http://dbd.game/killswitch
"M1 Killer" Does Not (Inherently) Mean "Weak Killer"
Comments
-
Did you think the number 1 nurse in the world would be the same guy as the number 1 Twins? Comp killers are generally really good "jack of all trades". As for the SWFaspect... no, i dont think your 4 man non comp SWF players are doing the same stuff as their comp counterparts. Theyre looking at their friendslist and saw their buddy is online. You can get 4 good players together, but they generallydont have the same team cohesion.
0 -
Absolutelly true and yet if they just do clock callouts they are already better than 99% of pub teams.
0 -
Again, you keep comparing comp DBD to AVERAGE players.
"Theyre looking at their friendslist and saw their buddy is online" is a statement about AVERAGE PLAYERS.
This entire argument is supposed to be "Are comp players the BEST players in the game"? As in literally better than everyone else.
0 -
I think he's more saying that a comp player is inherently going to be able to coordinate more than a non-comp player. When you're focused on a coordinated environment, you tend to get better at compensating for other non-coordinated players due to knowing what you're supposed to be doing (and when) without needing to be told. I don't agree with comp players always being better than non-comp players, just that they gain experience in coordination in a way that helps them deal with its absence if they properly utilize that skill. Non-comp SWFs obviously have this same potential, but generally not in an environment that focuses strictly on things like efficiency, unless they center around pubstomping.
0 -
Depends on what you're measuring. Individually? Not really. The thing that the comp survivors exel at is the team aspect. You're not really gonna see that level of team cohesion from non comp SWFs unless they're practicing to get into comp.
As for the killer aspect, like I said...really good jack of all trades. If you compare players who can just pick their best stuff every match, youll find plenty of non-comp players excelling. If you have something like a killer wheel picking their characters, the comp players are gonna win more matches since they are competent with most of the killer roster.
0 -
I mean so far any very good pub team/killer that has faced comp players had been destroyed. Like a lot of players with 10k+ hours have played against comp player to try and prove your point and lost. Even then the pub player could use all they wanted to, and play killers like blight and nurse, still got wrecked.
Do I have a presedent of a comp player facing 1800 teams in pubs and only being stopped by 1 comp team as well as any person saying they are the best x killer or have the most stats in a particular killer getting dunked on by comp teams when they face the., yeah I will assume until proven otherwise comp players are vastly better than whatever you find in pubs because so far no proof has been offered of it being the opposite.
Your argument boils down to people saying olympic swimmers are not thr best swimmers because somehow out there there is one random person who is faster, we don't know they exist, no proof of how fast they swim but you just have to trust they are the best.
0 -
That’s literally the argument though. The argument literally is “are comp players the BEST players in the game”?
0 -
Thats the thing though, are you trying to compare the pinnacles, or the averages? Either way, the chances are higher of them putting the comp player(s) over the non-comp one(s.) There isn't an objective metric to try to factually state for or against the claim, the only objective measure would have to be based off of one of those two metrics, which can only be assumed. The claim is essentially a very reasonable assumption, even if not an objective fact.
0 -
Spirit is a unique case where she's kind of an M1/M2 hybrid. Her power makes her post-phase M1's act almost like an M2. However, I think most other killers can be described as M1 or M2 based on how they get the majority of their damage, and if their M2 is a direct ability or if it's more indirect.
For instance, the Knight is an M1 killer, despite the fact that he CAN get damage off of his M2. Skull Merchant is an M1 killer, despite getting damage off her M2. Same goes for Trapper.
1 -
Im kinda surprised Spirit hasn't gotten the Nurse treatment yet. Her ability is a movement ability meant for allowing her to rapidly close distance and land a attack with her only weapon... like we can see with Nurse, Blight, and Chucky.
-1 -
Spirit isn't really at Nurse level, though, especially since the nerfs. I also don't think her ability is powerful enough to make it an M2 while keeping her a 4.4 killer. If they were to make her post phase attacks not count as a basic attack, I think it would be fair to increase her movement speed to 4.6 like Blight or Kaneki.
Plus, I bet it'd be a nightmare to code. How long after a phase would her attacks not count as basic attacks? One second? Two?
1 -
Are you for reals comparing comp DBD to the Olympics?
Pinnacles.
And it's not a reasonable assumption, because it assumes the absolutely best players in the world, would obviously want to play in comp DBD. But it's still a fact that comp DBD is still a niche group of people, and there's zero evidence that the absolute best players in the world would want to join this group.
1 -
The real meaning of "M1 killer" from killer mains in practice, is "I'm performing below average in spite of every single killer in the game being designed to win more than they lose, so I need an excuse for why I'm bad at the game instead of learning to play killer."
-3 -
and there's zero evidence that the absolute best players in the world would want to join this group.But is there any evidence that the best players in the world wouldn't want to join that group? The nature of competition is not only in personal skill, but one's ability to adapt to opposing skill. The average caliber of player is going to be higher, therefore each player is generally getting the most experience against similarly high caliber players. You're kinda leaning way too hard into the possibly of some kind of DBD Will Hunting out there, which while possible, is less probable than the best player being among players who regularly experience curated high level play.
