http://dbd.game/killswitch
Don't Nerf The Ghoul
It's skull merchant all over again. The second I open reddit or other platforms, players are begging for a execution nerf like they did to SM. Many players give up, or straight up hide all game just to make Ghoul players suffer or make his kill rate higher than it should be. And even if he gets nerfed, people will continue DC'ing or continue getting tilted no matter what (Just like skull merchant)
No matter what happens, please don't make him another skull merchant or other forgotten killers. He is fun to play as and against. Others will comment and write a looong paragraph on how wrong I am and try to belittle me with fancy yet meaningless words but I do not care. If he needs to get nerfed just nerf or change his add-ons not his base-kit.
Comments
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You're first mistake was going to Reddit for anything other than memes.
You're second mistake was assuming what people want based on the loud minority.
Actually reasonable people only care about the kidnap tech & power cancel into M1 being too generous.
Those two hiccups aside, Ghoul is basically perfect.
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Actually reasonable people only care about the kidnap tech & power cancel into M1 being too generous.
Yep, fix those and I am fine with him.
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I'm glad people think this way :')
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Skull merchant was nothing like ghoul. She was never that popular and she was mid tier at best. The issue with her was lingering dislike from the chess merchant iteration and an unwillingness to learn her counterplay(turn off drones).
Ghoul is a licensed and extremely popular killer. They will never do to him what they did to SM.
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Personally, I do yield that autoaim is a bit annoying, especially with it locking you in place.
But, I also play Ghoul on and off, and understand why and how his power works. Not denying he's S tier, but he does have a few flaws, like greeding pallets when he attempts to plan a vault once you drop it, or hugging loops tight to deny his slide and cancel. And just because he can get a free hit doesn't always mean he can down the survivor, much like Legion, though he DOES have better options.
That said, from playing him myself, the few things I could say that would need some tuning is the cancel cooldown should be half a second or a second longer because it really is far too easy to cut off survivors, as well as better tells when he's aiming his power because it can be pretty subtle at times, and his effectiveness to return to hooks is massive, but to be fair Nurse and Blight, as well as Hillbilly to an extent aren't excluded from that complaint nor can it be changed in a fair way for both sides.
In conclusion, do NOT give Ken the SM treatment. Think the changes through carefully.3 -
Agreed, but his cancel shouldn't be nerfed. If anything it should be incentivized, It's much more engaging than boring vault gameplay. It's damn annoying in the open but that's his strength. He forces you to position correctly and have a solid plan.
I mean look at this. You could argue this clip in particular would've still been possible with a harsher CD, but that depends on the loop and how the survivor paths. I've hit many cool trickshots that would've missed if I were waiting any longer. (not my clip)
What Ghoul needs is a fix to kidnap, reduced injure range (8-10 meters, was 14)
And an increase to his environment range (revert nerfs including range addon)
His ranges should be separate, currently his injure and environment ranges are unified.-3 -
Okay while I just said his cancel should be looked into, that cutoff was pretty sick.
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I remember you. You have a clip where you're bouncing off walls in midwich when all you had to do was eat the stun and scamper.
Just like this clip. All you had to do was scamper the pallet but the only way you can enjoy this broken ass killer is to put yourself through gymnastics. This stuff looks fancy but ultimately it's not because the survivor had one choice: stay at the loop. If they leave you catch up and cancel. You can sling yourself to the other side of the map and back but it's just set dressing because the survivor has zero agency against ghoul.
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Just nerf bamboozle addon and mask addon and he is fine in my opinion.
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Watching the clip above, I can't say the Ada didn't have agency in that situation.
Even just watching, the Ada could have double backed instead of committing to the loop during the second use of his power when he was leaving the loop for a second, forcing the Ghoul to either A. move back around the corner and continue the loop, B. Vault the pallet to attempt to cut off the Ada or C. Cancel and save a charge and return to looping. And while it would have been easier to just break the pallet when the Ada is on the wrong end, a skilled play like that was extremely beneficial for saving time since the Ada didn't predict the outcome.
In the moment, it could feel like you'd have no options, but looping a good Ghoul requires fast thinking when he's in frenzy like that. Obviously it's a case-by-case scenario, but that clip above, I see the options the Ada had.
Edit: Wait, can Ghoul even save charges? I actually never payed attention. Regardless, point C. would still just be cancel and return to loop to try and keep Ada there.0 -
She didn't double back because she was wary of scamper, which would have gotten the hit. Instead she went around the loop(supposed ghoul counterplay) and got hit anyway. Thrilling gameplay.
I'm always going to hate ghoul as long as he looks in your direction and immediately wins half the chase. You're essentially permanently exposed vs a killer with insane chase and antiloop. It's dumb as hell.
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This is not Skull Merchant all over again. Skull Merchant was never S tier. She was at most B tier. Ghoul has quite literally 0 counterplay, I know some 5000 hour Survivor main will want to say "Erm ackshually he does you just have to learn how to use the jingle jangle fist my ######### tech" but Ghoul is genuinely insufferable. 0 counterplay, 0 fun for Survivors, 0 skill to use, SM got gutted just because people don't like playing against her, but Ghoul actually needs nerfs from a balance perspective, not just from a fun perspective.
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Scamper wouldn't have mattered if she stayed near the long end of the loop. Sure it's fast, but once he's in scamper animation you move to the other side of the loop and can still benefit from the pallet being there.
