have anti-tunneling in the form of endurance, survivors will weaponize that too, by aggressively bodyblocking the killer, if the killer is trying to chase someone else.
Anti-tunneling mechanics should deactivate if the survivor is intentionally bodyblocking the killer. And since the Go Next mechanic should know if a survivor is trying to escape a chase, or if a survivor is purposely throwing themselves at the killer, the game should already know if a survivor is intentionally bodyblocking.
Post edited by Coffeecrashing on2 -
I seriously doubt they would ever remove tunnelling, camping and slugging from the game entirely. I mean, have they not been a core part of the Killer game play loop since the very beginning? They want the Killer to have comeback mechanics because they have to be a threat to the Survivors right up until they leave through the exit gates. The biggest frustration is when Killers choose to use these strategies from the very start of the match.
So if anything, I think they will probably try to limit their early game effectiveness. That's the aspect I think most Survivors dislike the most. The fact that they can stop you playing the game that you loaded into. Survivors don't want to be taking a dirt nap with the rest of the team at 5 gens or camped to second stage, not do they want to be tunnelled out before they're able to touch a gen, get some unhooks, progress their challenges etc. You can argue that being tunnelled is still playing the game, but a Survivor won't get more than 10K BP from such a game.
Anyway, we'll see what they have planned, but the AFC and gen kick limit turned out to be pretty conservative changes imho. So I wouldn't expect anything too radical.
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Why the doompost? We don't even know what form these changes will take yet, but I'll bite.
As someone else said, killers will eventually find themselves in brackets where they can comfortably play without relying on these strategies. SWF becomes a problem when it's a 4-man running meta perks and using clock callouts to keep track of map resources and the killer. It's not really a problem when it's a trio and one of them is constantly trying to befriend the killer.
As for sabo squads, with how little distance there is between hooks, you're almost never going to find yourself in a position where a sabo squad is going to be a problem.
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It's absolutely adorable that you think MMR brackets mean anything. Just today I've gotten a SEAL Team SWF with thousands of hours apiece and a baby survivor solo q team with fewer than 1k hours combined… in back to back games.
If survivors and Behavior are expecting killers to "lose their way into a proper MMR bracket," then actually make those brackets mean something. Tighten up matchmaking. If that means that SEAL Team SWF ends up sitting in 30+ minute lobbies waiting for Lilith Omen or a comp Nurse to come available, then so be it. But as long as matchmaking remains this loose, then "proper MMR brackets" mean absolutely nothing.
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Im sorry Mandy but this just reads like "your macro sense isn't skillful". Ig enjoy 3 Killers forever in a game already struggling with Killer variety.
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You should mabye play the game once in a while before saying silly things like this. Tunnelling and camping are both nuanced issues.
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Based
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