http://dbd.game/killswitch
BHVR, Let killers abandon once exit gates open PLEASE
Comments
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They are still the same. If you think that a killer shouldn't be able to abandon once gates are open then all I can say is this is also supporting bullying the killer by just sitting in gates and bagging.
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They really are not. And comparing them is just incorrect.
Your second thing here though….all I can say is this is also supporting bullying the killer by just sitting in gates and bagging.
Yea everything I said was "I just want survivors to bully the killer"
not
"I dont want a button people can press to leave games they think are over"
Lets not misrepresent what people say to each other please.0 -
It may not be your actual thoughts but it is what you mean inadvertently or without intention. Because believe it or not the scenarios where people just sit in exit gates and bag is way more common than you might think.
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Okay dude you are correlating two things that have nothing in common.
You seem to think that just because I dont want a give up button, that I support bullying.
This would be like saying "Well you dont want to nerf nurse, you must think survivors are overpowered"
Please come up with something related to the thread as you are now just assuming what other people are saying or thinking. I guess you are a telepath now?
I never once said Ialso supporting bullying the killer
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So then please tell me. Survivor dont have to suffer a humiliating defeat by having the abandon feature but killer should suffer it? Both cases either side can come back but one gets the abandon feature. So should the killer just suffer by either wasting their time not going to the gates or go to the gates and have their loss rubbed in their face? It quite literally is becoming a double standard.
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The system that was put in place assumes your premise without knowing it to be true. If survivors did have agency to get back up that isn't taken into account. Because of that, you cannot take into account what the killer could do when faced with similar situation where the game can be over with doors open.
Also, it's not when they are powered but opened. Not asking for the button to appear after 5 gens are done but for the means to escape are available.
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Everything I said was already stated in the thread as well as my direct replies to you.
Since you want to say that I support bullying there is no further replies necessary between us.-3 -
Alright cool you to me are a person with double standards.
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That's not a matching line. The line started when killers kept people slugged for minutes at a time. This line is out of inconvenience. The first line was at unavoidable BM unless you take a punishment. This line is trying to get drawn despite being avoidable. These are very different lines.
As killer do you want to play against people or bots? As survivor do you want to play against a player or bot? But ya know what, we don't particularly care anymore. We said our pieces. You keep going. It's unlikely your going to be swayed by anything said and your definitely not swaying us.
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Throughout this thread we jump between 'killer should be able to abandon when the doors are open' and 'survivors in gate bagging'.
Except they are very different things. Just because the gates are open does not mean all the survivors are there and are safe. Survivors in the gate bagging probably are safe, but as discussed, survivors could just move slightly and now BHVR has to decide on where to draw the line for 'safe' and 'game is still going on'.
If survivors did have agency to get back up that isn't taken into account.Out of curiosity
If BHVR changed it so that if any survivor had unbreakable or another perk that can get them up, the abandon option wouldn't appear, would you change your opinion? Because otherwise this feels like a red herring.
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Yeah but just because all the survivors are slugged doesnt mean the games over for them. See where I'm getting at? You can still try to play the game but survivor just give up because they don't want to try. But if god forbid a killer wants to abandon once the gates are open is suddenly seen as a taboo.
The abandon feature was good at the start but then people started developing double standards.6 -
Yes it would but not completely. Since there already was a thread on this topic, I won't go into another reply chain but just state my opinion on that. If they gave the killer the opportunity to hook or survivors to pull an ace before giving the abandon button, I will change my mind on this topic.
But as it stands now, fair is fair.
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This is the first time that Huntress has seen you all match, isn't it? Prior to saving Jill, you had maybe 1500 points in Boldness, and about 3000 points in Altruism. I'm guessing you spent the majority of the match hiding.
Also, Nancy wasn't tunneled. She gave up. Probably got hit early with an Iri hatchet and called it quits. Because you literally earn more points from losing 10 second chases and hitting Wriggle/Struggle checks. Laurie MAY have been tunneled, I guess. Though 15000 points is a little much for someone who was hard tunneled after someone else gave up.
Finally, you only got out thanks to a bug. That hatchet clearly hit you right in shoulder, but the hit registered against Jill, because for some reason the game has been prioritizing hooked survivors over actual targets lately.
