http://dbd.game/killswitch
Revisiting Knockout and it's illogical identity crisis
So Knockout wasn't particularly strong or meta before it's rework, however, it had to be changed because this perk was exceptionally punishing for SoloQ, had some really mean strats on certain killers, and was generally quite nasty to face for new players... this meant it was more often used to as a griefing tool rather than a genuine perk slot.
However looking past those flaws, I would argue its old intended identity was a perk that helped m1 killers secure a down and allowed the killer time to push off Survivors trying to save, or pick up a Survivor while making it harder for survivors to coordinate for flashlights and pallet saves.
Arguments can be made at how effective it was at that... however, it's new identity is as a perk that punishes survivors for trying to leave tile after dropping it, but before the Killer breaks it. Often the killers who benefit from this are killers that can already effectively zone a pallet, a stand out example being Artist, and limited application for killers like Clown and Doctor... However I'm not sure this effect is healthy, as it doesn't help really killers who need it, and makes ones that can exploit it even more egregious to play against.
Outside of this, one thing that really irks me about new Knockout is it's name does not match it's description at all. The whole identity of the perk no longer makes sense... how exactly does a Survivor running away from a pallet cause them to get hindered as a result of a "Knockout"?
So I'm basically throwing up the ball for discussion on what exactly should Knockout be? Ideally we want: -
- A perk that doesn't encourage obnoxious/griefing playstyles.
- Has an interesting niche that preferably benefits m1 killers and is no abusable by stronger killers.
- Extra points if it synergises with Bubba.
- Fits the idea of a "Knockout" blow.
I have some of my own ideas, but I thought I'd open to the floor, what kind of role should Knockout fill in DBD, and what effects should it have to achieve it?
Comments
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I'll say beforehand that if Knockout gets totally reworked again, I'd kinda like the current effect to become a new General Perk or something.
I also think that it actually shouldn't necessarily synergise with Bubba- It only buffing his hammer attacks isn't good for his gameplay, but it is thematic to the Perk and especially the TCM scene that presumably inspired it, so I like the idea of it reverting to a Basic Attack perk.
Anyway, here's my pitch:
When you down a Survivor with a Basic Attack, Knock Out applies the following effects:
- You recover from your Basic Attack 20/25/30% faster.
- Your victim Survivor loses the ability to self-recover from the Dying State, move in the Dying State, or wiggle while carried for 3 seconds.
- Picking up a Survivor afflicted by Knock Out is 40% faster.
My numbers are probably poorly thought out in some way but hopefully this gets the idea across. Encourages you to slug when you see a clear opportunity via the basic attack cooldown, but is of no real benefit if you're leaving people on the ground all the time. It also pulls double duty as a hook convenience perk in case a slugging opportunity never comes up, but with the downsides of being restricted to M1 Killers and you lose the benefit if you aren't willing to immediately commit to a pickup.
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Certainly an interesting idea, and I agree with you that it's thematically tied to his hammer and the scene where he KO's/kills Kutis Watsanen is what I think of with this perk.
I would probably ditch the auto attack recovery speed, and just bump the victim being unable to move or recover for 10 seconds. The fast pick up also feels pretty on brand for Bubba, since of course, despite being a dead weight, he hauls Kirks body around with ease.
Gameplay wise is would mean those scrappy hits around tiles where the survivor that didn't quite fall under the pallet, can't quickly scramble under a pallet, which does give time for the killer to position nicely to pick up on the edge to try and avoid a stun, and make flashlight saves more tricky.
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Alternatively and as a casual necro, if it's not gonna change, I'd probably look at at least changing the perks name and description, something like this:
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People were starting to abuse it and it needed to be nerfed but I feel like it shouldn't have been reworked but changed. It should only affect one person at a time and the aura blocking is only is in affect for 30 seconds and transfer of another person is knock down. Something like that.
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the reason why it spiked in usage is because slugging is more preferable than hooking which buffs survivors and constant gen regression nerfs
it wasn't really a griefing tool since there was counterplay with unbreakable and boon exponential
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I admit that as a killer, the change didn't affect me because I don't use that perk. In fact, I consider it a unique and exclusive perk for killers who only know how to slug and who have no regard for the rest of the players in their match, because that makes an extremely boring and tedious match. As a survivor, I liked the change because I play solo, and at least now it makes it harder for them to slug, even if they continue to slug.
