Shoulder the Burden Suggestion
This perk needs to be much more restricted, because it being so readily available makes it super easy for inexperienced survivors to use it wrong, and it is way too strong in the hands of experienced survivors who already don't need this perk to win. Additionally, it actually encourages the sweatiest gameplay to a degree because the best counter is Hard Camping. I propose a couple conditions that would make it only counter the most extreme case of hard tunneling.
- Shoulder the Burden deactivates for all survivors once more than one unique survivor has been hooked.
- Shoulder the Burden can only be used on survivors in the Struggle phase.
This keeps it easy to use for newer survivors, while toning down its strength at the highest level.
Comments
-
It's almost not used perk, favoring killer if you play around it. So no. I don't think it needs nerfs.
1 -
Why do people think this perk is weak? Why do you think it favors the killer?
I’m trying to understand why there’s such a disconnect about this perk because most people with a lot of experience think that when it’s used well, it’s the most impactful perk in the game,
I think the best way for me to try to explain is just to say that once the killer gets into the 3v1 it’s a way stronger position and that if a person hasn’t been hooked yet by the point someone reached struggle phase it can delay that first kill by over a minute. Unless you’re the strongest killers, you don’t really have the time to go hooking every survivor individually especially when the person with this perk is probably playing more hidden.
If you as killer are beating a team by 12 hooking, sure you would’ve beat them anyway if they had shoulder, but if you need to ignore a survivor for whatever reason in closer games against good survivors (doing gens in strong areas, leaving areas you care about defending, on the other side of a large map etc) it can lose you the game for no reason other than a survivor brought a perk because of the pressure it relieves.
-1 -
It's not that the perk is weak, it's just getting maximum value out of it revolves around the person who brings it not getting hooked first/losing their first hook state which is easier said than done in a lot of games. It's like Deliverance. Super strong when it works, basically useless if you're the first hooked
Using it past that point is basically throwing because you'd be putting yourself on death hook + exposing yourself on top of that.
1 -
Here's an example from a solo game I just played. Steve is death-hook, right now basically the only path of winning for the killer is to get Steve out of the game. I use shoulder the burden on him to take his hook state. (I have no hooks because any time he tried chasing me prior I preran to the corner of the map away from everything where it would be detrimental for him to chase me).
He goes for Steve because I run to an area where he probably woudn't get the exposed down in time. Then when Steve is unhooked yui takes a down, and suddenly he's in a lose lose situation. If he hooks yui all the gens get done, and if he continues chasing steve all the gens get done. He hooks yui to try and get pop value, but we're split on gens, all the gens pop, and we get a 3 out. The game went from close and within reach to completely out of his hands barring some insane mess up almost entirely because I brought this perk and used it well, even though he didn't really make any bad decisions.
-1 -
See this is a good example of what I mean in my previous post, if you had gotten hooked at any point earlier in the match - Shoulder would've been a dead perk slot for you.
Think about it, you'd put yourself on death hook and expose yourself making you a super easy target.
1 -
I played in a way where it was bad for the killer to chase me, if he had chased me prior he would’ve lost the game as well because hooking me gives him no immediate pressure, and I pre run him into such a bad area away from the gens. “Just hook me earlier” is not easy when I pre run his TR, and if he tries to fly on top of me I lithe into main’s completed gens to waste more time and predrop pallets. It’s not a smart decision for him to make.
If you are going against a strong team as anyone who isn’t top 8 or so, you cannot go out of your way to hook all 4 survivors before killing someone. And if we are talking best of the best you cannot do that with the strongest killers as well even if you play well. If this is a perk that is only extremely strong in the hands of the strongest teams, why not just just balance it around them if it was going to be unusable for the average player anyway?And yes deliverance is very strong, but this is much stronger
-1 -
But your suggestion kills the perk for the majority of people who might want to use it in Solo Q though. Making a perk worse for Solo Q/everyone else because of SWFs doesn't seem right.
Like you said, good survivors/SWFs don't need it and so they don't run it. Plus just because you're in the right spot hook state wise to use STB, doesn't mean you will be able to. I've had quite a few games where I had 0 hooks and someone was on death hook and my other teammates saved them before I could use STB.
And my point isn't that Killers can afford to hook all 4 survivors or whatever, my point is in many games you will be the first hooked and the perk will become a dead slot because of it.
0 -
What I’m trying to say basically is that against the teams running shoulder well, you cannot hook all 4 survivors individually before getting someone out of the game, but if you try to get someone out earlier you’re also going to lose the game. You’re put into a lose-lose situation that takes the game out of your hands.
Here’s a video for example where it is one of the best blights in the world, close to the best build vs a team with shoulder the burden, only 1, in combination with other meta stuff. Now the survivors were not running duplicate perks, only basic items, and he barely gets a 2k because the game from an efficiency standpoint is just out of his hands. It’s reasonable to assume that if they were running multiple shoulders and stronger items he would’ve gotten maybe a 1k. This is one of the strongest, if not the strongest killer in the game that honestly needs a bit of a nerf, and he could not compete. Obviously bhvr doesn’t intend on balancing at the absolute highest level, but it doesn’t mean it should be completely neglected especially when this perk only exists to stomp high level matches.0 -
This is one game out of the hundreds, probably thousands where someone probably gets immediately tunnelled out to make it a 3v1 as fast as possible.
