http://dbd.game/killswitch
Shouldn't Off the Record deactivate when healed to full?
I don't really understand why survivors are able to weaponize OTR by getting in front of the killer when healed and being able to tank 2 hits?
If you are healed to full, you are definetly not being tunneled. I could argue it should be the same for DS.
It is not that easy as "just hit the survivor", as now is not enough to hit them once but twice. Hell if they have DS they can still tank a 3rd hit, knowing that being down will not be a problem at all, while their mate and the original target can keep chaining loops forever.
Its a lose-lose situation for the killer. Also yes the survivor weaponizing the perk is not doing gens, but probably their two mates are. If you keep with the chase it will last a hell tons of time. If you decide to leave the chase then you have already lost time in it and leading into nothing just because the survivor could tank an extra hit that he shouldn't be able to.
The worst part is that im not even trying to tunnel, i am actively trying to get the other survivor but i am being punished by one of the "anti-tunneling" perks.
Comments
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I don't think it's such an issue, when it works even when healed.
Kinda annoying thing is, you wouldn't be able to heal against instadown killers with this change.-10 -
Shouldn't Off the Record deactivate when healed to full?
Yes
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Yeah, it should. It's an anti tunnel perk. If a survivor managed to get fully healed, they clearly aren't getting tunneled off hook. if you can do a full reset away from the killer, you're back on the menu.
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No it shouldn't deactivate when healed. If you barely get healed in time but the killer is still going back to hook for you that is still tunneling.
If your issue with OTR is using it aggressively to bodyblock for other survivors, I agree that's annoying and something that could be addressed, but having it deactivate when healed wouldn't be the best solution for that. You don't need to get healed to make that strategy effective.
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Yes, everyone knows that a survivor is only NOT tunneled when they have a chance to do a full gen, get healed, and start clicking the killer from the strongest tile on the map.
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No, phase 2 anti tunnel thing is coming soon, why would you nerf the only decent anti tunnel perk before adressing it ?
Conspicious actions by the way, doing anything disable OTR you can't progress the game
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That's not what I said at all, imo if you get off hook and touch a generator for even a fraction of a second then you're fair game to be chased again immediately, that's not tunneling at all
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This would make no sense. If you run ds/resurgence meta or teammate has we'll make it and you have OTR then it doesn't mean you are not about to get tunneled. Killer can proxaycamp or immiditealy come back for you. The only way to get antitunnel would be if killer stays at hook and follows you after someone traded which makes absolutely no sense. Game design atm is shifting towards more healthy state. I'm still suprised how people want to do steps back that took ages to do. EGC is already killer friendly, and if someone is playing tunnel playstyle idm, but I don't see any reason why antitunnel should be removed while altruistically healed, not even saying that some killers have way easier time to tunnel than others. And if survivor heals himself, he already lost the protection so there is no problem.
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So it is totally fine for the survivor to bodyblock the killer taking advantage of OTR?
Keep in mind that my main point of the discussion was mostly on weaponizing OTR. Usually a healthy survivor will take one hit trying to cover a mate. Two if they dont mind to be downed if they are desperate to save them.
Problem is people get healed and go bodyblock survivor and by how much time OTR stays on, they have plenty of time to do it, and they can now block up to 3 hits safely.
The main question is, why on this case i am being punished by an "anti-tunnel" perk when i am trying my hardest to not tunnel?
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I didn't even know it didn't deactivate when you get healed. I thought that is a conspicous action.
Well, the more you know.
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It gets deactivated at the moment you start healing yourself, however it does not if someone heals you even into full heal.
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Well, that's odd.
I wouldn't mind the stealth effects staying, but the endurance too? Seems like a bit of an oversight.
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May i ask you then why it deactivates the moment you start healing yourself, if the killer can still go back to the hook to keep tunneling you?
It makes sense because on that case you are the one deciding to heal and its full on you, however you can also stop being healed at any moment by pressing the run button, so being healed its also on you.
But on one case it deactivates and in the other does not, why then?
I totally understand that it doesn't deactivate the moment you start being healed because a teammate could totally ######### you up, but being healed to full its fully on you, the same as healing yourself.
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Yes, my main concern is about the endurance and the survivors weaponizing it to get an extra hit bodyblocking a survivor. Usually survivors can bodyblock one hit or even two if they dont mind to be downed to save a teammate, but with OTR they can tank up to 3 hits, actively punishing the killer with an "anti-tunnel" perk when he is not trying to tunnel.