I'm not even saying I agree with either stance, since it's not really something thats quantifiable, just that claiming that the best player is more likely to be from a competitive scene is a more reasonable assessment than claiming they aren't.
0 -
That right there is why this whole discussion is kinda moot. The only difference between a basic attack and a special attack is if BHVR says its not a basic attack for balance sake it seems. Deathslinger downing someone after using his power to shoot them counts as a basic attack, while Huntress using HER power to down someone while moving at 4.4 too is a special attack.
0 -
Because it's a niche group, with a gigantic list of custom rules, and isn't anything like public DBD games.
And the custom rules themselves are controversial. Do you really think all the top players are going to agree the custom rules make the game "more balanced"? Obviously not. There are many players, of all skill levels, that think the comp DBD custom rules are ridiculous.
1 -
I think there is some logic that Behavior uses. For instance, every attack that is executed by pressing M2 is a special attack. Huntress hatches, Kaneki leaps, Artist crows, Xeno tails, etc. This also applies to any attack where you damage the survivor with anything other than your base weapon (Nemi whips, Wesker dashes)
Every attack that is ONLY procced by pressing M1 is a basic attack.
The only grey area are attacks that involve both M2 and M1, while also dealing damage with the base weapon. Spirit phases, Deathslinger reels, Nurse blinks, Blight rushes, etc. Whether these attacks count as basic or special attacks seem to be entirely up to balance, and also if it feels like a basic attack.
When we're talking about Spirit, her attack doesn't feel like a special attack. It feels like a basic attack after the end of a phase because she can choose not to attack at all and there's no fatigue or punishment. She can continue to chase like normal. Whether she attacks or not is completely up to the player. Meanwhile, even though Blight rushes use the exact same buttons, they feel like a special attack. It's a dash that ends with a swing, but you can choose to swing early. Either way, you're going through the cooldown animation. Same with Nurse.
0 -
Fun condratrition with that one is Houndmaster. Depending on the timing of the bite, the dog itself can injure or down. Dog by itself=special attack. Getting double teamed by dog AND master though... is apparently basic.
0 -
That's not a contradiction.
The dog is something that damages the survivor that isn't the Houndmaster's main weapon = special attack
The dog holding the survivor in place so that the Houndmaster can damage with her main weapon = basic attack
The Houndmaster hitting with her blade while the survivor is pinned by the dog feels like a basic attack. It uses the basic attack animation, lunge, etc. The dog damaging by itself doesn't feel like a basic attack, and isn't the Houndmaster's main weapon, so therefore it's a special.
0 -
Its also essentially the only time where if something is even being considered an attack or not is iffy. If I send a dog to a survivor and they choose not to move... thats not an attack. If I do that same exact thing and they try to vault, now its attack.
0 -
Not really. The dog will attempt to grab you. If you are mid-animation and can't be grabbed, it will instead damage you. Pretty simple.
0 -
Generally when it's said, it refers to m1 killers with no mobility. They are the weakest possible class of killers. Remember, "weak" inherently is a comparison, as you have to compare it to something else to claim such weakness. Compared to killers like nurse\blight\nurse\and even m1 killers like ghoul that have mobility, they simply underperform drastically hence the weak claim.
Any killer without map mobility is inherently very weak vs ones with map mobility. This creates a grand divide between killers. Once we're looking at all killers without map mobility, many of them have ranged attacks, or otherwise ways to deal with loops such as anti-loop…the others are just m1 killers which have no anti-loop, ranged, and so on….yet another grand divide. This leaves the m1 killers with no mobility as effectively being the weakest kinds of killers. Does that mean they are crap killers? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps they are fine, but the other killers are simply too strong. However, they are clearly weaker than the killers with mobility. Long story short, they may not be "weak" to their job, but they are certainly weak when compared to the other killer options.
0 -
Depends of your definition of m1 killer, lets say now I refer to ones that doesnt have crazy mobility ( dreadge,wraith and sadako isnt ones I mean) like blight,ghoul,singularity arent weak ones but killers like ghostface, mayers even they can instadown they are still weak as m1 but at least they can dead with health states with instadown (that doesnt mean they doesnt need buffs, they are quite weak in top 10 weakest killers even they can deal with heath states or bodyblocking they powers are still limited more than killers like billy,oni, they are bad without good addons thats what keeps them above watter addons like tombstone, driving licence), killers like pinhead,trapper,clown lack mobility and even m1 with some mobility like wraith and dreadge are still powerless against bodyblocks and fast heals, resets thats what makes them weak even someone like legion who can injure whole team in like 20 seconds still lacks mobility and antiloop to secure fast hooks thats why ghoul is better he is like legion/blight hybrid he can do the same thing (injure more survivors slower but has more mobility and range combined with huge mobility, antiloop in for of vault. M1 arent weak but they can be slowed down pretty easily by better survivor teams or swfs ( I remember like one time otz failed his pinhead streak and he played well but survivors just were very good in bodyblocking and fast on gens with some strong medkits and even he played one of best killers with passive slowndown he still lost to their bodyblocks.
0