So… no. I don't think you "earned" any tbags here. You spent the entire match hiding, let your teammates get "tunneled" without taking aggro or protection hits, and only escaped thanks to a bug. But even if the Huntress did "deserve" bags here, does that mean that any time a survivor does something I don't like I can bleed them out? Kill two survivors, then let the flashlight user bleed out for four minutes while their last teammate tries to finish gens? Or is it only okay when Survivors do it?
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Killer's slugging to bleed out may of been the catalyst but not the solution put forward. Thus the line was not drawn where the issue was.
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It does though.
The only time it is not is unbreakable.
Game design isnt designed around "what if" perks. Its designed around game play.
Otherwise we would still have no basekit BT and require someone to bring borrowed time so the killer couldnt immediately down someone after an unhook.-5 -
See where I'm getting at?You're treating one situation which is incredibly, astronomically unlikely with something that is not unusual and saying because there is a chance is both that makes them the same. The chance of survivors coming back from everyone slugged/hooked/dead is miniscule. The chance of killers getting a kill after the gates have been powered is relatively common.
There is a massive gulf in probabilities, agency, time frame, and ability to implement.
You can still try to play the game but survivor just give up because they don't want to tryTry what?
There is nothing to be done. Everyone is down, hooked, or dead.
But if god forbid a killer wants to abandon once the gates are open is suddenly seen as a taboo.The thing I think most people get angry about in these discussions is the treating the scenarios as the same. They're not. Should the abandon option be expanded? Maybe, that's a different discussion, but the situation of everyone being slugged is unique from the gates being opened.
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If all four survivors are in the exit gates, and the killer isn't playing a specific couple of characters/addons/perks, then it is literally impossible for them to do anything other than get tbagged. So we shouldn't design around "what if perks/addons" and design around the fact that in the VAST majority of cases, once those gates are opened, the game is over.
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To be perfectly fair, BHVR isn't that consistent with their statements. They flip flop often enough for us not to limit the discussion based on one patch note.
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This is the first time that Huntress has seen you all match, isn't it?
First? no
She was tunneling though on each target. Thats not my problem if she wants to focus on ONE person and then do the same thing on repeat.Also, Nancy wasn't tunneled. She gave up. Probably got hit early with an Iri hatchet and called it quits. Because you literally earn more points from losing 10 second chases and hitting Wriggle/Struggle checks. Laurie MAY have been tunneled, I guess. Though 15000 points is a little much for someone who was hard tunneled after someone else gave up.
Nancy did not give up though, she was tunneled immediately off her hook. Unfortunately I dont have the entire match to post I didnt have OBS going just the usual 30 second clip capture at the moment.
Laurie was always there for the save is probably why she has so many points.
Plus one of the gens she worked was part of the reason we got out. I found one at like 50-60% so the 3 gens I had to do while jill chased was more like 2.5.Finally, you only got out thanks to a bug. That hatchet clearly hit you right in shoulder, but the hit registered against Jill, because for some reason the game has been prioritizing hooked survivors over actual targets lately.
No she clearly hit Laurie there was no hit on me. She was not even close to the side of hitting me. It was pretty clear it went right at the jill. You have to be on the side to get a hit with how large huntress hatchet hit boxes are. Everyone who plays huntress knows how large the hit box is on hatchets. Thats not a bug, thats the huntress not taking the extra half second and messing up.So… no. I don't think you "earned" any tbags here. You spent the entire match hiding,
You need to apply your point logic in the other direction. If that was the case I would have not been ahead of points on Jill.
So no you are flat out wrong here. I saved multiple times its just you cant body block a iri hatchet huntress. You can trade sure. But laurie gave me no opportunity for that. And a 3v1 you really have to sit on gens, not recklessly go feed extra hooks.
Definetely didnt hide though, otherwise I wouldnt be top score. You dont top score by being a gen jockey and hide all match. Thats not how that works.-3 -
You could hit them and push them out, and that would end the teabagging. That's the equivalent of the abandon button right there. If you refuse to do that, then you'd refuse to use the abandon button if it were available.
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There were various solutions put forward for that. The solution we got to that was this. Theres solutions that can be put forward for the BM at gates or survivors hiding (which if we remember correctly the devs are working on) when the doors are open or whatever. Of which one could be abandoning but there's potentially other options that can be put forward. We want something else preferably something to punish people lingering around safety.
