http://dbd.game/killswitch
Bug Fix Status Update
Comments
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Why not fix fog vials before nerfing in multiple ways?
I think a large problem with them is the way the entire map can get more foggy after a fog vial is used once. Or the way on Switch a fog vial is used on the other side of the map by a teammate and I hear the fog noise, and I get surrounded by a cloud of fog and sometimes the fog keeps following me around for the rest of the match. It really sucks to have my audio and visibility messed up by a teammate using an item and I'm nowhere nearby.
Edit: Just in case fog vials are being fixed in the patch tomorrow, I want to clarify I mean fix them first, see how they perform, and then implement a nerf if necessary. But doing multiple things at once just makes it harder to pinpoint what change is having what effect.
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Why are all the fog vial nerfs involving the visual component?
There have been so many complaints about fog vials, and the majority of the complaints involve the survivor audio deletion, or the fact it blocks so many things at the same time (audio + auras + scratchmarks). I've seen so very few complaints about the visual component, besides the iri addon.
As in, it's still going to be miserable to play against fog vials, if we still can't hear survivor audio in the fog.
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Also guys make sure to read full patch notes since a lot way more has been fixed that has been happening too!
We should be more thankful and happy and not focus too much on fog vial opacity being reduced because Ryan said that its still trial and error new mechanic so changes are never final.
Make sure to go read full patch notes for tomorrow 6th of august.
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this doesn't feel like a response to our feedback. this feels like damage control after you ignored us for an extended period of time.
i understand sometimes this community will exaggerate a minor issue and that ignoring things will make them go away in a lot of cases. but YOU need to understand that sometimes, we actually are on to something. you need to develop the skills necessary to look at the problems that are occuring and make an objective decision about how impactful these problems are.
i'm sorry that the streetwise bug isn't something glaringly obvious like "this killer is accidentally giving people seisures" and required game knowledge to figure out the impact of. however, you should have that requisite game knowledge. you should be able to look at issues from the inside, where we are, and examine the projected impact that a bug like this can cause, using your own experiences of dead by daylight.
and if anyone, for some reason, felt like this would not become an issue for any number of reasons, then their game knowledge is lacking, and they need to care more.
dead by daylight IS a video game. it's also the livelihood of you and your streamers. people depend on the quality of dbd matches to be consistent without allowing broken perks to create outlier games that give people advantages they shouldn't have. and you, community managers and developers, need to understand that there IS a huge portion of people who take this game personally, and who will take advantage of broken and rogue elements specifically to try to ruin the other side's day.
i don't want you to tell me that this is a response to our feedback. i want the case where the next time something like this happens (because it almost certainly will happen again), you listen the FIRST time you are told and you DO SOMETHING about it.
also, don't give me that about "your expectations of the killswitch are different than ours". our expectation of the killswitch is that you use it to protect the integrity of the game, and you chose repeatedly not to protect the integrity of everyone's dbd matches (which, need i remind you, now use mmr).
what was the point of not using it? because the game would technically function, so it was ok to have none of the matches be worth playing? these bugged perks are making the game unfun, unenjoyable, and unplayable. all of my friends decided to spend the week (the LAUNCH WEEK OF THE WALKING DEAD CROSSOVER, btw) playing marvel rivals because you would not make the obvious move of killswitching it. and to be honest, i might not even pick dbd back up right away after this.
i'm seriously scorned by how the community managers have behaved during this. if you don't have the requisite game knowledge to know when to take us seriously, then boot up the video game and find out for yourself. hell, just boot it up anyway and look at how bad the problem is yourself. exploit the bugged perks. dbd games are so short, you literally could have had the first hand experience required to say "oh, yeah this is ruining the game" in one hour per perk. this is your job. even if you don't want to do it, can't you at least listen to your fog whisperers and twitch partners to inform your opinions? it's just negligent, and makes me feel like you're phoning it in. you are paid to be our liaisons, you should NEVER be dismissing us without investigating.
do better.
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Did you read entire patch notes?
There is way more than just fog vial, and killswitch in the tomorrows update.
