http://dbd.game/killswitch
Haywire rework suggestion
Instead of potentially nerfing Singu's biopods (I mean, I can get behind pods being destroyed by EMP's rather than just disabled, even if that would only happen once exitgates are powered), a rework that has a similar enough effect to the current perk, but doesnt make it impossible against someone like Singu:
Mainly mechanically speaking too, because thats easier to implement than a vague concept:
Haywire:
Whenever a survivor touches the exitgate, the OTHER exitgate gains a flat -1 charges per second at the exact same time.
This doesnt apply if the other exitgate is at 0%(because a -99% gate would be hell) or at 100%(mainly because it would look weird for lights to turn off when the gate is already open)
The impact it has on the basekit game, not considering perks:
If a survivor 99's 1 gate and go prep the other gate, the other gate gets drained fully.
If 2 survivors are on gates at the same time, neither gate will progress (because its 1 + -1 = 0 charges per second).
The impact it has with perks considered:
If the killer has Remember Me, the other exit gate will drain at -1 charges per second while the gate that is being touched gains less that 1 charge per second(I am assuming thats how Remember Me actually works as of now, I havent seen the numbers behind it otherwise). Meaning that the other gate will drain in 20 seconds, while you're only going to be at around 40% of your own exitgate. That also means of 2 survivors open the gates at the same time, they will actively lose progress.
If survivors run any perks that increase the speed (lets pick Sole Survivor in a 1v1 for the easy 50% example), you will progress one gate by 1.5 charges per second, while the other drains by 1 charge per second. Meaning that if you have prepped one gate to 80%, you will end up with 1 gate opened and the other gate at 5%.
It also means if hypothetically 2 survivors could be alive with both having Sole Survivor active, they could both touch the gates at the same time and progress it at 50% of the normal rate, because they add 1.5 charges per second but lose 1 charge per second.
Another niche thing it does, is give the killer information if someone else is at the other gate, because lightbulbs will turn off.
Comments
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I really dislike that BHVR burn off really risky Gameplay ideas on Licenced perks, like haywire seems absolutely worthless on its own, its only broken with other perks and certain Killers. I don't think this is the way we should treat guests to our game.
BHVR should not give risky perks that is a dead end balance wise to Licenced Chapters, I think its really disrespectful.
BHVR if you want to add a risky perk to the game, nobody is stopping your from adding a 4th perk with a chapter for the general perk pile. Please give the newcomers who join us for Springtrap, a superb experience one that is not plagued by a perk standstill.
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Or even a rework for an old useless perk.
Shattered Hope was right there!
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The Shattered Hope saga was a story of a solution made in panic, nobody would ever dream using a specific perk to counter other really strong perks. Its just unfair. And now boons are not really strong enough to warrant them being meta and this Shattered Hope fell from useless to beyond useless.
Reminds me, I should make a thread about buffing Boons, its time we see them more.
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Yup.
What I meant was, since Shattered Hope might as well be either basekit or not exist (depending on who you ask), it'd be nice to just wipe it clean and go in a completely other direction (like Knockout but not lazy this time). My current favorite idea is that you could close opened exit gates, so the teabagging survivors get literally locked out.
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Shattered Hope only needs 1 tiny change to at least have a niche use outside boons:
Whenever a totem is touched for the first time, show the aura of the survivor who touched it for 6 seconds.
Its niche, gives similar early hex protection like Dominance, but instead of also protecting chests, you can break boon totems with it.0 -
I find it so annoying how everyone acts like only Singularity could do that gate hostage thing and HE is the reason we cant have nice things©.
Any killer with mobility or presence could pull it off on ptb and it took way more skill to break apart. Even Springtrap with good enough door lineup.
Now even singularity can't hold gates hostage with it, at least not for long.
Haywire is just fundamentally flawed perk design and people need to stop deflecting the blame on fine killers to justify it. This kind of mechanic should've never been a perk and instead a basekit feature that is implemented with consideration of existing gate perks and defence strategies.
Someone in otz' comments had a funny idea that haywire makes opening gates open the other gates instead. That'd be funny and strong enough for a perk and not causing much problems.