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The solution is easy. The survivors should lose BP by staying near the gates, just as the killer loses BP by staying near the hook. Either you escape or you stay at a distance with a certain risk.
Giving up should never be an option.
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I'm not looking for punishment. I'm not looking to deny anyone their bloodpoints or achievements. I want what is available on one side to be the same on the other. The line wasn't drawn when the killer BMs. It was drawn where survivors felt it was over, even if other avenues could exists. When the gates are opened, even if the killer could do something, they should still be given the option.
Give killers the abandon button at gate open.
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Lol. What? In what world is being forced to go to BOTH gates, hit survivors 8 times all while being tbagged the same as hitting two buttons and immediately ending the match? You're talking about 90 seconds of BM vs 1 second without BM.
I refuse to go to the gates. I just tab out and let the survivors waste their own time, but I would absolutely use the abandon button. I don't mind losing. I don't like having it rubbed in my face.
You're very clearly embellishing the truth. I've been hard tunneled off of hook before and have went down almost immediately, and I earned 5k to 10k points. I've hard tunneled at times and the survivor earned 5k to 10k points. You earn MORE points than that just by losing three 10 second chases and wriggling.
And, yes, it is your problem. If a survivor is getting tunneled, you save them by taking hits. Huntress is a 4.4 killer. This one only had one hatchet. You taking a hit or even down for this "tunneled" Nancy could have helped her get away. When I tunnel, survivors are much more likely to get away if other survivors are slowing me down.
That clearly hit you.
You couldn't have saved multiple times. A hook save is what, 1K? 800? I forget. You only had 2-3K Altruism. So you mean to tell me you didn't do a single heal all game? Really? With a healing perk and a juiced medkit? I'm pressing X to doubt.
You have more points than Jill because you did three gens, got extra points for those gens for the masquerade, and you got about 5k in the last 10 seconds of the game off of that late hook save, two protection hits, and final "chase."
It's kind of convenient that you don't have any evidence of this awesome come from behind win besides a 30 second clip of you earning what are really your first Boldness points of the match during EGC.
PS: You can absolutely body block against an Iri Huntress. It might involve you going down, but you getting your first hook is better than Nancy getting her third, right?
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The abandon was only given to Survivors because they have no options when they're slugged. Killers do have options, they just refuse to use them.
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Like I've said earlier, the solution went beyond the problem.
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I mentioned this in another reply, but to repeat
If all four survivors are in the exit gates,once those gates are opened, the game is over.These are very different scenarios. Even if we say all 4 survivors in the exit gate should allow the killer to abandon, that doesn't connect to the idea that the trigger point should be the gate opening.
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What your looking for and what we're looking for are two different looking fors. What is available on one side currently IS available on the other. What can you do when all survivors are bots? Abandon. We're like 97% sure the line was drawn at killers purposely bleeding survivors. The avenues were said and unfortunately the devs choose this one.
When the gates are opened, even if the killer could do something, they should still be given the option.
So we got a genuine question. How is the gates being open the same as the 4 people on the dirt?
Give killers the abandon button at gate open.
No. We hope they don't and give something else. Demanding something from us is also not going to be productive.
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Lol. It's the point that makes the most sense. Far more often than not, the game is over once the gates are open. Survivors generally don't open the gates until they know that they are getting out.
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I do believe we are just going in circles. I was writing something but it's just the same thing as before. I'm just going to table this.
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It's weird how it's so controversial. If the gates are opened and survivors are at them, I think it should be grounds for an abandon because outside of sheer stupidity it's basically a lost match. Just like how all survivor's being incapcitated is basically a lost match for them, why people are so insistant on allowing one but not the other I'll never understand.
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It's easy. Survivors don't respect killers as being other players.
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Its just missing the bigger picture of it is all. Its not a lost match
Its basically suggesting for someone to body block an iri hatchet huntress thats tunneling, and then expecting her to hook you instead of just slug you and continue on with her tunnel.
You gotta think more macro about the match than just micro plays like an exit gate being powered. Or taking a hit against an insta down killer that is hardcore tunneling.