The problem I see is that if you start restricting the use of perks or offerings (maps recently) for certain killers or even survivors, people are going to go crazy. One of the reasons the game sells well is because the perks are interchangeable (ignoring the fact that many of them, when mixed with each other or with certain killer powers, seem like an abuse of the system). So, if you start restricting their use, the DLC people buy just for the perk will stop selling (how many people buy a killer just for the perk synergy and never use the killer again?). Personally, I only buy the perks in SoS now (since 2 years ago); I haven't bought characters again because I feel like I'm enjoying the game less and less. So I refuse to give money to the game.
Unfortunately, they change these types of perks or make changes to the game because their use become abusive mechanics (although they don't always change them correctly and make the most vulnerable the most affected).
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Something having counterplay doesn't mean it's not unhealthy/griefing when used a certain way.
The problem with Knockout was that it disproportionately punished solo Q survivors and did virtually nothing against swfs on comms. It was also the #1 perk choice for people playing bleedout playstyles which imo is borderline griefing since it was one of the main reasons basekit unbreakable was almost a thing and is one of the sole reasons why survivors have the abandon feature now.
Killers who use slugging properly and tactically weren't the issue and they didn't really use knock out for that regardless in my experience.
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so you know that counterplay i mentioned that invalidates that playstyle? like the build that is reliant on slugging gets invalidated and they lose since their build relies on slugging if everyone just brought exponential and just lit totems on different parts of the map or at least brought unbreakable the killer couldn't really do anything since the survivors could just reset
but that didn't happen
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Expecting survivors to bring Unbreakable/Exponential in case they get a killer doing a bleedout strat is the same logic as me saying:
"As a killer if you hate boil over sabo squads, just play pyramid head or use hangmans trick (back when it respawned hooks very quickly)"
Does that sound right to you?
Even in full bleedout games, unbreakable (a perk that actually is used a lot) is 1 use. Once it's gone, that's it.
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yea it's what you had to do just like how when gen regression was gutted people just swapped to aura builds it's literally a meta shift. the survivor meta doesn't change that often but killer meta shifts usually every patch since the devs usually nerf killer perks every patch and do a minor buff to a lesser used perk
also that's why i said and/or exponential but 1 unbreakable can turn a game alone but they don't really need to since they abandon for any reason now
survivors shouldn't be able to abandon if there is an active exponential or if someone has an active unbreakable
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Aye that was logic, though those pushing that narrative (amongst which TruTalent and Choy) eventually did reach the conclusion that slugging the whole team wasn't generally speaking more effective than other strategies in DBD... it was usually harder to do in a lot of instances, and Knockout only really helped vs. SoloQ, not SWFs, so as a strategy it definitely drops off.
It makes sense, cause yes, a lot of survivor perks trigger off hooks, but also a lot of the stronger killer perks also trigger off hooks as well, such as:
- Scourge Hook Pain Resonance
- BBQ And Chilli
- Grim Embrace
- Dead Man's Switch
- Friend's Til the End
- Pop Goes the Weasel
- No Way Out
You get the idea. Sure A and S tier killers can slug very effectively... but they also have the strength to overcome survivor perks as well when hooking, so the point is still moot.
In any case, I'd say it was more often a griefing tool, mostly because it's value is so disproportionate/inconsistent depending on what kind of survivor team you go against... so it's genuine build usage is highly questionable.
As such there are not many, if any, normal build scenarios you'd take the perk really; taking the perk almost always meant you were going in with the express purpose of slugging the whole team....
This is, at best, a cheese strat that isn't going to remain relevant as you go against better and better survivors... a bit like playing the Fried Liver in Chess... it'll get you wins to start with, but you're playing in a way that falls down once you start hitting players that know what youre doing, and you dont have the other skills in your toolbelt to change strategy.
So with that in mind, I'd say it's usual usage was pretty much just to beat up on and bully soloQ… I.e. to grief low skilled players.
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I kind of like this idea.
It directly counters perks like Unbreakable, Soul Guard, and Boon: Exponential. Faster recovery, while small, makes it so you can get into chases faster and build up pressure faster, though Id personally add "10% Haste for 4 seconds upon downing a Survivor with a basic attack (this effect disables certain Killer powers for X-seconds)" on top of it to make the effect a bit more rewarding for M1 Killers but lacking for M2 Killers.
All for the downside of Survivors being able to recover faster, which makes it a high risk/high reward perk which I generally like perks that do that.
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