9.0.0 | Five Nights at Freddy's
Comments
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So far my favourite add-on is the Security Badge, +10 seconds of undetectable after travelling through a security door is pretty good (Going from 20 to 30 seconds).
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I don't see why multiplayer has any effect on if a game should punish a faulty player or not, and In fact Dark souls was multiplayer. Dark souls punishes faulty players by removing souls and DBD now punishes faulty players by removing grade.
You can gain both back by playing more. Seems like completely the same issue, so a comparison seems absolutely usefull.
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None of the Souls game ever had a system that punished the player by making them unable to play the game. At worst, it made the game harder/easier and blocked/opened access to various quests/characters.
Dark Souls is not a multiplayer game, not at it's core. You do not need online to play it and finish the main content. You can play it multiplayer but it is not necessary.
DBD is a multiplayer game at its core. Even if you play customs vs bots, the closest thing to a single-player mode in DBD, you still need an online connection to even open the game and you cannot unlock much nor can progress using only customs vs bots. None of the game's content is unlocked via customs vs bots.
A single player game (such as the Souls series) can have a "punishment" system for dying since, at the end of the day, the player made a mistake and died because of it. Said systems are usually disliked even then since it never feels good to be punished further than losing progress (losing your souls can sting but it's expected, but the World/Character Tendency system, for example, is essentially hated by most of the Souls community since it's usually very difficult to deal with unless you play multiplayer, which many people do not wish to do and others don't want to spend the money on).
Now in DBD, said system not only can punish by locking you out of the game, but it can do so just by detecting that you died too quickly for its taste and determined that you tried to die on purpose even if it's wrong.
The video provided is more than enough video evidence even if no ban was issued, since it proves that the system can trigger even if someone was simply bad at the game and/or got hard-tunneled since the streamer got a warning (which is given by the very same parameters as the penalty is given if the system determines that a player tried to "go next"). Imagine how bad it must feel to get tunneled and YOU get a matchmaking penalty from it. How do you think newcomers will react when they encounter this after getting tunneled out quickly since they have no game knowledge yet?
Even without the video proving beyond a doubt that the system is faulty and can detect "going next" attempts despite it not being the case, BHVR killswitched the system. Since you obviously don't trust the playerbase even if hundreds of people are saying the same thing, you surely trust those who made the game right? I mean, even if so many people in the playerbase were not skeptical enough or misinformed, then whatever internal testing BHVR did (after the PTB mind you, since it wasn't active during the PTB) obviously made them learn something that justified the killswitch.
Post edited by Skillfulstone on3 -
I was talking about it punishing (taking grades) players for being faulty, not false-positives which we know the Go Next System has now. In regards to Dark Souls, I was barred from play in a way, because I could not make past Sen's Fortress, but that's not entirely the same, so I do agree with you, now the comparison is actively falling apart for me and making less sense as I consider it.
But how does BHVR then ban those AFK bots players who farm up and sell accounts?
We can only do this same way we do cheaters?
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I want to give some feedback on The Animatronic, but looking through this thread, it looks to be a bunch of moaning, whining, and people who think game dev is just waving a wand at your screen, and that fixes the issue.
For the most part, this killer is pretty fun to play as and against! But I do feel he is a bit too strong here and there and could use a bit of fine tuning. Firstly, the axe. Conceptually, I think it's fine. Unlike Huntress, he can't charge it, and he only gets the one. But it feels like he gets it back too quickly. Like on miss, you just need to wait 5 seconds and it's back. When his power was first revealed, I thought he would need it walk over to his axe and pick it up. But, no, you get it back mid-chase. It could really use like…a 10 sec cooldown? Nothing crazy, but this could add more to leaving the axe in the environment.
Secondly, 20 seconds of Undetectable after leaving a door is quite a bit. There's no cooldown on the doors, or visual/audio signifier that he's camping a door. If Dredge is in a locker for too long, survivors can see particles coming from the locker. There's also some inconsistency with The Animatronic, when compared to other teleporting Killers. First and foremost, he can can teleport the moment the trial starts. Nightmare and Onryo both have to wait a bit before warping, why doesn't he? And on top of this, unlike Onryo and Freddy, there's no visual or audio indicator that Aniomatronic is teleporting.He has undetectable while walking through the office, plus the door opening is quiet, AND he has 20 seconds of Undetectable afterwards? If Security Guard's badge is equipped, that's an additional 10 seconds. So he gets a silent teleport, with no cool down, available frame 1, with a quite reveal, 20 seconds of no terror radius, AND A PROJECTILE ATTACK.
I thought this guy wasn't supposed to be a stealth killer? I'm not saying to remove his undetectable door entry, but it could use a serious toning down. And I know there's an argument about this being balanced because the Survivors can use the office too, but the fact that he can just sit inside a door all game, not walking through the office, grabs a Survivor it really de-incentivizes using the office.
I understand this is the cash cow character. Keep him powerful until the free weekend is done and the Sale windows are closed. But once you have everyone's money, PLEASE tone him down just a tad.
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The Animatronic needs a teleport warning just like every other killer teleport.
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Alright, so, after more time for testing with friends (had to rope in a few newcomers, thankfully my friends helped with that) I am back with some more thoughts about the "AFK" crow system. (remember me @Nazzzak ?)