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i'm not talking about fog vials. did you read the entire post?
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I agree. They act like it is a broken item and it's used consistently in every match. I've played for 6 hours today and I've only come across four games where they were actually used. 🤦
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They downvoted him for speaking the truth. My only addition to this is that they did also avoid killswitching Trickster for his epilepsy concerns, and Orela's Rift outfit is still glitched with epilepsy concerns when carrying.
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On the topic of the expectations of the killswitch being different - you later in the post say the purpose is to protect the integrity of matches.
IF, hypothetically, BHVR's intention with the killswitch is to protect the game from bugs that affect the game's stability - IE, stuff like release Circle of Healing crashing the game to the desktop when used - would that not be covered by different expectations?
I would agree that it should also cover bugs like this Streetwise one where a competitive advantage can be unfairly obtained, but that seems to me to be the literal definition of a differing expectation.
I expect - or at least think, and would argue in favour of - competitive integrity being important enough to warrant the killswitch in addition to its original purpose.
BHVR expected, past tense, to use the killswitch to protect the game from crashing or trials to become unplayable (literally, not because the opposing team has an unfair advantage).Hearing that BHVR are willing to revisit their initial expectation - if I'm understanding what it was correctly, at least - and bring the killswitch more in line with what I and many others believed it should be used for is a pretty good answer to the community's position and outrage here, in my opinion.
I'm all for criticising BHVR's missteps but what they're doing here is a step in the right direction.-1 -
I did read the entire post, you explained it in a way where you say it in a way that paints them like they did not do anything but this pretty much sums up most bugs and the fixes for them
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Respectfully disagree on that. That's actually one of the ways I was trying to use it, as a kind of mini sabo action, or to get a gen that was almost done off a killers radar for a second. The balance in that is that auras were also concealed from survivors, which caused me some issues on the survivor end.
As killer, I usually already have a hook scoped out. So it's kinda easy to dodge if you stay aware.
But I think the whole idea with the vial was to get creative with the usage, which makes it fresh and different.
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Fog Vials shouldn't be removing the auras of hooks. I don't think this is intended, and instead is an oversight. Fog Vials absolutely should not be a "mini sabo" that has near zero risk for the survivor.
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You don't like it so no one should have it?
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They're commenting on their lack of action and attitude towards the community before this hot fix announcement. Yes BHVR is doing something about it, but they should have not dismissed the community and kept the door shut about the hot fix. It is not the first time they've done this. Its great that they're working on it but it should have never come to this in the first place.
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I know but they were even slower before and got better at it later on in present and yes at the current state of game with such popularity it should be even faster and more professional that all stands but again yes i am aware what their response was initially to streetwise.
But finally it caught up with them and they saw it the way we do
Also P.S im on the consumer side too, it wasnt pleasent for me either playing the state of game right now.
There has been few fixes in the patch notes that fully make the game playable for me as a killer and a survivor too
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this is a fun hypothetical but unfortunately in the official kill switch post, they say this:
"The Kill Switch is a recent feature added to Dead by Daylight. It gives us the ability to temporarily switch off any items/offerings/maps/cosmetics/characters that are causing game breaking issues in the game, to ensure continued enjoyment."
'continued enjoyment' implies that it's not just about things that make the game technically unresponsive; it is also about ensuring that the game remains enjoyable.
my expectations are that they killswitch perks that aren't performing as intended if these perks make the game less fun, as bhvr themselves outlined.
so, it's kind of their fault that they forgot what the killswitch was for.
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It's so good to hear that. Would you consider updating decreased fog offerings to apply to fog vials as well and give them to Killers as an option? Some people in the community have visibility issues with fog, in addition to some of the killer roster that naturally struggle with visibility as is, especially your short ones. I've also seen some suggestions that Shadowborn could be updated to include aura reading in thick fog, which would be fun to see. Having a Perk update to offer more options to play with and against this new item would be very exciting!