Sorry but in my opinion this is proof the perk should stay as is. Survivors need strong perks to push back against quad slowdown blights. Just like killers need strong perks to push back against 4 man meta squads.
0 -
I would still be able to use it in solo queue, but only as a counter to the hardest tunneling in the game, and so would swfs. I am someone who abuses this stuff in swfs, and plenty of people do too - it makes the game basically impossible for the killer even without comms unless we are just messing around.
People getting the unhook before you is not a reason to keep STB busted. That’s an issue with you not being able to see your teammates perks which should’ve been in the game a long time ago. Even with deliverance you can still get to the 3v1 before you’re hit with that perk, but there is no killer that can hold the last 3 gens against 4 alive survivors.
0 -
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947412#Comment_3947412
pushing back is fine, stomping is not okay. No restrictions on one of the best blights should be able to beat restricted survivors on a fairly standard map because if he can’t who can? There is no killer perk that gets nearly as much value as STB does.
0 -
I do think you have a point about it being punishing towards Killers who don't tunnel. That part I completely agree with you on.
But, I don't think gutting the perk is the way to fix that either. People were doom/gloom about STB during houndmaster's release and yeah it is a super strong perk but it's also barely used and at least with how frequent returning to the hook is these days it comes with a big risk to the survivor using it.
0 -
Again this dude probably wins hundreds of matches back to back and (This isn't meant as an insult) plays effeciencly by tunnelling someone out asap which for a lot of the survivor playerbase is a 'stomp'.
Seems like MMR doing it's job for a change if you ask me.
0 -
see I disagree that this would gut the perk, but instead be more situational in a way that’s fine. Like unbreakable for example I feel like I’m left on the ground long enough to get unbreakable at the same frequency a killer is hard tunneling a teammate. But unbreakable is still a good perk and I think STB would still be as well
0 -
See the survivors were on an escape streak too so yeah the mmr is working both of them probably winning 99% of matches, but turn your attention away from blight for a second. What is basically any other killer supposed to do in that situation if he can barely tie with survivors handicapping themselves.
0 -
I don't feel like STB needs a nerf personally. Yes, it is very strong, but only in the right situation. You don't get value out of this in every game. You need the hook counts to be imbalanced in such a way that it helps you, and at the same time you have to not be the one getting tunneled. If you get hooked early on in a match or the killer is spreading hooks fairly evenly then the perk does nothing.
The example Vecna game you showed is a great example of this perk working at its maximum value, but it's 1 game. More often than not, the circumstances don't work out this way and it's a dead perk slot.
0 -
It gets the most value in a team, where it becomes overpowered because against a solid team who is semi efficient you cannot spread hooks evenly and still win unless you’re maybe top 8 killers in the game. If we are talking best of the best teams it even destroys people playing extremely well on those killers.
Im not advocating for the game to be balanced around exclusively the highest level of play, but that level of balance can’t be completely neglected, I mean deliverance is really strong in a team as well, but I don’t care if it stays the way it is because it doesn’t come close to the impact of STB. I cannot stress enough how much of an impact this perk has, and it would still be as impactful if not more than deliverance with the changes I’ve suggested, just in a way that has reasonable counter-play for the killer, more in line with other perks that at least require some other perk to mitigate the downside.
For example: Deliverance, it has a clear activation, which you can usually tell by who gets the first unhook, so you know to not hook them so someone has to go for the pick up unless they have UB.
At worst this perk would force the killer to hook one other person which is a strong effect, but the game is just not balanced around forcing the killer to hook all 4.
0 -
Simple. Survivor is second stage, someone gets STB on them now they are one shot and will be second stage once you down them. Not even talking about people STB when already been hooked. The perk is garbage. And people know it. To make it work you have to run 4-man with everyone have it equipped.
0 -
I fear you don't understand it's value. First point is if it's only strong in a 4 man and unusable for solos (which it isn't), then why not nerf it, so it is balanced in the cases it is used. Second point, do you not understand how much time this perk adds to before a survivor is dead?
Let's go over the use cases for this perk when used correctly, even just once to understand it's value.
- A survivor is second stage, they leave the hook to pressure someone else. About halfway through the hook or earlier the Survivor uses a shoulder the burden, and now instead of having a survivor on death hook you can capitalize on you have to either go for the injured survivor, or go for the exposed person. Either way the time chasing either survivor + hooking them + the time they spend on hook, which is up 70s is the next time you can have someone at risk of dying.
- Second scenario is just that they save last second with shoulder, you get the trade, but again it adds another hook stage of time before someone is at risk of dying for gens to be completed.
- 3rd scenario is you staying by the hook proxying the entire time waiting for shoulder and losing the game or maybe getting a second kill in end game.
I'd argue this perk has more of an impact to win games than anything in the last 3 years or more. Over those years though killer perks have gotten proportionally weaker so it just feels weird.
0