While all I said earlier (and in many other threads) still holds pretty much true (mostly for newcomers, people playing efficiently will rarely get crows outside of very specific situations, which is a problem because newcomers will not play efficiently and will still think the game is hide & seek) there are a few more problematic situations that we came across, some of which are extremely egregious;
Slugging for the 4k (slugging the 3rd Survivor in order to get more time to find the 4th and guarantee the 4k/Mori while bypassing Hatch entirely, leading to a 4-minute bleedout waste of time that nobody enjoys) has been made so much worse. Everyone knows how boring and how much of a waste of time slugging for the 4k is, there's dozens of threads about it. The new "AFK crows" essentially strengthen slugging for the 4k by forcing the last Survivor to expose themselves when the other is downed, the Killer can simply patiently wait over the slug (or just patrol in close proximity) and the last Survivor (obviously unable to save the slug) will have to do gens to keep crows at bay BUT when they inevitably finish a gen it will light a massive "I am here!" beacon which is likely to lead to the Killer finding and downing the last Survivor. Fast Killers (Oni, Blight, Billy etc.) can push it further and simply sweep around the map at high-speed, looping back to the slug often, and the last Survivor will now not only be unable to save the slug safely but will also be forced to be very vulnerable to a fast Killer to keep crows at bay by using gens. Slugging for the 4k is one of the most egregious thing in the game and the new crow system essentially makes it so that the game is effectively over if two Survivors die and the gates aren't already powered. A SWF on comms can coordinate perks (bringing Unbreakable/Adrenaline) and arrange for them to get downed in the map corner in order to be able to somewhat deal with this if only a single gen remains, but no mechanic should require being in a SWF to deal with.
Endgame stalling. With the right perks (No Way Out, Remember Me etc.) some Killers can basically force Survivors to get crows by forcing them away from gates (and since there's no more gens to do…) for a long time. Trapper, Singularity, Springtrap (depending on door spawn), and the faster Killers can be quite good at forcibly revealing the Survivors' locations (a single crow is enough to reveal your location is a pretty wide radius due to the noise it makes). Newcomers (and SoloQ who can't coordinate) have a very hard time not getting undeserved crows in those situations.
After some more testing (and a bit of research) Thrill of the Hunt is rough when trying to get rid of a Hex that cannot be ignored (especially for newcomers who will likely take a long time to even find a totem since they don't know the spawns) and crows will quickly accumulate, forcing the Survivor to go back on gens to get rid of it since a single crow will prevent them from hiding near the Killer entirely. Even without Thrill, newcomers have more issues with totem hunts. Combine that with screaming perks and/or Doctor and it's very likely that crows will appear, especially for newcomers.
The more powerful Killers with high-mobility (Blight, Billy etc.) now can use Grim Embrace and Dead Man's Switch (or any gen-block perk) to forcibly give crows to Survivors by simply keeping them off of gens for a while and, due to their speed, be able to quickly patrol and scare away Survivors from gens. This is even worse on newcomers who don't know the gen spawns and are more easily scared into hiding by the Terror Radius.
Tight 3-gen situations, especially against fast Killers, are prime territory to get crows for newcomers due to being scared and not wanting to risk getting found. Comms can work around it but again, no mechanic should require comms/being in a SWF to deal with.
In one particularly hilarious (but unlikely to happen in a regular game outside of a severe MMR mismatch in favor of the Survivor) game, one of us got a crow while hiding in a locker on a tile on the edge of Toba Landing while another Survivor looped the Killer in that tile for essentially the whole game (we were waiting for him to get hit so he'd be able to get max distance from his Adrenaline to finish the last gen) and I assume the only reason why the Killer didn't care about the crows that spawned on the locker is because they were (for some reason) fixated on my friend and simply refused to drop chase despite having their metaphorical ankles turned to dust for so long that Wesker had no more time to play and had to leave. While an obvious outlier, this situation is nonetheless something that can happen if a Survivor ends up hiding near a chased teammate and was unfortunate enough to have already accumulated some AFK points beforehand (probably due to travel time and/or having been forced to wait for his gen to get unblocked).
Keep in mind, during most of our testing (in customs, some of it was done in pubs and usually not in a 4-man), we knew what we we going to deal with. Even with prior knowledge of what was going to be in play (something that is not the case during regular play) we still encountered undeserved crows a few times in select situations. We unfortunately lost one of our newcomers toward the end (at least from playing the Survivor role) when they got crows while they were hiding during a 2v1 slugging for the 4k situation. Myself and my more experienced friends (many of which are leagues better than me) rarely get crows during normal play since we play efficiently and try our best to stick to gens (even more than before due to the new "AFK" crow system, this actually made us change our builds a bit since stealth is less of a priority and is less viable overall, thank the Entity for Deja Vu otherwise our newcomers would have been utterly lost in indoor maps and it would make every issues of the system even worse), but people that are not playing with efficiency in mind (and/or are simply new) are very prone to accumulate AFK points and suddenly get a crow at the worst moment.
Quite frankly, the crows no longer feel like "AFK crows", they now feel more like "Guideline crows" in the sense that even though the players are NOT AFK and are moving/running/totem hunting/waiting out certain situations, the game now essentially says "you are not doing what you should be doing as much as you should". Experienced players that are playing efficiently will seldom see the system at work (unless in extreme situations like slugging for the 4k and endgame stalling) but there's no repeating it enough that newcomers get hit a lot more by it than experienced players even if they are actively playing. I really do hope it gets either partially reverted (dropping/picking up items no longer removing crows and loss of collision after 3 crows are great things to keep) or sent back to the drawing board. At least, it should be far more lenient overall and should deactivate entirely in certain situations (2v1 and a Survivor gets downed, being in a certain proximity to an exit game during endgame etc.) to deal with the extreme situations.
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Thanks for the detailed update! Honestly, not surprised by any of the results. More loss of agency, and newcomers suffering the most.
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