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True, they can. But how many times that happened to you? How many times people try to do that? People really crying about nonsenses while truly busted thingsthat are common exist. Surely you should punish people for altruistic gameplay removing any element other than "sit on gens" from the game, leaving it even more lose-lose, win-win scenarios. more people of gen the better. People really don't understand the game mechanics and want the game to be as easy as possible win "only one condition" to play. I play both sides, more of killer. But everyone should understand that half a killer don't care about OTR because their kit and more off gen actions happen the higher your odds of winning. If you want the game to become the gameplay of survivor = sit on gens, killer = tunnel and camp then surely. I feel the game needs to adjust stronger and weaker killers more in line along with stonger and weaker maps and than adjusting the core.
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I mean, its not really needed to go that deep, honestly. If they can weaponize an anti-tunnel perk, then it should be looked at.
Yes, that doesn't mean there are other things that needs fixing in this game, on that i completely agree. But my point still persist: survivors should not be able to weaponize an anti-tunnel perk when the killer is not tunneling, no matter if that doesn't happen "a lot" or it does.
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I don't think that one of main antitunnel perk should be nerfed just because one of 50 games someone will block with it. I see blocking with base bt much more often and at this point, if they force you to tunnel, then be it.
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And then once of every 50 games you get a Nurse and people seem to universally agree than she should be nerfed.
I do think that "small" things should not be overlooked just because they do not happen that much, as long as reasons do exist for them to be changed.
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Meanwhile, the pick rate of the knockout was 1.4% but it was nerfed anyway, If something is rarely used, it does not mean that it should bypass the balance rules
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For OG post what about DS if fully healed?
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Honestly if its also an "anti-tunnel" perk, it should also deactivate when healed to full, as if you got healed it means that you were not being tunneled, or at least you took the decision that it was a good time to heal (the same way that start healing yourself deactivates both OTR and DS).
Having said that, at least you can chose to pick up the survivor or not if it tries go weaponize it by bodyblocking a teammate with it. With OTR either you hit the survivor a third time and lose even more time in the chase or you chose to not hit and you end also losing time in the chase by trying to reach the targeted survivor by going another way.
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otr ds dead hard and other perks that activate when hooked should be deactivated when fully healed. i agree with you
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Well honestly i dont really consider Dead Hard an anti tunnel perk. It just happens to activate while wounded but it doesn't relate to being tunneled…
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i do because when it's successful it extends the chase when q survivor would normally go down
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OTR needs to remove player collision while active and deactivate when fully healed by any means. No more nonsense, please.
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I thought about the losing collision thing, and i think it's a good idea. This could make the bodyblock at least impossible.
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Nonsense is to deactivate antitunnel by altruistic heal. Only idiot will sit on hook, if you move away they'll have time to heal and you can go for the tunnel easily. It's like if you say that if gen get's exploded it would prevent from being blocked.
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Out of curiosity… then why does it deactivate at the moment you start healing yourself? Same example can apply, the killer can go back for the tunnel easily after you start healing yourself.
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It was mainly added because people with decisive strike were doing gens providing them invincibility. Since then they added consicious actions - healing self, blessing, cleansing… deactivating any source of endurance and decisive strike. So If you are unhook and want to heal yourself at price of deactivating antitunnel when killer can immidiately come back, it's your decision.
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I know the reasons why it was added, what i meant it that it doesnt make sense that it deactivates when starting to heal but not when someone heals you to full. The interesting part is the last thing you said: "its your decision". But you can also stop being healed at any time if you want, so being healed to full its also your decision, the same as healing yourself.
If you decide to start healing yourself when the killer can come back, OTR/DS deactivates.
If you decide to let others heal you to full when the killer can come back, OTR/DS does not deactivate.
It was your decision in both cases.
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It's simple. It's not added to altruistic heals to not be abusable with syringes, some perks etc. It's main source of antitunnel that was a big step towards healthier game. While I'd argue that people with endurance might lose collision with killers, doing step back with deactivating antitunnel on altruistic actions is just straight contraproductive. 3-4 years back the game was in completely different and insanely unhealthier state for both sides, with a lot of balance done to perks, playstyles and maps both sides now have way more managable scenarios.
Ex1: You played Pig on old Thompson House that had total of 32 pallets and way stronger main building, you down someone after ages and they ratted in, pressed one button and the person was compeltely healthy.
Ex2: You got hooked, someone unhooked you, you have no base bt, random didn!t have bt, killer downed you within few seconds and moried you.
Ex3: You played killer, back then with only a few available slowdowns. You managed to kill two people and two survivors escaped through hatch for free.