I'm hoping the various audio bugs and environmental bugs will be addressed in a future patch. Survivors sounds aren't accurate even when not in fog. You can get caught on literal air just by walking around the map or up stairs. Xeno's chrysalis skin can't hear generator progress in tunnels and Xeno as a whole gets caught on air when exiting a tunnel and M1ing a couple seconds after.
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I don't know, they specify game-breaking here, that's a pretty vague term with two general definitions… and those two definitions are pretty in line with the two expectations that are laid out.
"To ensure continued enjoyment" seems like general video game PR speak, which I mean very neutrally here. That's just sort of how these things are written, the part that conveys more information to me is the phrase "game breaking".
In this context I'd personally interpret that to mean "so you can continue playing the video game", not "so the video game continues to be enjoyable to you personally". There are some people who probably were enjoying having access to the bug, after all.I'd also highlight that "make the game less fun" is extremely subjective, that clearly can't be their main criteria here. That'd mean also listening to the people who ask for perks that are just too strong or just kinda annoying to be killswitched, and that seems like a giant overreach to me.
I also think that this very conversation highlights even more that clearly there's some wires getting crossed between different people's interpretation of the killswitch.
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I appreciate the response and empathetic way in which the faults in communication have been acknowledged.
If a message like this after the chapter was released was made earlier with acknowledgement and killswitching, the outcry would probably be far less to just frustrations over the bugs.
I appreciate with new engines come new problems. Just please remember errors occur, but it's how you deal with them which matters more.
Thank you, and I won't whinge further on the subject.
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Ryan did confirm that he will send it to the team that they should have a system to report a perk, this should be really good for the game as a whole community for both players and devs after each update we can then report either an item or a perk from match result screen.
Im just happy since it should have been in the game since the start
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Thank you! 👍️
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I don't think it did finally get them because this is all just a repeat of past events. This isn't the first time a patch has been busted. This isn't the first time a representative of BHVR displayed this attitude towards the community, and this isn't the first set of plans that'll fix what should have never broken. While some of us may be coming off as harsh or even rude towards the studio, its for good reason. Maybe this time will be the last time they display this attitude but for right now we have to be critical. We can't give them flowers for this but we can appreciate that they're doing something about it.
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This is just embarassing
You're doing more damage than good. The game is dying because of your constant pandering to egotistical cry baby killer mains.
The game is already easy for them and as soon as something new comes along you need it to uselessness to appease them whilst maintaining a miserable survivor experience.
Distortion? Gutted to make it worthless and at the same time add a perk that gives more aura read if you have the audacity to escape a chase.
Fog vials. Weren't even that good but incoming cry means need to useless.
Yet ghoul, clown, mastermind, nemesis, huntress all broken and you leave it as is.
Get a back bone and sort it out or you will kill the game for good
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The team on forums has nothing to do with actual final decisions they stated they are messangers and middle-men to send in information.
He literally stated these changes are not final they are literally experimenting the fog vial still.
And killer related they stated they are fully aware but deciding for final decision before pulling the plug on ghoul.
Its eventually coming yeah thats the only downside.
I myself am really happy about the 9.1.1 fixes since recent patch notes ive been fairly miserable.
They are also working on a proper mmr system overhaul to help balance the game so it will be easier to not GUT the perks items and other stuff in game
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I need to know why Nemmy is among a list of killers you think are absolutely gamebreakingly OP, because I think that might be a sentence no one has ever uttered in the history of ever.
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I dont think the problem was that the moderator in question downplayed people's experience, its that people have not been showing the problem to be be a significant advantage. I understand it doesnt matter if the perk did or did not have the advantage if the majority of players think a perk should be killswitched then they will force you to do it, not by showing the perk to be exploited for advantage but by shear public outcry.
I hope next time there is a problem that people will spend more time demonstrating that the perk is giving significant advantage instead of complaining on the forums. In my personal experience its been ineffective. So I hope these killswitches have been done for good reason and not just because of the outcry.
Anyway, if you are going away from Fog Vials being infinite I think then you should hold back on nerfing them too much.
Since they have to compete with other items for usefulness still.-3 -
Is this a joke?