And it's less that you're permanently exposed, and more that it's a long range Legion strike. That's fine to hate, but it ain't exposed.0 -
Functionally what makes it different than being exposed? You can't dead hard because of mend. You're not getting a mend off in chase. You're performing the chase with one health state. Every other killer in the game has to actually do stuff to get that kind of value. Ghoul looks at you, you get stunned, injured and deep wounded. The survivor can do nothing about this. It feels vastly unfair. The comparisons to legion are superficial at best and disingenuous at worst. Legion has to actually traverse to your location, has to respect pallets and can be stunned out of power. Ghoul literally vaguely looks in your direction and half the chase is over.
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Exposed means downed even when healthy, and mending, you can still waste the killer's time if you're decent at looping and mindgames. That's a big difference in a game where time means everything.
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That isn't my clip btw, I should've emphasized that better. Either way, shouldn't the "gymnastics" be incentivized? It's FAR more skilful and engaging than the boring default "eat stun > scamper" play.
**edited
And yes, after the survivor dropped the pallet they didn't have many great options, if you know the map well its a very isolated loop and death if the killer plays it well. But her being in that position in the first place was likely a misplay or last resort.
Positioning, planning and pathing is how you counter his movement. It also comes down to A LOT of mind games and 50/50s, same for most M2 killers.0 -
I said it is essentially being exposed, not factually being exposed. Then I explained why it's functionally the same thing. Your rebuttal is.... Nothing. "Just loop lol". Obviously impossible versus this broken killer, especially with one health state.
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Uhhh sure? I reckon you should have to weeble wop around the map to get a down as ghoul. Why not?
Unfortunately that's not the case. The person in the clip did all kinds of unnecessary stuff in order to illustrate "skillful" play. All they had to do was scamper. That's it. I'd argue this isn't even skillful, it's tantamount to if the blight could rush right next to you and cancel the rush instantly.
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It's still not essentially being exposed, since you can still loop and mindgame. If it was essentially being exposed, you wouldn't have even had the chance to be cut off like in the clip above and already have been on hook. And yes, that makes a big difference.
And no, I didn't say 'just loop' I said pay attention to what the Ghoul is doing to the best of your abilities. And as it was said before, that loop in particular is a bit of a death trap and yet I could still see where a survivor can waste more of the killer's time before going down had they played correctly.
Sometimes, in situations like that, wasting time is valuable for the others to do gens. Even if it's a few more seconds.-1 -
I would agree.
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Unfortunately I cannot draw you a crayon diagram to explain it but I'm gonna take your hand and walk you through it.
When you are exposed you take one hit and go down, yes? Are you in agreement? Good. When you are in mending you take one hit and go down. Yes? Are you following? It has nothing to do with mindgames or looping in either instance. Exposed does not hinder your looping and neither does mend. Do you comprehend this?
Wonderful. You're doing very very well.
Now ghoul looks at you from half the map away and puts you in mend. You have no agency in this. Even nurse has to line up a hit to take the health state. There is a degree of agency even there though not much. Ghoul provides ZERO agency in this. There is nothing a survivor can do to avoid being a one hit down. Considering his insane mobility and anti loop your counter looping options are extremely limited. You mindgame and leave loop. Ok, now he's on your ass cancel power and you're down. You mindgame and stun him. Ok he scampers the pallet and you're down. You take the long side of the loop ok he slings himself on your ass and you're down. Are the pieces of the puzzle coming together? Does the killer feel fair?
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Good to see we're both in agreement auto-aim is annoying, as per my first post had you read that.
Second, you're still not understanding. No matter how you view it, exposed =/= mend. You can play with crayons all you like to try and explain your reasoning, but the fact is you still have a chance to reach a loop and mindgame a ghoul as compared to being downed and hooked in relatively the same time.
Really, I'm just reading some defeatist takes on being put into mend. I'd recommend reading my first post.-1 -
We can have debates without being this condescending.
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This definetly looks like power to down survivors, so at that point he shouldn't have free hit at all… Whole premise for it is having problem with downs, but Kaneki doesn't have that..
He just shouldn't be able to ignore his dash+slide animation and cancel only after it. That would still make it viable for chase, just more difficult and double backing would actually work.3 -
The killer currently has 3 fairly significant issues:
- His grab attack after performing a leap has a hitbox that is too large, allowing him to hit you behind walls and obstacles.
- The kidnap tech has to go. It hasn't been confirmed as a bug, but it's definitely unintentional, so I think the devs are already aware of the problem.
- His power cancel into M1 is too generous, a problem already seen with other killers such as the old Billy, who had no cooldown after missing a chainsaw attack.
Other than that, I don't think there's anything else that needs to be addressed.
2 - His grab attack after performing a leap has a hitbox that is too large, allowing him to hit you behind walls and obstacles.
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Nah, ghoul needs to be nerfed very hard probably won't happen I don't even see them fixing any of the big concerns maybe next year or something.
Literally the best counterplay is to DC, sadly you can only do that imo if you're a full premade tho which kinda sucks.
I would rather play against blight all day than play against ghoul a few matches, what a joke of a killer.
At least blight can't ignore/attack through walls, stop you from moving, deep wounds FOR EVERYONE, being able to cancel his sprint and keep some of the momentum WHILE BEING MID FLIGHT, isn't as fast as the ghoul, actually has to bounce between surfaces, cant vault through window with his power, has aim assist on steroids.
I feel like ######### while playing him cause it has so little skill expression and its broken, playing against him is borderline unbearable cause of the same reasons, deserves a hard nerf hopefully soon.
Gotta nerf pig first tho especially considering she got buffed.
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With me? No. I don't have the patience to be sweet with folks that do not follow deductive reasoning and will not concede when they are incorrect. Kaneki is utterly busted for reasons I've illustrated. Accept it or don't.
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