Etc., etc. No point in punishing altruism when altruism was maint point to reach. As I said, people with endurance losing collisions with killer, why not. But doing steps back in game health, no. There are already 70 % of very strong killers that can down you quite quickly if they truly want to and not punishing tunneling would just make it even more played playstyle. The true thing game needs is to raise strenght of those 5 killers who suck.
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You are going like extremely deep and i think you are exaggerating a tiny bit. Even if they made OTR/DS to go off when you heal to full is not going to of all sudden multiply tunneling x200 and make the game of all sudden far worse.
However… i must admit that i didnt think about the syringe addon and that could definetly be a problem as it is instant and a teammate can just deactivate your anti-tunnel perks even if you dont want it.
I think it could be coded for those cases. But still…. when it is really considered "tunneling"? It is usually when you go after the same person just after he got unhooked, but if you are already full healed the chase is fully reset 100%, so i think it loses a bit of the meaning of "tunneling".
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Tunnelling is trying to get a player out of the game as fast as possible by focusing on them, regardless of the steps imbetween. If that's your goal you are Tunneling AKA focusing that person out.
Anti-Tunnel is to buy time for a survivor if they are being focused in chase to get free from the killer, stay in the game and allow them a turn to work on objectives by making them less enticing.
If you want it removed so badly, leave them alone or hit them as soon as possible. If they are following you they arent doing gens, right?1 -
I understand it. Fully heal = you are more likely resist being tunneled. But you have to think how wide is the roaster. While tunneling as Wesker, Pig, Demo… can take some time, killers like Billy, Nurse, Kaneki… can tunnel someone out extremely quickly. At the moment, there is no reason to punish altruism. Losing collision though, i agree.
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As i explained in my first post, i don't think it's as easy as "just hit them or leave them". I shouldnt need to hit the one bodyblocking with OTR and i shouldnt need to leave the chase because one of them is bodyblocking with OTR. That is an anti-tunnel perk and im trying to go after other survivor, i should not be punished by an anti-tunnel perk if i am not tunneling.
And about your description…i do think is not that acurrate. So, for example, lets say i hook a survivor and leave the hook into other gens. The survivor gets unhooked. I dont find any other survivor on the map. Then i find other survivor and i hit him, but he goes into a strong looping zone and with no gens in it, so i leave it. I wander around the map and i find the survivor that i hooked, so i start a chase with it. It has been like 3-4 minutes since that survivor was unhooked.
By your description, i am tunneling the survivor. But i dont actually think that is actual tunneling.
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You're basically making excuses for not dealing with the situation at hand though? You had options but you're saying "I shouldn't need to", so you'd let them get in the way making themselves more vulnerable and easier to tunnel? If a survivor is doing that punish them for it, they still have to remove deep wounds then do something else.
My description is accurate you're just overcomplicating the term tunneling. lol You're getting them out as soon as possible comparitively to other survivors, whether or not that is intentional.
Tunneling = focusing, so by choosing to focus them you are tunneling. If the other survivor did all that time doing nothing to remove DS/OTR, then they weren't doing gens.
So you gave up your previous chase to focus someone who wasn't being productive, all because you couldn't play X tile properly, if others were doing gens then there WAS options.-1 -
This.. kinda remebers me of the time when people were discussing about survivors weaponizing DS by going into gens before the Conspicuous Actions were a thing, and some people were defending that DS did not need to deactivate when doing a gen, you could just leave the survivor in the ground. If they also had Unbreakable, then at least there was some time where they were not doing the gen. Sure it was not "fair" but hey, killers had options to do.
But after all, the Conspicuous Actions were added, because survivors were weaponizing it. My point is the same, do i have options? Yes of course i have, but even if i have them i still think its neither fair nor logic to get pusnished by an anti-tunnel perk if i am not even tunneling in the first place (talking about bodyblocking hits).
No need to get nitpicky with my example. What i just meant is "I hook survivor and leave to search others. Survivor is unhooked. I do not find any other survivor and some time later it just happen that i find the survivor that was hooked early."
Im sorry but on that case if i go after that survivor im for sure not tunneling them. There was time for the chase to be reset, and i didnt make my way to search for him, it just did happen to get in front of me, and leaving him would be just not playing correctly on purpose. Would be similar as survivors just stopping doing the gens and start watching the sky instead of repairing the gens.
Similar problem as everything related to doing gens is started to get called "gen rushing". Hooking a survivor two times even if you didnt hook other survivors in between, can or cannot be tunneling. It depends.
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So let me clarify, I mean specifically the act of getting a survivor out of a game first and as soon as possible. Conspicuous actions are very different from killing a survivor who is trying to recover from being focused out AKA Tunneling.
If a survivor is doing nothing in the entirety of OTR's duration, they are more of a detriment to the other survivors and a boon to us killers.