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It's Singularity this time. Most of the time that perks are nerfed or changed is caused by Nurse. :D
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again, it's not singularity, it's like 5 different killers because haywire is fundamentally a broken perk if you pair it with remember me and terminus.
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But it's completely useless on its own and for 75% of killers.
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exactly.
its only purpose ever wouldve been to be used with remember me and terminus on 5-6 killers to win / hold games hostage with a new 3 gen strategy equivalent
it shouldn't have existed in the first place.
it's like if they added a perk that makes survivors bleed out faster and then we'd have people complain that "twins dont let other killers have nice things". it's not twins, it's garbage perk design.
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That's an interesting idea to stop both gates from being worked on simultaneously and messing with each other when trying to open both gates.
Regarding the haywire flickering effect, it would be cool if the other gate flickered when a gate was being worked on, so if both are 99'd independently you wouldn't even be aware.
To assist with the details:
- The gate has 20 charges, and normally progresses at 1 charge per second.
- The relationship is Progress (c) = Speed (c/s) × Time (s)
- Positive/Negative modifiers are applied to the speed, positive are applied first, negative modifiers are apllied second.
- Sole Survivor (+ 50%) and Wake Up apply first. SS would be t = 20c ÷ 1.5c/s = 13.33s
- Remember Me either adds charges to the gate, so 20 charges becomes 50 charges. You Haywire would still be net 0 (1 c/s - 1c/s). With SS, t = 50c ÷ 1.5c/s = 33.33s.
- Or Remember Me applies up to a 60% penalty to the open speed. Your Haywire would be -0.6c/s (0.4 c/s - 1c/s). With SS, t = (20c ÷1.5c/s) ÷ 0.4c/s = 33.33s.
Your change Haywire would effectively be applying its own -1c/s to the opposing gate. So it depends which version of Remember Me implemented as to how this plays out 😁
Might be interesting if the killer could open the opposing gate and immediately apply a max charge reduction to the other gate. 😅
Post edited by UndeddJester on0 -
oh, by the way
if EMPs EVER will destroy Singu's biopods instead of disabling them, you will MAKE SURE this killer is ONLY EVER PLAYING 3 GENS because staying in one place and constantly replacing biopods will be THE ONLY WAY for him to maintain map presence after that change.
The better way to address the issue of instantly replacing pods (which I dont think is an issue, but let's entertain this idea for a while) is to make a LINGERING AOE after EMP was used to stay and disable biopods instead of the reboot timer being tied to the biopods themselves.
And of course, this should be compensated with making that new reboot shorter so singu's mapwide presence skill expression is more rewarded because this killer is very much balanced as is.
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Note how I added "even if it only happens after exit gates are powered"? If we're talking about a balanced way of destroying biopods before exit gates are powered should require 2 EMP's. 1 to disable active biopods, and 1 to destroy disabled biopods.
That way, you can have more than enough map pressure, as EMP's require quite a bit of time to regenerate or require a lot of survivor time to speed up the process for one.
And note that the issue isnt instantly replacing pods, its that he can replace pods whenever he is near AND doesnt have to do anything for disabled biopods to regenerate. A solo gen requires generally 3 EMP's to fix.
Also, I would kinda say its a lie to say its the only way for Singu to maintain map presence after that change, because Demogorgon can place portals nearby which can be removed fully and requires Demo to physically be there to replace it with a new one. And Demogorgon isnt "only ever playing 3 gens".
Also also, no, its not mobility killers in general that would be able to hold gates on the PTB. They would be heavily RNG reliant at best to do the same thing. Springtrap would need a door next to the gates, if one didnt spawn close enough, he wouldnt be able to keep it. Sadako, same thing but with TV's instead, and TV's can be turned off. Demogorgon, portals can be removed so he is forced to walk back to a gate, meaning the other gate can be prepped. Xeno, similar issue as Springtrap, and flame turrets can be placed nearby to induce some slowdown and global info on where Xeno is. Dredge? Lockers could be locked to slow down. Nurse? Blinking from 1 side to the other was not really worth it. You could counter all these killers by pressuring both gates at the same time. You could argue Twins to be an issue, but even before Haywire, Twins with Terminus and Remember Me could be an issue. Haywire didnt really change that much.