Theres more to the match than just "the exit gates are powered the match is over" and "you should throw yourself at the killer and expect her to hook you"
It would have been a massive mistake to attempt body blocking the huntress in my scenario as it would just add to her kill count. And then probably result in a 4k in the end. Gotta think more macro than just whats directly on the cards in the moment.Post edited by ChuckingWong on-4 -
that's a very interesting point you make. i'm sure your attitudes towards survivor complaints, which you express on these forums, would not render you a hypocrite, were they to surface.
…oh my. that's awkward.
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thank goodness I play springtrap because I can just chill in a door and smoke more weed; I ain't wasting my time stroking delicate egos
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If you take a hit against Iri Huntress, that means she has no hatchets to use against the person she's tunneling. Which means she has to go reload, or try to tunnel someone while only being a 4.4 killer. Which gives the other survivor time to gain a lot of distance and/or disappear entirely.
99/100 games, the game is lost once those exit gates open, barring an endgame perk. You just like rubbing it in killer's faces when you win, and you don't like the idea of not being able to do that.
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Here's the big question nobody is asking: Who would it be hurting to simply let this be a thing? And I have never gotten a good answer for it.
Survivors? Well, no. They're getting the win regardless. They can always get their exit gate thing against someone who wants to play to the end if they so choose, or those challenges could simply be removed.
Killers? Well, no. They're getting to leave if they feel the other side is being a sore winner and will simply not take their W without trying to humiliate them or get their attention and push them out. And if you don't wanna do it, you don't have to do it. It's optional, like the abandon for Survivors is optional. You don't like it? Don't use it.
The experience? Well, no. Game's over, experience is over, what more fun is there to have? There's already an unspoken rule to not go to the gates in the Killer community for a reason - the experience isn't good. Chasing people out doesn't necessarily feel good to do just because you can do it.
The fact is many Killers simply do not want to go to the gates for the same reason many Survivors don't want to wait on the ground in a slug for a 4k. It's boring. Having to force Survs out is boring. It may not be the same exact thing or same exact line, but it's a boring bit of formality when you know you're not going to succeed, in both cases the game is OVER for the side who is in the situation outlined - Survs running out the gate, Killer hunting the last friend while you're on the ground. In both cases it's needless extra time wasted. That's why people want abandon when everyone's in the gate so badly, because people want to move on to the next round without having to waste time when they're just going to leave anyway.
Look, it's like this - it's just not likely unless you run certain perks or certain Killers you're going to catch anyone at the gate. It's more likely you will lose them. It's also really boring to have to run around spamming your power or breaking pallets because Survivors choose to wait until the last second to leave. For a large number of Killer players, once the Survs are in the gates it's basically over, they're gonna leave, unless you have some sort of weird clutch endgame play that happens once in a blue moon ready.
So, this being a thing - allowing abandon after a minute or so of the gates being open, let's say - doesn't harm Survs, doesn't harm Killers, and doesn't harm the experience. So I ask again, to the people who for some baffling reason do not want the ability for those who want it to choose to forfeit when a game feels lost, who would it be hurting to simply let this be a thing?
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So, this being a thing - allowing abandon after a minute or so of the gates being open, let's say - doesn't harm Survs, doesn't harm Killers, and doesn't harm the experience.
As long as there is a hook/down condition to the timer sure. Like if someone is on the hook or downed and the gates are opened, there is no timer. If someone is rehooked or downed the timer resets.
Timer only ticks down if noone is hooked/down
Sounds good to me. Doesnt devalue endgame play-1 -
Who would it hurt? The game as a whole. The community as a whole. If there's one thing this community has proven, it's that people are VERY good at finding ways to abuse things, even if you or I can't see how abandoning when exit gates are powered could be abusable right now.
Second, people keep asking for more and more situations in which the abandon option should become available (like this thread proves). As has been said multiple times, the line has to be drawn somewhere. If for whatever reason the devs did this, how many more abandon conditions will people demand?
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That's why I think one minute is fine. Even when we have a situation with a slug on the ground and a person on hook, Mori and abandon can happen. The Survivor doesn't have to stay in it, neither do, so the abandon option's present. That's less than about a minute.
In my experience, the only reason Survivors ever sit in the gates for longer than a minute is to force the Killer to watch them leave. It doesn't take a minute to heal in the gates, set up to run in and go save, or do any sort of waiting to see if your friend is coming. You only sit in the gates as Survivor for longer than one minute to try and make the Killer force you out, or to make them watch you leave. That's ALWAYS been how it is in the thousands of rounds I've played since 2017.