Killers have perma aura read already. Survivors get given a counter and you want the ability to see auras in the counter too?
Ok ok sure you have that if they put distortion back with 4 tokens.
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Where did I say overpowered?
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Not the CM, but do you have a link to the proper bug report thread? I have a Legion player I may ask to test it once the patch goes live.
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Music to my ears…Good news all around, issues being fixed, more transparency in the future, tensions going back down. While there's still work to do, this is a great update overall.
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I don't think something should exist in the game if it actively causes the removal of counterplay to an entire section of survivor gameplay for the killer side… yes.
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And that only applies to the killer perspective? It's cool for a killer to slug and run?
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That's a conclusion you reached on your own. Nowhere did I say that (it's also not even remotely comparable??? idk what you tried here).
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You're right, it's not comparable. Slugging is way worse. At least when there's some mist for a few seconds the killer can still act and make choices. But if you want to talk about disengaging tactics, there's this one very common one that is still going unaddressed. Meanwhile, Fog Vials have been out for two weeks and are getting nerfed because killers are crying about it.
And it is a form of counterplay. I'm using it to win chases by making turns they're not predicting. Not everyone wants to run in a circle until they get whacked. This is a potential way to end a chase differently.
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Thank you. I very much appreciate the follow-up and I'm glad that action is being taken now. Hopefully this can be a learning experience.
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Disappointed about fog vials. As killer i think they're fine and actually preferable to flashlights, toolboxes, and medkits. Nerfs mean survivors will just stop bringing them and go back to the same old stuff. I have both hearing and vision issues (my dad passed on amazing genetics!) and I still think they're fine as is, personally.
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Great news glad the team decided to take action and Kill Switch the perks. Look forward to future info on the new process.
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To be fair, this can be used as a criticism for Nurse. She can bypass every kind of counter play. I am not against adjustments being made to the fog vials, but this feels much too soon. People are quite vocal about allowing new killers some time for people to adjust and learn counterplay before they are nerfed, I don’t understand why this same approach should not be taken for the fog vials.
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Thank you to the whole team for the quick turnaround on the Streetwise issue! And another thank you for reworking the killswitch system! Hopefully it will allow for faster responses to problems in the future.
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I think you've misunderstood my entire point. I don't care about fog vials, I care that their existence removed the entire counterplay to items, that being franklin's. That is not comparable to slugging existing, because slugging still has counterplay.
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I agree with you that the term "game-breaking" is vague without more context, but based on their past use of the kill switch, I personally think it's pretty clear that they use the kill switch in situations where either definition applies.
Not only have they used the kill switch many times in the past when something directly impacted game stability, they've also kill switched many bugged perks, add-ons, and killers that provided a massive unintended advantage to players despite those unintentional advantages leaving the game in a technically playable state.
However, I'm glad that they're going to clarify the criteria for kill switching something in the future.
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- Fog Vials will also be adjusted to add a limit to their uses in a Trial, moving away unlimited uses.
Don't. After the Nerfs fog vials Will BE rather useless in most Maps
Also dead man switch Nerfs when?
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So you give survivors something fun and useful for the first time in years only to take it away a week later because killer mains with 70%+ kill rate complained about survivors having any form of counterplay.
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Seems to me like making the cooldown longer would be the most obvious solution, I'm puzzled how they didn't think of that.
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Sorry, will there be a fix around the palette regarding knight guards?
I can see if you try it at Midwich Elementary, for example, it follows the survivor through an apparently unusual detour route and does not track the survivor until guards touch the pallet that was knocked down.
When I previously reported this via email, I received a response that it was a bug and would be fixed as soon as possible, but there is no indication that it will be fixed anytime soon.
Is it correct to say that you could not fix it, so you have forced it to be a specification?0 -
unsure as to why fog vials are getting a nerf when they aren’t that good anyways?
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What specifically is changing in your development process to address the poor release quality? We've heard this apology multiple times over the years. Anyone remember the Twins release? What changes are you actually making?
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Please fix Spirit animation!!!!
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