I just find it an extreme case of a survivor somehow doing nothing in all the time they had it up is really unlikely. Usually I encounter it when I intercept a survivor BEING HEALED who is trying to recover.
I feel it's fine to have to work a little harder to get someone out, it's applying pressure and powering through the perk, it happens and is doable some killers have an easier time than others doing so too (deep wound killers).
I just don't see an issue with a perk doing what it's designed to do. If it's being weaponised, I find it's the most annoying when you're trying to tunnel survivors out to reduce pressure but all 4 of them have the perk (therefor a team who has built completly against such a tactic).
I really like rapid brutality and STBFL for endurance, since I can farm off it and keep the pressure going.-5 -
not only that but while they have hook endurance they shouldnt have any collision at all for killers. Basically you can use OTR,DS,BT as weapons to get out of the hook and bodyblock super strongly with the hook haste on top of it.
I love that we talk about chasing the rescuer, but the rescued just keeps getting into your way until you eat the ds or slug them, also these antitunnel perks should deactivate once another person is hooked, in high mmr you will constantly see someone come back full life to get aggro just to still have OTR or DS even after you hooked, kicked gens and such. Now its worsened because resetting is FAST
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I don't think so.
Someone could get a fast heal with We'll Make It or Botany before the killer returns, but that doesn't mean the survivor they unhooked isn't going to be tunneled.
There can be scenarios where that happens, and OTR shouldn't deactivate then.
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It's unfortunately one of those things that is very rarely used in solo queue and just being abused by SWF teams.
You can't really nerf it without potentially screwing over the majority of the survivor playerbase who aren't using it in that way.
I've also had the thought that protection hits should count as conspicuous actions, but the problem is that there are so many situations that the killer can force something to count as a protection hit when it really isn't (hitting right off hook) and then there's issues.
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I don’t feel like anti-tunneling needs a nerf at the moment tbh
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The game needs to add "intentional bodyblocking" to the list of conspicuous actions.
Yes, it would take a lot of coding to figure this out, but if a survivor is intentionally bodyblocking, then they aren't being tunneled. The biggest problem with anti-tunnel perks, are survivors weaponizing them against killers that are trying to chase someone else.
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Well, i totally respect your opinion but i think this is where we cannot agree. You feel it is fine to work a bit harder on those cases, like it's fine to get punished by an anti-tunnel perk if you are not tunneling, while i think it is not fine, no matter if there are options that can make you do it faster or not. It's an anti-tunnel perk and should not punish non-tunnelers.
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Even if it's a fast heal, it is still your decision to finish it up or not, you can still cancel being healed by pressing the run button.
The same way as if you decide to start healing, the killer can still come after you before you finish, but it still deactivates at the moment you start with the healing action.
The only problem i see is with "instant" heals like syringe or any instant heal perk, but i suppose it can be coded differently for those cases.
However i think that one very safe thing they can do at the very least is to make the survivor collision as long as OTR/DS/Basekit BT is active to just dissapear. It will still protect you if the killer decides to tunnel but you will not be able to weaponize them.
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That idea is amazing.
If a survivor has an endurance effect active, just get rid of their collision so they can't bodyblock the killer.
This would make the perks stronger at actually functioning as anti-tunnel, so it's a good change.
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its funny how a lot of people in this thread defend unhealthy things because that means "nerfing" anti tunnelling perks because if people couldnt weaponize them, that would mean less people running them.
the overall design of anti tunnelling perks is frankly terrible, if at any point the optimal play with the supposed "anti tunnelling" mechanic is to go out of your way to GET TUNNELLED then the whole mechanic stops accomplishing its goal and just becomes glorified overpowered anti killer perk.
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That's fine, I just don't like people arguing that survivors should be even easier to kill in a game where tunneling is a huge issue, when powering through these perks takes 0 effort rn as it is.
I think when we have baseline anti tunnel we can talk, because we still dont have faster unhook times to compensate for the faster m1 speeds for example. So much which has been ignored since 6.1.00 -
No. It functions just the same as DS. Teammates heal alot faster than self healing, which incentivises basekit anti tunnel. Self healing makes sense as a conspicuous action since if your wasting so much time self healing, you clearly aren't being tunneled.
-1 -
Just out of curiosity, why you do not seem to agree with losing collision as long as OTR is active?
You mention the tunneling but if they just make unhooked survivor lose collision then that will absolutely not affect tunneling at all. The killer will be able to go after the unhooker, the unhooked survivor will not be able to weaponize OTR and if the killer wants to kill the unhooked survivor even with full heal then he will need to power over the two heal states + OTR.
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