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That ship has sailed by allowing Survivors to abandon, then, and that's why BHVR resisted adding it for so long.
My point stands. One minute in the gates should be all the time Survivors get before the Killer can choose to abandon. This allows endgame plays while also giving the Killer the option to forfeit if the Survivors are behaving like gremlins.
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It doesn't take a minute to heal in the gates, set up to run in and go save, or do any sort of waiting to see if your friend is coming.
It absolutely does take time. The EGC timer is 2 minutes by default, and it ticks down half that time when someone is hooked or downed, meaning matches can last up to 4 minutes after the gates are opened. I’ve played plenty of matches where the timer’s on its final seconds because of multiple hook trades, close chases, clenching our cheeks trying to get a bigger save.
Failing miserably or succeeding.Those last-minute saves, panic body blocks, and “barely made it out” moments are some of the most intense and rewarding parts of the game. Letting the killer just hit a “quit” button because they don’t feel like it anymore robs us of that payoff and reduces the endgame to nothing.
Imagine motorsport: the person in 2nd place decides to just end the entire race for everyone because they don’t feel like chasing 1st place anymore. That’s poor sportsmanship.
That’s what hookacides were: a refusal to see the match through because it wasn’t going your way.
This isn't the same as slugging. Slugging is like having your car taken from you while your opponent drives donuts around you and FaceTimes your loss. One is giving up on a match and not seeing things through to the end. The other is being denied the chance to compete.
And that's the core difference: quitting is a choice, but it shouldn't be something the game builds around. Gameplay comes first. And with slugging there was no gameplay.
The endgame collapse there is plenty of gameplay still. And its more than 60 second timer2 -
See, that's the thing. I don't play Huntress let alone iri hatch Huntress. If the gates are open, all the survivors are there healthy and all then why can't I just abandon? I know it's a lost game, they know it's a win. I can still choose to do something about it but in the final 2 minutes of the match I think it's safe to say I'm not getting any more hooks so I think it's fair to abandon and move onto the next match.
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Here's the big question nobody is asking: Who would it be hurting to simply let this be a thing? And I have never gotten a good answer for it.It depends: are we talking about a how we would design the game if we could, or are we talking about BHVR's reasons for the abandon and why they held off for so long?
If we're just leaving BHVR out of it and imagining that we can just put things into the game, well then we're talking about the merits of a surrender option. Different people have different feelings on this. There's lots of scenarios where people would surrender if they could, not just open exit gates.
Me, I'd be fine with it, but lots of people feel differently.
If we're comparing it to BHVR's stance, they seem to want abandon's to be limited to extreme circumstances. Maybe because they think expanding it would impact kill rates, maybe their customer research and data shows the 4 minute bleed out timer is much worse and more frequent than the 2 minute EGC, maybe the time it would take to get bots coded for all of the killers would be substantial and they don't think its worth the investment.
If we're talking about hurting, BHVR has to actually code and implement things which takes time, they have metrics they design the game around, and have to balance between a diverse array of players with different desires for the game.
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It. Does. Not. Take. One. Minute. To. Heal.
One minute is enough for those last minute clutch plays.
One minute is enough to do most things.
I think you maybe just enjoy the idea of pushing Survs out, and that's fine. Some Killer players don't. Adding an abandon feature that is optional for this situation does nothing to your enjoyment and enhances theirs.
It shouldn't be built around it, but now it is, this is where we are now. Because of that regardless of your feelings, it is fair to allow other reasons for Killers to concede. Forfeits will always be a thing, and always okay, in gaming regardless of how you and others feel about it or not.
Game needs an option for Killers to abandon if Survivors are trying to irritate them on purpose. Period. I don't care who thinks otherwise.
Post edited by BoxGhost on-3 -
Realistically BHVR will probably eventually add this once we get Killer bots, and like it or lump it all the naysayers will just have to deal with it.
And it still will not ruin their games.
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Far more often than not, the game is over once the gates are open.99/100 games, the game is lost once those exit gates open, barring an endgame perkI think 99/100 is an extreme exaggeration. I've played a bunch of games today and can think of two where we got the exit gates open and the trial was still very much going on.