Singularity literally was the only killer who could have 4 seperate access points to each gate, basically bodyblock 1 gate while he was checking the other gate which required 4 seperate EMP's to disable. Singu literally was the only killer who made escaping impossible. Everyone else made it hard, but not impossible.-1 -
Yeah, it didnt really matter what the net charge would be in the end, time-wise it should roughly be the same. Since the bar shows red, I was assuming its a penalty rather than adding charges, because I feel that adding charges to 3 survivors would be prone to bugs in case of Nemesis or Game Afoot.
And while Haywire potentially applying a -99.999% progression on the other gate might seem fun if the killer opens the exit gate, it wont really do too much. I actually rather have it permanently block the other gate if that is the case. Would pretty much fit the theme of the perk too.0 -
are you actually comparing demogorgon who is using portals as a way of map traversal (which, by the way, is guaranteed at least once per portal to him) and singularity who uses pods primarily as a way of applying pressure because survivors can consistently deny him that mobility apart from certain edge case scenarios which still offer a degree of counterplay?
as for other killers who could hold gates easily, you take billy/blight/kaneki. or coincidentally demogorgon who travels through his portals nigh instantly with all the buffs and who did the whole gate holding routine on ptb with way less effort and just tiny bit less consistency than singularity.
but sure, blame singularity and keep proposing idiotic changes, im sure eventually the white noise from enough people gets loud enough to gaslight devs into making a mistake.
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I actually played against Blight and Billy doing exactly this on the PTB, we got a 3 man escape with the obsession dead once the final gen was done, mainly because we had 2 survivors knowing how to counterplay. The second they left for the other exitgate, sit on the gate. Have 1 survivor following the movement of those mobility killers in case they slug and go back, and take over the exitgate once they go back and pick up the survivor once they fully recover.
Its tedious, but doable. The killers could hold it with relatively low effort, but it was possible.
Again, Singularity was the ONLY one making it literally IMPOSSIBLE. Thats the keyword here, IMPOSSIBLE.-1 -
Haywire rework:
When opening exit gates, the progress is hidden from survivor and lights flicker randomly. Any time the gate is not touched, it loses -0.25ch/s up to 50 % depletion progress.
Pros: Will force EGC which is it primary purpose.
Cons: Will make holding gates with specific killers less valuable (Huntress, Hag, Singularity, Blight, Twins, Trapper, Billy, Freddy, Demo, Knight, Kaneki…)
Overall update to the gates: Gates cannot spawn within 90m from each other. (This is QOL for both sides.)
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and i have seen singularities fail to do it on ptb because they were bad at that, your point is moot because youre basing it on a few instances of anectodal experience.
if singularity was the problem, they would've nerfed him instead of a garbage perk that was only useable for holding gates hostage with the right build and killer, dont you think so?
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Except it wasnt a moot point tho, the main take-away there was "mainly because we had 2 survivors knowing how to counterplay.". If we didnt have 2 players who knew how to counterplay the perk and killers, we would have definitely lost.
They were good killers who knew how to get a ton of value out of the perk, I just happened to be with someone else who knew when the killers were forced to the other gate because otherwise it would open up, which would give a net-gain of 10% progress each time.
Its not anecdotal since I faced plenty where I lost to who played worse in terms of timing, it was just survivors who didnt know how to counterplay the killer-perk combo.
By all means, that would have still instigated a nerf, but it would have been reduced to 25% time reduction as that was more than plenty at the time to do gates. But Singu is the only reason its been nerfed the way it has, because it would otherwise be literally impossible.
Extremely strong to the point of needing close to perfect teamwork to counter does not equal impossible, where singularity could literally make it impossible.It's like saying the original rework of Boil Over was extremely strong to the point of basically needing an instant pickup so you could reach the hook, but not impossible to counter, unless you played on RPD or Dead Dawg Saloon. But neither DDS nor RPD could be tweaked in a way that would make that version of Boil Over fair.
Haywire was gonna get nerfed, but Singu is the reason on why its gutted.0