Situations where the survivors open the gate and then go for a save or times when one or more survivors get pushed out while the other survivors are still inside aren't at all unusual.
But even if it was 1%, I can think of lots of scenarios in the game where there is 99% chance the game is lost. And maybe an abandon option would be helpful in those scenarios, but all 4 survivors dead, hooked, or slugged is way below 1%.
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I don’t know if that kind of response was really warranted? What’s going on here?
I’m not saying healing itself takes over a minute. It can I guess… take longer depending on the situation? If you just took a hit through sloppy, if everyone’s trying to rally a teamplay in soloQ, or if you’re scrambling to communicate with nothing but our two most epic emotes of the century to make a play.
The chaos is half the fun. Maybe someone has to go cleanse NOED or find it. Maybe someone sets up a babysitter play or a reassurance. Maybe someone just blind rushes a save and we all yell and laugh when it falls apart including the killer. That can easily stretch past 60 seconds, and it’s often the best part of the match.
Some of my favorite games ended with the EGC timer blinking red while we failed or half-succeeded to make some silly play that WOULD NEVER work. Even when some of us died, it was still meaningful because everyone saw it through the end. Killer included.
Giving the killer a “nope, I think I lost” button would rip that away.I honestly don’t understand how someone can have played thousands of matches and not see this as a core part of DBD. Wanting to skip this phase because it’s uncomfortable or uncertain is exactly how giving up on hook started, and it would be used the same way all over again.
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And itstillwill not ruin their games.Ruin the game is kind of a high bar. There's lots of things they could do that would be objectively bad that I don't think would ruin the game.
I imagine you are correct that if the killer bots were in BHVR would likely do it, but that is a hurdle they haven't crossed yet.
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Making a comeback in those circumstances relies entirely on the survivor making mistakes that can be capitalized on. Stuff like your going back for a save isn't the issue, that kind of stuff is completely fine. The issue is that survivors can nope out too fast because they were trying to address the proper reason for implementing the mechanic (4 man slugs) but also threw in almost no restrictions, nor considerations for things that could turn the game around in that state. You know, as a treat.
So one side can leave the moment they are in a check (not even a checkmate) while the other side can't even leave while in a checkmate until after they partake in "The Ritual" or they just wait out the 2-4 minute timer. One side is shielded from BM by the devs, the other isn't. You can come up with whatever what ifs to pidgeonhole the argument, but the design consideration focus is literally not even. And if your opinion is that them being uneven is fine for whatever reason you come up with, that doesn't change the fact it is not equitable nor does it address anyone who has an issue with that specifically. You're welcome to that opinion, but it should be pretty understandable why others would take issue with it.
But even if it was 1%, I can think of lots of scenarios in the game where there is 99% chance the game is lost.Reminder that survivors can still bring offerings and perks which not only can re-enable the ability to 4%, but can even guarantee it under the right circumstances. Or just pick themselves up. They not only have more than a 1% chance of getting back in the game, but can even lead to a full reset. Especially if they're the last survivor and it gives them a chance at hatch/gates in egc. The problem is that a lot of that chance is not basekit, so the survivors are required to invest at least something into their ability to reset a lost game, and that's simply too much to ask. Why even run those perks or bring those offerings when you can just wait for a chance to nope out the second it looks too grim? You wont win, but you will almost never be stuck in a losing match for longer than it takes to either die, or your team to wipe, whichever comes first. There is just no consistency in design, and it feels like people use the asymmetrical nature as an excuse instead of finding a middle ground that actually fixes the issue for both sides.
To be honest, the only reason I even responded, even knowing we probably won't see eye to eye on this, is because you tend to focus on logical consistency. The vast majority of stuff from people like the other guy always centers around wanting something while not wanting others to have it, instead of actual consistency in design. Whether it be disregarding comeback potential specifically for one side, only respecting the time of specifically one side, disabling the ability to BM from an advantageous position VERY specifically for one side, or simply just allowing specifically one side to be allowed to completely ignore taking perks that were designed to give you a chance in a game losing situation to stage a comeback. Its not about what they implemented, it will always be about how.
Also all the dishonest ones are free to downvote this into oblivion. Its not the OP, so it won't bury the topic.
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